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Differences between Orthodox and Roman Catholicism 2.0

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Moros

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The Christian Church, which was founded on Pentecost, 33 AD, was united until 1054 AD, when the Patriarchates of Constantinople (East Rome) and Rome (West) parted ways, (known today as "The Great Schism of 1054") by way of mutual excommunication over theological disputes, the most serious of them being unacceptable claims from the West of Papal supremacy over the entire Church.

The other three Patriarchates (Antioch, Alexandria, and Jerusalem) remained in union with Constantinople. The West became the Roman Catholic Church, the East became The Eastern Orthodox Church.

However, The Church, the Body of Christ, can not be divided. The Church of Rome did not split the Church. She left it.

Today there are 15 "self-governing church bodies," and 4 "autonomous groups," plus Moscow, the fifth Patriarchate.

The Autocephalous Churches are: Russia, Romania, Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, Georgia, Poland, Cyprus, Czechoslovakia, Albania, and Sinai. All canonical Orthodox Churches are in full Communion with one another. The Russian Church is the largest with 88 million members.

Some Eastern groups are not in Communion with Canonical Orthodoxy, because of their denial of the Council of Chalcedon which defined Christ as having two natures: God and Man. These "Monophysites" place emphasis on Christ's Divine nature.

These groups include:
The Copts of Egypt, the Church of Armenia, (which belongs to Oriental rather to Eastern Christianity) The Church of Ethiopia, the Church of the Assyrians, the Indian Orthodox Church, (also Oriental) and several others.

Orthodoxy has no central authority. (Example: The Pope)

No one claims to be Apostolic successor to Peter. (Matt.16:19)

The Patriarch of Constantinople is first in honor among equals in jurisdiction. Before the schism, the Patriarch of Rome held this honor.

Church doctrine is defined by Ecumenical Councils. Orthodoxy follows the first 7 (pre-schism) Ecumenical Councils. Some say there have been an 8th and 9th, but the Church does not officially address them as such. After the schism, Rome began creating and altering doctrine without Ecumenical Councils, alienating relations between the two sects and further preventing any reunification.

Recently, the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople (First Among Equals) BARTHOLOMEW I has been sending heavy overtones of unification to Rome, angering the Orthodox community.

However, the Church can not be doctrinally re-united until the Catholic Church completely revokes all doctrine from 1054 to present day, or, until the Orthodox Church accepts 950 years of invalid Council and doctrine. Neither are very likely to happen any time soon.

Here are the Catholic innovations which validify them as a separate sect of Christianity.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) Orthodox do not recognize the ideas of:

A) Papal Primacy of Jurisdiction -
During and after the schism, the Roman Catholics began creating and altering doctrine outside of the authority of an Ecumenical Council, using the "Pope" as an infallible final authority and then made unacceptable claims of supremacy over the entire Church.

All Orthodox Bishops are equal; Bishops are subordinate to the Pope in Catholicism. Bishops do not have the authority to make binding decisions of faith for Orthodox Christians in jurisdictions outside of their own, except when done in an Ecumenical Council.

A Primate (Metropolitan/Patriarch) has no authority over any of his brother Bishops except for the right to take the seat of honor at a Council. This being said, Patriarchs can not simply issue declarations of matters of faith the way the Pope does. Declarations of faith may only de done by means of a Council.

The Patriarch of Rome held the honor of First Among Equals before the schism of 1054, after Rome left the Church, that honor went to the Patriarch of Constantinople. The Pope of Rome has no say in official Orthodox Church matters.

B) Papal Infallibility -
Belief that the Pope is incapable of error.

C) The Filioque -
Catholic doctrine which states the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son. Orthodox view procession of the Holy Spirit as from the Father alone. This issue is not entirely theological - another reason for Orthodox rejection of the Filioque is that the original form of the Nicene Creed which was defined at Ecumenical Council can not be changed, at least not without another Council. The Filioque was introduced into the Creed without the authority of an Ecumenical Council. The addition of the Filioque to the Nicene Creed opposes the teaching of the Bible, the Ecumenical Councils, the Didaskalia of the Fathers and the tradition of the Church.

D) The Theotokos (Mary) -
Orthodox venerate Her as the Mother of God and the ever-virgin; two dogmas proclaimed before the schism. Orthodox do not follow the other 3 dogmas proclaimed after 787, which are: the Assumption, the Immaculate Conception, and Mother of the Church.

E) The Immaculate Conception -
This is a result of the flawed teaching of Original Sin. Catholics believe Mary to have been born protected by God from the soul stain of "Original Sin," A fairly new Catholic belief.

F) Original Sin -
Catholic belief that all men are born with the inherited guilt of Adam.
Orthodox do not believe men are born guilty of the sin of Adam.

