Did You Really Not Know That Christ Must Be Obeyed? --Yes, You!

[GenemZ]

The references to “Belief Alone-ism” was towards the Jews, and the Jews who rejected their Messiah and held to a form of “Belief Alone-ism” were clearly not saved. Jesus said in John 15:6, “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” Jesus said, “And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” This means a person who lives out their faith and does not produce good fruit will not be saved.



The problem is that you are inserting your own ideas and or the ideas of others into this text that is completely foreign. This method would be eisegesis and not exegesis. The context of John's 1st epistle mentions nothing of your version of the “sin unto death.” In order for your interpretation to work, you have to actually ignore what is going on in 1 John 5. See, the brethren are praying for a brother who is struggling to overcome sin that they are confessing to the Lord. The goal of their prayer is to give this believer life or victory in overcoming their sin. As long as this believer who is struggling with their sin is confessing and seeking to overcome their sin genuinely, they are not committing a “sin that is unto death.” (i.e. spiritual death). They are confessing their sin in order to be forgiven of their sin. This is the sin that does not unto death (i.e. spiritual death). The context here is in relation to the spiritual and not the physical.

The physical death interpretation here makes no sense because how would the believers know if another believer was committing a sin unto death vs. a sin that is not unto death in the physical sense. In the physical death view, it is God who takes the life of a believer on the account of their sin. So the believer would have no way of knowing whether or not to pray for them or not. In context: If you were to look at the previous chapters of John's 1st epistle, you would see that he makes a contrast between “spiritual life” vs. “spiritual death.” A person is of the light or darkness. A person has the truth and or does not have the truth. A person is of God, or they are not of God and they are of the devil. They either have eternal life, or they do not have eternal life abiding in them. This is the theme that is established.

There is no discussion in John's epistle of God taking physical life on the account of certain sins. James 5:14-16 coupled with 1 Corinthians 11:29-30 may be the closest to sounding like a defense of your view. While it is true that men can get sick and even die on the account of sin. We see Ananias and Sapphira are killed on the account of their sin, but we know they clearly lost their salvation by what they did because the church experienced the emotion of fear. If you were to put on your detective cap, and examine the scene like a criminal investigator would do, you would realize that only certain emotions can fit the truth of things. If Ananias and Sapphira were never saved, and they were fakes, then the church would most likely feel a sense of justice being done or feel sad that they did not repent. But they would not be in fear over false pretenders dying. If Ananias and Sapphira were safely in the arms of Jesus, the church would either feel sad that they would miss their friends, or they would rejoice that they are in Heaven with God. The emotion of fear again would not make any sense in this view. The emotion of fear by the church only makes sense if they knew that a similar sin could take their own life and they would be condemned in a similar way by God. For a believer is not to fear death. Jesus and Paul made that fact clear. Jesus said do not fear the one who can destroy the body, but fear the One who can destroy both body and soul in hell (Gehenna) (Matthew 10:28). Paul says to live is Christ and to die is gain. So Paul did not look at death as something to be feared.

Anyways, nobody is sick to the point of dying in 1 John 5. If you hold to the physical death view: You must assume that a believer's sickness is the result of their sin (and that is the indicator that they are committing a potential sin unto death). But not all ailments or sickness is related to sin. We learn in John 9:2-3 that the man who was born blind was not related to anything sinful that they did. So again. How would they know what the “sin unto death” vs. the “sin not unto death” actually is? How would they truly identify it?

Side Note:

Oh, and the whole “leads unto death” is an additional word by Modern Translations and their bent way of thinking. The King James does not have this addition to Scripture. The KJV simply says “sin unto death” or “sin not unto death.” The word “unto” is commonly defined as the word “to” in older dictionaries. For example: Bob went to the store is different than Bob leading the way to the store. But of course, many in your camp believe the original languages are better and that the English words in our Bible can sometimes be disregarded.



You did not learn this from reading your Bible on your own (by asking God the understanding of His Word) and by looking at the context. The only way you could know of this is from a church, articles online, a Bible college, or group of other believers, etc.; Why do I say this?

Well, there is no Bible verse that says faith can be dead and yet a person can still be saved (despite that fact). It makes no sense to even suggest such a thing. Ephesians 2:8-9 says that we are saved by God's grace through faith. If there is no faith (on the account of it being dead), we cannot be saved. James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). A dead faith means that a person's faith is nonexistent. It's dead. So it cannot access the saving grace of God anymore.



