Difference between Fundamentalist and Conservative Christians?

[Albion]

Yet I find that most fundamentalist do adhere to 'tradition'.

I know that you didn't invent it, but that claim is really more of a taunt than anything else. Protestants, for rejecting Tradition as an alternative to Holy Writ, are often attacked by Catholics here on CF in a predictable way--accuse us of doing exactly what we criticize in our opponents.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

First, a shout out to several old friends here, friends I haven't talked to for a long time.

And as to the distinction between conservative Christians and fundamentalist Christians, I can qualify for the first but not the second. I am orthodox according to the historic Creeds and the "Five Fundamentals" but I don't hold with militancy or separation, and I'm prima scriptura rather than sola scriptura. I'm also rather fond of Desmalia's bete noir, postmodernism. I love her dearly, but that's something we'll never agree on.

Also, the culture of American fundamentalist Christianity, and for that matter conservative evangelicalism as well, is heavily influenced by the Yankee Puritan and Southern Redneck cultures, and that's a mixed set of traditions I'm not comfortable with. That's a large part of why I left AoG for the Anglican tradition. The Santorum campaign was probably the last straw.

He's a good guy and I like him personally, but he's such a Catholic theonomist, and so much of his support came from conservative evangelicals and fundamentalists (I don't know about here, but he was very popular on an IFB board I sometimes frequent.) And, well, I identify with the political Right, but the liberarian Right. I abhor dominionism and theonomy, and didn't want to be associated with them at all.

 

[TrutherAU]

How can one be a conservative christian at time in human history when conservatives not just liberals are politically speaking falling more and more intune with secular philosophies.
In revelations, and various other gospels jesus and the apostles point out that a time will come when Man centred authorities will persecutes christians and enforce satans philosophies & will over and above Gods will.
If one was to follow the true definition of being a conservative they would place priority in following the law of the land well above following Gods law. So clearly on the face of it at least, it appears to be two different things conservatism and fundamentalism.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

How can one be a conservative christian at time in human history when conservatives not just liberals are politically speaking are more and more intune with secular philosophies.
In revelations, and various other gospels jesus and the apostles point out that a time will come when Man centred authorities will persecutes christians and enforce satans philosophies & will over and above Gods will.
If one was to follow the true definition of being a conservative they would place priority in following the law of the land well above following Gods law. So clearly on the face of it at least, it appears to be two different things conservatism and fundamentalism.

I think your question pretty much goes to a confusion between political and theological conservatism. It's the same word, but in those contexts it means very different things. Perhaps we shouldn't speak of conservatism when talking about theology, but should say orthodoxy instead. When I say I'm a conservative in a theological context, I just mean I adhere to historic Christian orthodoxy. It doesn't really say anything about my politics.

 

[TrutherAU]

Yes but one cannot serve both God & Mammon they will either choose one or the other. Point is politics and religion are not mutually exclusive especially not in the US ones politics definitely impacts their religious view and vice versa.
I am in Australia btw things very different in that regard here since most are only lip service christians and will choose politics and secular law every time over Gods law.

 

[Albion]

How can one be a conservative christian at time in human history when conservatives not just liberals are politically speaking falling more and more intune with secular philosophies.

Easy. Resist the trend.

In revelations, and various other gospels jesus and the apostles point out that a time will come when Man centred authorities will persecutes christians and enforce satans philosophies & will over and above Gods will.
If one was to follow the true definition of being a conservative they would place priority in following the law of the land well above following Gods law.

That's a novel interpretation. Actually, conservatives--politically or religiously defined--base their values on their understanding of God's will for mankind. IOW, you've got it backwards.

 

[Albion]

I think your question pretty much goes to a confusion between political and theological conservatism. It's the same word, but in those contexts it means very different things. Perhaps we shouldn't speak of conservatism when talking about theology, but should say orthodoxy instead instead. When I say I'm a conservative in a theological context, I just mean I adhere to historic Christian orthodoxy. It doesn't really say anything about my politics.

And if anyone checks the definition of the word as used in the Conservative Christians forum, you are exactly right!

 

[Albion]

Yes but one cannot serve both God & Mammon they will either choose one or the other.

No one has advocated that we serve Mammon, nor does the choice between conservatism and fuindamentalism involve the choosing of Mammon!

 

[cubanito]

I consider myself a Fundamentalist, and waay back was heavily involved in drafting the statements for this area of Christian Forums. I have not been active here for some time, due to personal business (aka service to Mammon), but back then I did make reference to the "Chicago Statements of the Fundamentals" as an excellent modern statement of Fundy principles, google it. I am quite content with the current definition, excet for the "Diety of Christ." I do not think I must eat the same diet Christ ate. The deity of Christ I do affirm, however.

Putting aside the fact that this thread seems to be fielding what is bordering on direct attacks on what we believe, I will try to answer. At least the questions were posed in a respectful manner, and that I greatly appreciate.