G) We do not believe that it is necessary to describe the mystery of the Eucharist using the term "Transubstantiation."
See: #3

H) The Vernacular -
We have always believed that the Divine Liturgy should be prayed in the language of the people, whereas Rome for over 500 years insisted on the universal use of the Latin language, even after the majority of people had stopped speaking Latin. However, the language and liturgy served in a Church can vary, depending on the choices and blessing of the Bishop. The usual Sunday service is the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.

I) We do not see sin as being Mortal/Venial

J) Purgatory -
The "purifying fire." Another Roman innovation. Orthodox Christians do not believe in repentance in the afterlife, but rather in a state of "repose" until judgment.

Purgatory is a condition of the departed before the final judgment. According to Roman Catholic theology, those souls destined for heaven (with a few exceptions) must endure a state of purgation, or purification. They must be cleansed of the sins committed on earth. The rest go to hell for eternal punishment.

Moreover, from a "treasury" of merits or extra grace accumulated by the virtue of Christ, the Virgin Mary and the Saints, "Indulgences" may be granted. The grace is applied to those in Purgatory in order to shorten their time there.

Orthodoxy teaches that after the soul leaves the body, it journeys to the abode of the dead (Hades). There are exceptions, such as the Theotokos, who was borne by the angels directly into heaven. As for the rest, we must remain in this condition of waiting. Because some have a prevision of the glory to come and others foretaste their suffering, the state of waiting is called "Particular Judgment."

When Christ returns, the soul rejoins its risen body to be judged by Him. The "good and faithful servant" will inherit eternal life, the unfaithful with the unbeliever will spend eternity in hell. Their sins and their unbelief will torture them as fire.

Purgatory is usually written off as a result of invalid Council and minimal Biblical support.

K) We do not accept the ideas of Mary being Co-Redemptrix or Mediatrix of All Graces -
Christ was sent to redeem our sins, not the Theotokos.

L) Indulgences -
See: I: Purgatory.

M) Clergy Marriage -
Orthodox clergy are allowed to be married, even before Ordination. Latin-Rite Catholic clergy are not. However, Non-Latin Rite Catholic priests may be married. Orthodox are also allowed to live and work outside of the Church with their families, whereas Catholics must live in the sanctuary and survive on a stipend. Sexual molestation in the Catholic Church is a very serious issue, and while these things sadly also happen in the Orthodox Church, they do not happen with such alarming frequency as in the RCC. What is even more alarming and shocking is that these priests are being protected at even the highest levels of Roman Catholic hierarchy. Both Orthodox and Catholics condemn fornication outside of marriage.

N) Divorce and Re-Marriage -
Catholics have been allowing divorce since Vatican II. However, Catholics who divorce and re-marry without observing the Church's canons are denied the Communion. At an Orthodox wedding, you receive a "crowning ceremony." This joins you and your spouse in spirit. You can get divorced and remarry, but you only get one crowning ceremony. Re-marriages are essentially a formality to allow for procreation.

O) Statues and Crucifixes -
Orthodox use "Icons" for prayer, which are two-dimensional, written and blessed "windows into Heaven." An Icon is an artistic depiction of Christ, the Theotokos, or the Saints. God the Father may not be portrayed, because He has never been seen. They are two dimensional because Icons are to portray spiritual truths and not to focus on physical attributes. Icons are not worshipped, but venerated.

Catholics use 3D statuettes of Christ, the Theotokos, and the Saints. This is forbidden by Lev. 26:1.

3D renderings of Christ are strictly forbidden. Thus, Orthodox do not wear crucifixes. We also have jewelry depicting the Crucifixion, but the Corpus is generally two dimensional and flat.

P) Prayer Positions -
The preferred position of Orthodox prayer is standing. We also bow from the hip, and prostrate. (Bow our foreheads to the floor.) This may look surprising at first, because the Muslims stole this method from the Church. Also like Muslims, we build our churches towards and pray - facing the east. Unlike Catholics, Orthodox only kneel on occasion for certain Holy Days, whereas Catholics kneel regularly.

Q) Saints -
Orthodox and Catholics share the same pre-schism Saints and Doctors. Today our common Saints are few and far between.

R) Holy Days -
Catholics have their own Feasts and Fasts which are not shared by Orthodox. We share the same pre-schism Holy Days.

S) Triclavianism -
Orthodox believe 4 nails were used to affix the Lord to His Cross. One in each hand, one in each foot. Catholics believe 3 nails were used. One in each hand, and one through both feet, with no foot-board, or, failing that; a small block at the bottom. We believe in a three bar Cross. The first bar being the sign which was hung over His head, (depicted in Catholic imagery as saying Jesus Christ, King of the Jews. Orthodox Iconography says "King of Glory") the horizontal beam which His arms were attached to, and a tilted foot-board which His feet were nailed to.