Again, nothing in 1 Corinthians 3 suggests that the building materials are works in general of a believer and that the bad materials are sinful works. That again is eisegesis and not exegesis (and seeing what you desire to see instead of just reading and believing the text). You are inserting an outside belief that states this information. Nowhere is there a connection to the materials that are wood, hay, and stubble as being the sinful actions of the believer. Paul tells us that we are God's building (1 Corinthians 3:9). So the works are the believer's themselves. The work is in reference to the kind of believers we bring to the faith. According to the Parable: Paul's work would be the Corinthian believers. They are justifying the sins of strife and envy in 1 Corinthians 3:3. Paul mentions the sins of strife and envy in Galatians 5:19-21, and says that they which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. The words “inherit the Kingdom” is in reference to entering God's kingdom (i.e. salvation) (See: Matthew 25:34, and compare with Matthew 25:46). Paul warns that if any man defiles the temple, God will destroy them.

“If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.” (1 Corinthians 3:17).



No. Paul's work of bringing the Corinthians to the faith would be lost. The Corinthians at the time they were justifying sin were like hay, wood, and stubble that would be burned up. Paul would be saved, but his work (the Corinthians) would be burned. Paul would be saved as through the fire in this instance. The parable is not talking about good works and sinful works of the believer in general but it is talking about the work being the kind of people we bring to the faith. You are free to point out the context of 1 Corinthians 3 that supports your viewpoint on this, but we both know you will not be able to do that.

12 “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:12-15).​

5 “...God;
6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;”
(Romans 2:5-12).

“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:29).​

“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;” (Hebrews 5:9).​

While we may agree with having faith in His blood according to Romans 3:25, you do not accept 1 John 1:7 in what it says plainly.

1 John 1:7 says, “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”

The word “if” is a condition here.
If we walk in the light.... the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

Walking in the light is loving your brother according to 1 John 2:9-11.
So you have to continually meet the condition of “loving your brother” in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse you of all sin.

This truth is confirmed with 1 John 3:10 that says that a person who does not righteousness and does not love his brother is not of God.

1 John 3:15 says whoever hates his brother is like murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

So yes. Salvation is conditional upon not sinning and doing good.
To miss this is to miss what the Bible plainly says.



James says, “Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.”
(James 4:8).

This is in context to this:

“Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” (James 4:7).

Also, James 1:8 says, “A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.”

This is in context to asking the Lord by way of prayer in regards to growing in the faith and becoming strong in the faith to resist temptations.

“Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” (James 1:12).​

A man who does not believe God will answer His prayer always in being faithful in protecting them in times of temptation is like a man whose faith is tossed to and fro like a boat lost at sea. It wavers. Back and forth. So such a man who prays does not receive anything of the Lord in regards to building up their faith because they do not truly believe. Their faith wavers back and forth in their thinking that they can overcome sin. Most believers today do not even think they can stop sinning this side of Heaven. So they do not even believe what James is saying in James chapter 1. They have no real clue as to what he is saying. It is because they don't want to know.

I see... Long on words... Short on reality.

There is a way which seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death."
Prov 14:12​

 

[GenemZ]

Brother, I see repentance as turning, and repentance to Christ, as turning from the path I used to walk, to turning to the path He's on.

Not everyone was on the same path you used to walk.

Accept the cross God has handed to you and realize that you are not to impose it upon others. Each one of us must work our our own salvation with fear and trembling. God gave us each unique fingerprints. He also gave us each unique requirements in what we need in working out our very own salvation.

What is required of you? May not be required of another. When you think and assume it is required of all in the same way? And, you impose it upon others? It becomes to them legalism.

​

From everyone who has been given much, much will be required;
and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more
will be asked. Lk 12:48b​

What the Lord requires of you will not be the same that He requires of another, other than always walking in grace and Truth in all that is required of you by Him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Brother, I see repentance as turning, and repentance to Christ, as turning from the path I used to walk, to turning to the path He's on.

In Luke 15 we see three parables back to back. We see repentance is a primary key theme or point in Luke 15 in all three parables; The first two parables we see repentance mentioned in Luke 15:6, and Luke 15:10. The third parable is the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness (i.e. the Sinner's Prayer). This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10. We also see the theme of rejoicing after repentance as another theme in these three parables, as well. The first two parables uses the word “repenteth” (i.e. repents) (Note: One of them also uses the word “repentance.” The word “repent” does not appear in the third parable but we can see the same pattern of what is going on in the first two parables that proceed it. This helps us to define the word “repentance” or “repent.”

I would encourage you to re-read this chapter and check these things out, brother. Furthermore, we see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness." This again is another definition for the word “repent.”

That first turn in my life to Christ, changed everything.

I believe we do turn or surrender to God in repentance but this is done via by seeking forgiveness with the Lord with a godly sorrow. If I tell a person to turn to God, that does not help them unless they have the specific right instructions to get their heart right with God. Peter told Simon to seek forgiveness by way of prayer over his transgression. The Prodigal Son was willing to confess of his sins to his father and before all of Heaven.

