Difference between 7th Day Adventists and Baptists?

[FaithfulPilgrim]

How do Seventh Day Adventists differ from Seventh Day Baptists?

 

[BobRyan]

How do Seventh Day Adventists differ from Seventh Day Baptists?

We join them in

1. having 66 books in the Bible.
2. Bible as the Word of God.
3. Sola Scriptura testing of all doctrine and tradition.
4. Ten Commandments still applicable to the saints. The moral law of God that defines sin as we see in Romans 7 and 3:19-21
5. Sabbath Commandment "unbent" - remains as it has always been and applies to mankind.
6. Believers Baptism.
7. Trinity
8. Saved by grace through faith and that not of works.
9. literal death burial and resurrection of Christ.
10. Literal second coming of Christ.
11. Literal 1000 year millennium.
12. Free will (I think SDB's accept the Bible doctrine on free will

...

Where we differ.

1. The Commandments and Sabbath play a key role in how the world ends and what the final issues are.
2. The wicked are not now in hell
3. Hell is the Rev 20 still-future lake of fire - and will not torture the wicked for all eternity - but is "finite" the length of time it will punish the wicked.
4. The 1 Cor 12 and Ephesians 4 list of spiritual gifts are still valid (except possibly for Apostles... no more Apostles).
5. The Sanctuary in heaven that you find in Hebrews 8 - is a much bigger deal than most realize. Pre-advent judgment of Daniel 7 is going on now.
6. People are not now - immortal - but will be some day.
7. The Three Angels messages of Rev 14 are the big deal - final end time warning that everyone should know about -- as in "forewarned is fore armed".
8. We are the 5th largest Christian denomination on the planet.
9. We live an average of 10 years longer than the average American.
10. Only eat the meats that the Lev 11 list approves us - avoid eating rats, cats, dogs bats etc.
11. Promote vegetarian diet as being the most healthful.
12. Have access to prophet writings specific to what is about to happen on planet earth.
13. Not sure if SDB are stuck on OSAS - but SDAs do support the OSAS ideas.
(There is probably more - but can't think of what it is off the top of my head)

SDB doctrine. -
http://seventhdaybaptist.org/about/statement-of-belief/

Here is a great link on the SDA denomination on this CF forum board
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...ut-gods-seventh-day-adventist-church.7926212/

 

[BobRyan]

BTW - the new move "Hacksaw Ridge" -- the soldier in question is SDA - it is about his non-combatant stand for helping and saving life - while serving his country in war.

 

[BobRyan]

How do Seventh Day Adventists differ from Seventh Day Baptists?

Here is another thread that pertains to this topic --

Jan 4, 2016 #1

 

[masmpg]

A bit of trivia about the seventh day Baptists and one Seventh day Adventist AT Jones, who stood side by side with the baptist for a time against senator Blair at the senate sub committee hearings on the national sunday law of the late 19th century. After a time, when the baptist was not able to support the truth Jones was promoting he left and Jones stood alone against the house and senate to prove the constitutionality of the SUNday law, and Jones with the help of the Holy Spirit defeated them. His book is awesome called "The National Sunday Law" by AT Jones.

 

[Dave-W]

Free will (I think SDB's accept the Bible doctrine on free will

The SBC used to have doctrine that supported free will. But in the last 20 years there has been an infiltration of Calvinists into the high levels of the denom and that doctrine seems to be in the process of changing.

But of course the Southern Baptist Conference is not the same as the Seventh Day Baptists. But what comes into the SBC seems to eventually work its way into the rest of the Baptist denoms.

 

[BobRyan]

Agreed that the Southern Baptist Convention is not the SDB - but it is also true that not all SBC's are Calvinist. as far as I know the only group that claims they are all Calvinists are Presbyterians.

 

[Dave-W]

but it is also true that not all SBC's are Calvinist.

Correct. It has been a struggle in the SBC between the Calvinists and the more traditional Baptists for a couple of decades now.