Holy tradition says that at the moment of Christ's death, His legs went into spasm causing the board to be forced up on the right and down on the left, creating a diagonal direction of the foot board and, at the same time, showing the judgment of the two thieves, the one on the right inheriting Paradise and the one on the left condemning himself to hell. Hence, the tilted foot-board in Orthodox Iconography. Eastern-Rite Catholics also have a three bar Cross, but the foot-board is horizontal. These horizontal foot board depictions appeared much later.

This would not be much of a big deal if tradition did not play such a huge part in the Church.

Minor Differences -
Catholic Cardinals wear skullcaps. Orthodox do not.
Orthodox tend to glorify the Resurrection rather than the Crucifixion. Catholics tend to focus on the torture and execution of Christ.
In the Orthodox Liturgy, the "bread" of the Eucharist is "leavened," (zyme) in the Roman Catholic Mass it is "unleavened" (azyme).
Orthodox do not fast on Saturday (except Holy Saturday) or Sunday. Roman Catholics do not have this restriction.
Orthodox do not kneel on Sunday; Roman Catholics do. Orthodox have no "Stations of The Cross;" Roman Catholics do.
Orthodox presbyters and deacons may marry before ordination; Roman Catholic clergy are celibate. Roman Catholic Deacons may be married.
There are no orders of Orthodox monks (male and female) as there are among Roman Catholics (Jesuits, Dominicans, Benedictines, Cistercians, etc.). More recently, many Roman Catholic monks and nuns have also put away their traditional habits.
Orthodox clergy wear beards; Papist clergy are generally beardless.
A Catholic Priest faces the congregation while at the altar, whereas the Orthodox Priest faces away. It should be noted that before Vatican II, Catholic priests also faced away from the congregation.
There are no musical instruments in Orthodox Liturgy.
With rare exceptions, such as an Abbess or a woman designated by an Abbess to clean, women are not allowed in an Orthodox Sanctuary where the altar is located.
The Orthodox Theology is "apophatic", stressing what is not known, rather than "kataphatic", emphasizing what is known.

2) We reject the Scholastic attempt to explain all matters of faith which was employed by the likes of Thomas Aquinas.

To the Orthodox, Sacraments are a mystery. Attempts at explaining away what happens during a sacrament are therefore not made.

3) Orthodox place a much heavier emphasis on the teachings and writings of the Apostolic and Church fathers and the 7 Ecumenical Councils than the Roman Catholics.
 

Kripost

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.....(depicted in Catholic imagery as saying Jesus Christ, King of the Jews. Orthodox Iconography says "King of Glory") the horizontal beam which His arms were attached to, ......

The liturgy booklet I have says that in the Orthodox Church, the Crucifix behind the altar has, on the board above Jesus' head, an inscription which reads "I.N.B.I". which stands for "Ιησουσ ο Ναζωραιος ο Βασιλευς των Ιουδαιων", which translates as "Jesus Nazarene, King of Jews".
 
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Oblio

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The top bar is the title-board which Pilate ordered to be hung in mockery over Christ’s head on the Cross. On this board was inscribed: "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews" in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin (abbreviated to the Greek initials ‘INBI’ or the Latin initials ‘INRI’ in the Western tradition). This is replaced with the Christian inscription: "King of Glory" – below the knees of the angels. On the title-board is inscribed the initials 'IC XC', being the first and last letters of Christ’s name in Greek. In addition, just above Christ's arms we see the inscription: ‘NIKA’, which in Greek means: "He conquers" or "He is victorious." Frequently, we see these last two inscriptions together: 'IC XC NIKA', meaning: "Jesus Christ is victorious" (over death and sin).

From An Explanation of the Russian Orthodox Three-Bar Cross

Note: This is from an Old Believer site, but as far as I can tell the Cross portions are 'Orthodox'
 
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Momzilla

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Bruncvik said:
Orthodox do not fast on Saturday (except Holy Saturday) or Sunday. Roman Catholics do not have this restriction.

Is this correct? I'm very new to this fasting thing, but I seem to recall only lenten foods at coffee hour during Great Lent, which would certainly mean that the members of my parish kept the fast on weekends.
 
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Iacobus

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Momzilla said:
Is this correct? I'm very new to this fasting thing, but I seem to recall only lenten foods at coffee hour during Great Lent, which would certainly mean that the members of my parish kept the fast on weekends.

Well, its kind of relative. With rare exceptions, we do not strictly fast on weekends. That is why there is at least a partial lifting of the fast on Saturday and Sunday during Lent, at least to the extent of allowing wine and oil. We might also fast strictly on certain days even if they fall on a weekend, such as we did on September 14 of last year, the Elevation of the Cross. So its true as a general rule, but there are exceptions.

James
 
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Oblio

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KennySe said:
The title is as offensive to some readers as the alternate title "Differences between Greek Orthodox and Catholicism 2.0" might be to other readers.