It's like in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee. The Tax Collector was justified more than the other because he cried out to God in seeking forgiveness with Him over his sins. This is where salvation starts. This is repentance.

Belief is what causes this first turn to Christ, which is then follow by obedience to Him, which is then followed by God's gifts to us, the first of which is His Holy Spirit.

I believe that a person can be saved by a belief alone in Christ's name (John 1:12), but to whom much is given, much is required. I see the belief alone in Christ's name mentioned in John 1:12 as a person who believes in Christ for salvation on their deathbed (When there is not much time), or the guy who lives in a jungle and his language is very primitive, and he is not able to access the wealth of knowledge in the Bible in his own tongue. But a person who has a Bible and can understand it has the responsibility to know it. In other words, they need to come to accept the truth later on that they need to seek forgiveness with the Lord over their sins. If they reject this truth in Scripture, they are not saved. It's the same thing with the Trinity. A person can be initially saved without knowing about the Trinity. But when the truth of the Trinity is revealed to them via by Scripture, they cannot reject that truth and continue to be saved. A person has to accept the whole counsel of God's Word.

All subsequent repentance (turning from sin), is simply the mortification of the flesh; which is a constant fight, for the Spirit wars against the flesh, and the flesh against the Spirit; and as we grow in the faith, our battle with the flesh lessens, and our battle with the world increases: for we are saved by faith, which denotes plainly, that we are still in our present state, for if our redemption had already occurred in-fact, then we would no longer war with the flesh, for we would have a body that is in harmony with the Spirit that now dwells in us: this is our hope, the redemption of our bodies, and this hope is because we believe God will keep His promise--this hope saves us.

I see holy living as the fruits of repentance (or the results of repentance).

Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree? Surely not.

Things change when a person cries out to God with a godly sorrow.
If they just start running in the other direction and have no change of heart by calling out to God for the forgiveness of their sin, then it does not help them. They need to be born again spiritually. Take for example a husband who cheats on his wife. If she caught him being unfaithful, and he just decided to stop and he did not apologize, things would not go so well. He needs to actually be sorry for what he has done. He needs to sincerely apologize to her, and be broken up about it. The same is true with God. It's why 2 Corinthians 7 says,

“For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.” (2 Corinthians 7:10).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I see... Long on words... Short on reality.

There is a way which seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death."
Prov 14:12​

Well, I believe the real reason you did not reply to my points is because they cannot be refuted with Scripture. But you are welcome to try. But we know that a bankrupt belief or position has no real case or argument to make.

 

[Religiot]

Not everyone was on the same path you used to walk.

Accept the cross God has handed to you and realize that you are not to impose it upon others. Each one of us must work our our own salvation with fear and trembling. God gave us each unique fingerprints. He also gave us each unique requirements in what we need in working out our very own salvation.

What is required of you? May not be required of another. When you think and assume it is required of all in the same way? And, you impose it upon others? It becomes to them legalism.

​

From everyone who has been given much, much will be required;
and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more
will be asked. Lk 12:48b​

What the Lord requires of you will not be the same that He requires of another, other than always walking in grace and Truth in all that is required of you by Him.

Brother, there is only one cross that we must carry...

And if it can be said that I'm putting anything on anyone, then it is simply this, that they obey Christ.

--If you find that objectionable, then your problem is not actually with me, but with the Lord.

 

[GenemZ]

Well, I believe the real reason you did not reply to my points is because they cannot be refuted with Scripture. But you are welcome to try. But we know that a bankrupt belief or position has no real case or argument to make.

When the stampeding herd passes I will get back on the field.

Try dealing with a point at a time and you will have your hands full. And, you know it. Instead? Throw a barrage of many things at once? And you only stampede the other with nothing that can be properly addressed..

You do not want to deal with one detail at a time. For, that is where another can catch the devil. For then others will be able to follow it too and bear witness against you.

Your strategy is old and blustery. Its stampeding with out of control mindless cattle.

The prudent sees the evil and hides himself,
But the naive go on, and are punished for it.
Prov 22:3​

They naive get trampled by your way. Way too much at once to possibly be addressed.

So, I hide myself and let your stampede pass. While nobody else will know what you just said either.

Your tactic only reveals that you are book smart. That you can memorize many things. Get understanding and let your words become wisdom.

Get wisdom and maybe then we can fellowship.

 

[GenemZ]

Brother, there is only one cross that we must carry...

And if it can be said that I'm putting anything on anyone, then it is simply this, that they obey Christ.