Of course the Baptist doctrine of OSAS makes them 1 point calvinists already.

as far as I know the only group that claims they are all Calvinists are Presbyterians.

Don't forget the Reform Church of America, Christian Reform Church and the Congregational churches. All firm calvinists.

 

[BobRyan]

I am wondering if an Arminian is in fact a 2.5 point Calvinist

1. We believe in depravity but not "total depravity" because we believe that the heart can be hardened - over time which means there is a "down" from where one starts off in life. "Total" Depravity implies "there is no down from here.".

2. We believe in limited atonement - once you include all the work of Christ as Lamb of God AND of Hebrews 8 - High Priest - in the complete global concept of "ATonement" as we see it in Lev 16. We believe in an unlimited "Atoning Sacrifice" but "limited atonement" in that all the wicked that go to the lake of fire are not fully atoned for .. rather they are paying their own debt of still-unforgiven sin - though it was already paid by Christ on the cross.

3. And we believe in the "Perseverance of the saints" -- in that all the saints in heaven will be able to point to some time of conversion where they "persevered firm until the end" from that time onward.

 

[Dave-W]

1. We believe in depravity but not "total depravity" because we believe that the heart can be hardened - over time which means there is a "down" from where one starts off in life. "Total" Depravity implies "there is no down from here.".

Yes that is an Arminian and Wesleyan stance. But "total depravity" as used by Calvinists means the inability to respond to the gospel message (even if you want to). We are just too depraved to be able to choose God.

2. We believe in limited atonement - once you include all the work of Christ as Lamb of God AND of Hebrews 8 - High Priest - in the complete global concept of "ATonement" as we see it in Lev 16. We believe in an unlimited "Atoning Sacrifice" but "limited atonement" in that all the wicked that go to the lake of fire are not fully atoned for .. rather they are paying their own debt of still-unforgiven sin - though it was already paid by Christ on the cross.

That is the Arminian and Wesleyan stance, NOT the Calvinist stance.

The Calvinist "limited atonement" means that the death and resurrection of Christ DID NOT APPLY to those who are not of the "elect." There was no sacrifice for them at all.

3. And we believe in the "Perseverance of the saints" -- in that all the saints in heaven will be able to point to some time of conversion where they "persevered firm until the end" from that time onward.

Again, that is the Arminian and Wesleyan stance, NOT the Calvinist stance.

The Calvinist stance is that the "elect" have been chosen from before creation and they cannot chose to walk away from their faith. (total depravity, remember)

The Baptist doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) is a watered down version of this. They at least agree that one can choose salvation. But then you cannot lose your salvation no matter how badly you live.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes that is an Arminian and Wesleyan stance. But "total depravity" as used by Calvinists means the inability to respond to the gospel message (even if you want to). We are just too depraved to be able to choose God.

Well even by Calvinist standards the "drawing" of John 6 -- enables all the "inability" that depravity causes. So then in John 12:32 the Arminian response is "fine -- because God draws ALL mankind".

The Calvinist "limited atonement" means that the death and resurrection of Christ DID NOT APPLY to those who are not of the "elect." There was no sacrifice for them at all.

True. That is my 1/2 point - we believe in a limited atonement but not using the Calvinist narrow definition of atonement that only includes the "atoning sacrifice".

The Calvinist stance is that the "elect" have been chosen from before creation and they cannot chose to walk away from their faith.

Perseverance of the saints for Calvinists means that if you fall away ten years from today - you were never saved to start with.

The Baptist doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) is a watered down version of this. They at least agree that one can choose salvation. But then you cannot lose your salvation no matter how badly you live.

I agree that their OSAS requires Calvinism and the Arminian Baptists that hold to OSAS are in a self-conflicted position

 

[Dave-W]

Well even by Calvinist standards the "drawing" of John 6 -- enables all the "inability" that depravity causes.

IT is not so much an "enabling" as it is a dragging against one's will. When the elect are "drawn," they cannot refuse. That is vastly different from the Arminian stance.

Perseverance of the saints for Calvinists means that if you fall away ten years from today - you were never saved to start with.