But I wouldn't consider the term Greek Orthodox offensive :)

I understand your point somewhat, however are all Catholics offended by this ? Even ones who say things like:

There's no place like Rome
There's no place like Rome
There's no place like Rome ...


And Ecumenically speaking as an Orthodox :eek:, Catholics are/were (depending on your personal viewpoint) under the Patriarch of Rome.
 
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Kripost

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Momzilla said:
Is this correct? I'm very new to this fasting thing, but I seem to recall only lenten foods at coffee hour during Great Lent, which would certainly mean that the members of my parish kept the fast on weekends.

I remember when I was having coffee with an Orthodox family after the Liturgy during Lent, they ordered soy milk instead of milk. They did say it was part of the fast.
 
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KennySe

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Oblio said:
But I wouldn't consider the term Greek Orthodox offensive :)

I understand your point somewhat, however are all Catholics offended by this ? Even ones who say things like:

There's no place like Rome
There's no place like Rome
There's no place like Rome ...

No, the term does not offend all Catholics. I said "some readers".

I imagine that some Orthodox readers might be offended by the term "Greek Orthodox", as though Orthodoxy is limited to Greece.

And to say There's no place like Rome
There's no place like Rome
There's no place like Rome ...
, one must be wearing ruby slippers, which I was, when I wrote that. :pink:


And Ecumenically speaking as an Orthodox :eek:, Catholics are/were (depending on your personal viewpoint) under the Patriarch of Rome.

True, ecumenically speaking Catholics are under the Patriarch of Rome.

Catholically speaking, Catholics are in full communion with the Chair of Peter, which is in Rome.
 
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Amandine

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Bruncvik said:
Some Eastern groups are not in Communion with Canonical Orthodoxy, because of their denial of the Council of Chalcedon which defined Christ as having two natures: God and Man. These "Monophysites" place emphasis on Christ's Divine nature.
You do remember how that's not true, right?

H) The Vernacular -
We have always believed that the Divine Liturgy should be prayed in the language of the people
Then why do Russians use Church Slavonic and Greeks use liturigical Greek still? I wouldn't exactly call it the vernacular...especially the first.

Orthodoxy teaches that after the soul leaves the body, it journeys to the abode of the dead (Hades). ...Because some have a prevision of the glory to come and others foretaste their suffering, the state of waiting is called "Particular Judgment."
I thought after we all were in God's light/fire...It seems that Orthodox have a concept of purgation as well, just not as doctrine. I think you need to recant this statement Bruncvik.

At an Orthodox wedding, you receive a "crowning ceremony." This joins you and your spouse in spirit. You can get divorced and remarry, but you only get one crowning ceremony. Re-marriages are essentially a formality to allow for procreation.
Huh? Joined in SPIRIT? What about a widow that gets remarried? After 7 times is she still joined in spirit to that first husband? *cough cough...you get what I'm referring to?* Yes, I please ask someone to explain this to me.

Catholics use 3D statuettes of Christ, the Theotokos, and the Saints. This is forbidden by Lev. 26:1.

3D renderings of Christ are strictly forbidden. Thus, Orthodox do not wear crucifixes. We also have jewelry depicting the Crucifixion, but the Corpus is generally two dimensional and flat.
Really? I've never heard of this....and anyway, that bible verse could be also seen to aply to icons.

Orthodox only kneel on occasion for certain Holy Days, whereas Catholics kneel regularly.
Oh the horror...yes, this is definitely worthy of note, how can they fall into such grave error?

Orthodox do not fast on Saturday (except Holy Saturday) or Sunday. Roman Catholics do not have this restriction.
Uh, no and no. As others have pointed out Orthodox do fast some on Saturdays and Sundays, like during LENT. As a contrast, Catholics are encouraged NOT to fast on Sunday, because it is a rememberance of the Ressurection.

Just a few things to note and question.
-Catherine
 
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Cradle

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To fully understand the Concept "Greek Orthodox" think about the word Greek, not as a country but more as a school of thought and to some extent the language which can be seen across the church. In this sense that the various bodies the Russian, the Romanian, the Syrian, the Serbian etc may be referred to as Greek with out them losing their national character and traditions, or their geographical and cultural identities.

From http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/yourlondon/unitedcolours/orthodox/welcome_history.shtml

It's a point of view, not necessarily shared by all Orthodox, but it might give a hint why non-greek Orthodox are not necessarily offended when called "Greek Orthodox".
 
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Oblio

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Oblio said:
I pondered this Kenny, but then I realized that not all 'some readers' were necessarily Catholic. Hence my question :)


I even confused myself ^_^

What I meant to say was that I was unsure if by 'some readers' you meant 'Catholics' or 'some Catholic readers' :)
 
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