There are divisions among Fundys, while we hold each other to be True Christians, in my mind I separate Fundys into 3 general camps: 1) the Charismatics, 2) the Covenentals and 3) the Dispensationalists. I belong to the last group, and so will answer for that group alone. BTW I have been a member of the PCA for over a decade which is Covenetal, very active and voicing my differing viewpoints are strongly encouraged by the leadership. One can disagree without being disagreeable, and the differences are not central to salvation.

1- Traditions: I have nothing against human traditions, as long as they are completely subservient to Scripture and not binding upon my conscience. We all have traditions, like using forks at dinner instead of fingers. Traditions are only bad when they become idols, just like anything else. I enjoy Christmas, though not Santa claus, but I always remind my kids that Christ clearly was not born Dec 25. It does not bother me at all that it is a pagan Holy Day that got drafted. The Truth is clear to all in my household, and so we enjoy this ill timed Holyday with all the acutriments. There's even St Nick, but our statue shows an old man dressed in early medieval garb, and the kids know the real story.

2- Sundays: I count no day any different than any other day. I believe the Sabbath was fulfilled by Christ, and not binding on me at all. That I generally attend Church Wednsday at 6AM and Sunday morning is a matter of convenience and human tradition. As a dispensationalist, NONE of the OT commands are binding to me. So why am I not free to murder? Because in the NT we have new commands, most restatements of old commands, and those ARE binding on me.

3- Santorum and dominion ect.: I am not a political junkie, but I liked Santorum overall. When the perfect political candidate comes along, please drop me a note. In the meantime, I'll vote what seems will kill the fewest number of babies, shrink the Fed Govt and interfere least with my ability to live a peaceful life. Perhaps Santorum was evil incarnate, I just do not know, but seems a bit off topic to me.

JR

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I consider myself a Fundamentalist, and waay back was heavily involved in drafting the statements for this area of Christian Forums. I have not been active here for some time, due to personal business (aka service to Mammon), but back then I did make reference to the "Chicago Statements of the Fundamentals" as an excellent modern statement of Fundy principles, google it. I am quite content with the current definition, excet for the "Diety of Christ." I do not think I must eat the same diet Christ ate. The deity of Christ I do affirm, however.

Putting aside the fact that this thread seems to be fielding what is bordering on direct attacks on what we believe, I will try to answer. At least the questions were posed in a respectful manner, and that I greatly appreciate.

There are divisions among Fundys, while we hold each other to be True Christians, in my mind I separate Fundys into 3 general camps: 1) the Charismatics, 2) the Covenentals and 3) the Dispensationalists. I belong to the last group, and so will answer for that group alone. BTW I have been a member of the PCA for over a decade which is Covenetal, very active and voicing my differing viewpoints are strongly encouraged by the leadership. One can disagree without being disagreeable, and the differences are not central to salvation.

1- Traditions: I have nothing against human traditions, as long as they are completely subservient to Scripture and not binding upon my conscience. We all have traditions, like using forks at dinner instead of fingers. Traditions are only bad when they become idols, just like anything else. I enjoy Christmas, though not Santa claus, but I always remind my kids that Christ clearly was not born Dec 25. It does not bother me at all that it is a pagan Holy Day that got drafted. The Truth is clear to all in my household, and so we enjoy this ill timed Holyday with all the acutriments. There's even St Nick, but our statue shows an old man dressed in early medieval garb, and the kids know the real story.

2- Sundays: I count no day any different than any other day. I believe the Sabbath was fulfilled by Christ, and not binding on me at all. That I generally attend Church Wednsday at 6AM and Sunday morning is a matter of convenience and human tradition. As a dispensationalist, NONE of the OT commands are binding to me. So why am I not free to murder? Because in the NT we have new commands, most restatements of old commands, and those ARE binding on me.

3- Santorum and dominion ect.: I am not a political junkie, but I liked Santorum overall. When the perfect political candidate comes along, please drop me a note. In the meantime, I'll vote what seems will kill the fewest number of babies, shrink the Fed Govt and interfere least with my ability to live a peaceful life. Perhaps Santorum was evil incarnate, I just do not know, but seems a bit off topic to me.

JR

Hi, cubanito! Glad to see you're back!

I'm with you on Traditions and Sundays.

I don't think Santorum is a bad guy at all, but he's far too socially conservative for me to be happy with. I'll be voting for Gary Johnson on the Libertarian Party ticket (but if I lived in a state that was actually in play, I would go for Romney, because Obama is a leftist ideologue).

 

[lismore]

Tradition can nullify the word of God. Some tradition can be good but we should be ready to jettison any tradition that gets in the way.

 

[TrutherAU]

Easy. Resist the trend.