That is one way of looking at it. The other way is that they still are saved even though it may look otherwise.

 

[BobRyan]

That is one way of looking at it. The other way is that they still are saved even though it may look otherwise.

4 Point Calvinists say if you fall away ten years from today you are saved anyway.
5 Point Calvinists say if you fall away ten years from today you were never saved to start with.

The 4 pointers will sometimes "bend the TULIP" to say that it is "PRESERVATION" of the saints and not "PERSEVERANCE" of the saints that is their 5th point.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Do you folks think that an "elect" can fail? No doubt, it would be by choice, knowing they have a role to play in God's good work, but being dragged down by self and satan. I think that God's "chosen" know it early on. What little I know about Calvinist, the outcome was also pre-destined, saved and unsaved. Is that correct?

 

[Dave-W]

What little I know about Calvinist, the outcome was also pre-destined, saved and unsaved. Is that correct?

It is. That is why I reject out of hand the Calvinist view of the "elect." (chosen) The "elect" were chosen and written in the Book of Life before creation. Those in it have no choice but to obey the gospel; and those NOT in it have no choice except to rebel against it.

There are way too many places in scripture where we are told to choose for me to accept a concept that has no choice.

 

[Dave-W]

4 Point Calvinists say if you fall away ten years from today you are saved anyway.
5 Point Calvinists say if you fall away ten years from today you were never saved to start with.

And the 5 pointers will also say that if you were in the elect, you may never show any signs of it but you are saved anyway. And conversely if you are NOT in the elect, you can look like Mr Super Christian all your life (never "fall away") but still end up in hell.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

You will know them by their fruits.

 

[Dave-W]

You will know them by their fruits.

Another point that calvinists inadvertently dismiss. Either you were chosen before creation or you weren't. Nothing else matters much.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

That's just silly.

 

[tatteredsoul]

We join them in

1. having 66 books in the Bible.
2. Bible as the Word of God.
3. Sola Scriptura testing of all doctrine and tradition.
4. Ten Commandments still applicable to the saints. The moral law of God that defines sin as we see in Romans 7 and 3:19-21
5. Sabbath Commandment "unbent" - remains as it has always been and applies to mankind.
6. Believers Baptism.
7. Trinity
8. Saved by grace through faith and that not of works.
9. literal death burial and resurrection of Christ.
10. Literal second coming of Christ.
11. Literal 1000 year millennium.
12. Free will (I think SDB's accept the Bible doctrine on free will

...

Where we differ.

1. The Commandments and Sabbath play a key role in how the world ends and what the final issues are.
2. The wicked are not now in hell
3. Hell is the Rev 20 still-future lake of fire - and will not torture the wicked for all eternity - but is "finite" the length of time it will punish the wicked.
4. The 1 Cor 12 and Ephesians 4 list of spiritual gifts are still valid (except possibly for Apostles... no more Apostles).
5. The Sanctuary in heaven that you find in Hebrews 8 - is a much bigger deal than most realize. Pre-advent judgment of Daniel 7 is going on now.
6. People are not now - immortal - but will be some day.
7. The Three Angels messages of Rev 14 are the big deal - final end time warning that everyone should know about -- as in "forewarned is fore armed".
8. We are the 5th largest Christian denomination on the planet.
9. We live an average of 10 years longer than the average American.
10. Only eat the meats that the Lev 11 list approves us - avoid eating rats, cats, dogs bats etc.
11. Promote vegetarian diet as being the most healthful.
12. Have access to prophet writings specific to what is about to happen on planet earth.
13. Not sure if SDB are stuck on OSAS - but SDAs do support the OSAS ideas.
(There is probably more - but can't think of what it is off the top of my head)

SDB doctrine. -
http://seventhdaybaptist.org/about/statement-of-belief/

I must be a seven day adventist, except I have no idea who Ellen White is as many have accused.

I just happened to read the Bible...

Definitely don't fit Adventist Baptist.

Maybe adventist non denominational?

Why are there so many denominations for one bible canon?!