By staying in the same church which has now decided to incorporate secular or pagan ideas why would you feel comfortable in such an environ unless it was because you enjoy their company thus most likely becoming more like those you associate with whether you realise it or not. It kinda looks like saying you joined an outlaw biker club saying you will join the club keep their company but will not become like them well rubbish,ofcause you become like those you associate with.

That's a novel interpretation. Actually, conservatives--politically or religiously defined--base their values on their understanding of God's will for mankind. IOW, you've got it backwards.

Actually i meant conservative in the political sense what other meaning for conservative is there?
Maybe I should have made sure we were all on the same page with the word conservative. My question then is how can one be a political conservative and fundamentalist christian may be that would have been more accurate to this thread as a heading. Since i had thought conservative christian meant a christian that had GOP or libertarian political views.

No one has advocated that we serve Mammon, nor does the choice between conservatism and fuindamentalism involve the choosing of Mammon!

If we talking the difference between political conservative & fundamentalist christian then yes I believe there would be a conflict of interest between the two convictions.

 

[jpcedotal]

good thread...I always thought and still think fundies and conservatives go hand and hand...add to that the fact that both take the Bible literally and that sound like the right path for me...

Ya'll can can me either or both as long as you call me Christian first...ha

 

[Albion]

By staying in the same church which has now decided to incorporate secular or pagan ideas why would you feel comfortable in such an environ unless it was because you enjoy their company thus most likely becoming more like those you associate with whether you realise it or not.

Well, I didn't recommend staying in the same church under all circumstances, and certainly not the ones you enumerated. I said to resist the trend. That can be done, and it can be done in several ways.

Actually i meant conservative in the political sense what other meaning for conservative is there?

Tradition-oriented. Conventional. There is a forum for "Conservative Christians" here on CF, you know, and the definition arrived at by the members is there to read. Because you've raised this question, you might be interested in taking a look at it.

Maybe I should have made sure we were all on the same page with the word conservative. My question then is how can one be a political conservative and fundamentalist christian may be that would have been more accurate to this thread as a heading. Since i had thought conservative christian meant a christian that had GOP or libertarian political views.

You know that these terms are tricky and people see them in various ways, and I am just not sure what you're saying to me in that paragraph. Political conservatism and religious conservatism are closely aligned, and fundamentalism is a particular variety of religious conservatisml. Since the GOP is the more conservative of the two parties, they all tend to go together because the preservation of time-honored values as against rash innovation underlies all of them.

 

[cubanito]

Hi, cubanito! Glad to see you're back!

I'm with you on Traditions and Sundays.

I don't think Santorum is a bad guy at all, but he's far too socially conservative for me to be happy with. I'll be voting for Gary Johnson on the Libertarian Party ticket (but if I lived in a state that was actually in play, I would go for Romney, because Obama a leftist ideologue).

I do not know how long Mammon will let me off the treadmill that pays for my kid's education ect, but while I can.

I'm in Florida, so Romney is the least evil. Were I like you, I would do something similar.

JR Question authority, then respect it

 

[TrutherAU]

In regards to Libertarianism as ideal/philosophy which I understand is very popular and important to many Americans.Libertarianism actually has some very sinister roots heres an interesting article which explains why;

The Satanic Core of Libertarianism « The Daily Knell

 

[Albion]

In regards to Libertarianism as ideal/philosophy which I understand is very popular and important to many Americans.Libertarianism actually has some very sinisters roots heres an interesting article which explains why;

The Satanic Core of Libertarianism « The Daily Knell

I'm beginning to wonder if there is ANYTHING in life, from bicycles to vegetarianism, that has not resulted in someone creating a webpage in order to expose it as "Satanic."

And now there's someone who actually is trying to sell the idea that Freedom is Satanic? Good grief.

 

[Rhamiel]

i dunno if i saw a vegitable ridding a bicycle, i would think that was demonic....
....
oh I missread your post

 

[TrutherAU]

I'm beginning to wonder if there is ANYTHING in life, from bicycles to vegetarianism, that has not resulted in someone creating a webpage in order to expose it as "Satanic."

Yeh i guess most of these expose on satan this & satan that are mostly also american and since most of the conspiracy subcult in the US is Libertarian anyway. This one is giving them a dose of their own medicine only thing is its factual how can you dispute the article.

And now there's someone who actually is trying to sell the idea that Freedom is Satanic? Good grief.

Surely one mans freedom is another pain all relative. Try telling me that your idea of freedom is freedom to some american out of work living on food stamps. Ah but thats right according to pple like you God is really for the wealthy and will always find way to get the wealthy through the eye of that needle.

 

[Albion]

Yeh i guess most of these expose on satan this & satan that are mostly also american and since most of the conspiracy subcult in the US is Libertarian anyway. This one is giving them a dose of their own medicine only thing is its factual how can you dispute the article.

Well, you're the one lapping up this nonsense. We know better.

Surely one mans freedom is another pain all relative.

Uh, no.