--If you find that objectionable, then your problem is not actually with me, but with the Lord.

So you are going to bear the sins of the world?

Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me,
he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me."

Mat 16:24
​

Jesus told us to take up our own cross. Not His!

We each have a cross to bear. Those who are given much. Much will be demanded of him. Those who are not required much? To them it will seem like much just the same. For God's grace is the great equalizer! Do not resent believers who are not required what God requires of you. Otherwise you will sin in your resentment.

 

[Religiot]

In Luke 15 we see three parables back to back. We see repentance is a primary key theme or point in Luke 15 in all three parables; The first two parables we see repentance mentioned in Luke 15:6, and Luke 15:10. The third parable is the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness (i.e. the Sinner's Prayer). This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10. We also see the theme of rejoicing after repentance as another theme in these three parables, as well. The first two parables uses the word “repenteth” (i.e. repents) (Note: One of them also uses the word “repentance.” The word “repent” does not appear in the third parable but we can see the same pattern of what is going on in the first two parables that proceed it. This helps us to define the word “repentance” or “repent.”

I would encourage you to re-read this chapter and check these things out, brother. Furthermore, we see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness." This again is another definition for the word “repent.”



I believe we do turn or surrender to God in repentance but this is done via by seeking forgiveness with the Lord with a godly sorrow. If I tell a person to turn to God, that does not help them unless they have the specific right instructions to get their heart right with God. Peter told Simon to seek forgiveness by way of prayer over his transgression. The Prodigal Son was willing to confess of his sins to his father and before all of Heaven.

It's like in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee. The Tax Collector was justified more than the other because he cried out to God in seeking forgiveness with Him over his sins. This is where salvation starts. This is repentance.



I believe that a person can be saved by a belief alone in Christ's name (John 1:12), but to whom much is given, much is required. I see the belief alone in Christ's name mentioned in John 1:12 as a person who believes in Christ for salvation on their deathbed (When there is not much time), or the guy who lives in a jungle and his language is very primitive, and he is not able to access the wealth of knowledge in the Bible in his own tongue. But a person who has a Bible and can understand it has the responsibility to know it. In other words, they need to come to accept the truth later on that they need to seek forgiveness with the Lord over their sins. If they reject this truth in Scripture, they are not saved. It's the same thing with the Trinity. A person can be initially saved without knowing about the Trinity. But when the truth of the Trinity is revealed to them via by Scripture, they cannot reject that truth and continue to be saved. A person has to accept the whole counsel of God's Word.



I see holy living as the fruits of repentance (or the results of repentance).

Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree? Surely not.

Things change when a person cries out to God with a godly sorrow.
If they just start running in the other direction and have no change of heart by calling out to God for the forgiveness of their sin, then it does not help them. They need to be born again spiritually. Take for example a husband who cheats on his wife. If she caught him being unfaithful, and he just decided to stop and he did not apologize, things would not go so well. He needs to actually be sorry for what he has done. He needs to sincerely apologize to her, and be broken up about it. The same is true with God. It's why 2 Corinthians 7 says,

“For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.” (2 Corinthians 7:10).

Brother, my statement presupposes contrition, as I've said in my other posts on this thread, please see posts #222 and #433.

When you consider my points, as I've made them to others, you will find that the underlying presupposition to all that I've said is simply that the bible is true, and I agree with it, monolithically.

This belief, that scripture cant' be broken, is contrasted by the belief that it can be: most hold to the latter.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

When the stampeding herd passes I will get back on the field.

Try dealing with a point at a time and you will have your hands full. And, you know it. Instead? Throw a barrage of many things at once? And you only stampede the other with nothing that can be properly addressed..

You do not want to deal with one detail at a time. For, that is where another can catch the devil. For then others will be able to follow it too and bear witness against you.

Your strategy is old and blustery. Its stampeding with out of control mindless cattle.

The prudent sees the evil and hides himself,
But the naive go on, and are punished for it.
Prov 22:3​

They naive get trampled by your way. Way too much at once to possibly be addressed.

So, I hide myself and let your stampede pass. While nobody else will know what you just said either.

Your tactic only reveals that you are book smart. That you can memorize many things. Get understanding and let your words become wisdom.

Get wisdom and maybe then we can fellowship.

I answered appropriately to what you have written. I have written a lengthy reply because I am seeking to defend the truth of God's Word properly. If you don't want to reply, that is squarely on you, dear sir. You can answer in pieces or in stages. I know, I have done this before many times when I felt that it was worthy of me to stand up for the truth on something.

In either case, may God's love shine upon you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Brother, my statement presupposes contrition, as I've said in my other posts on this thread, please see posts #222 and #433.

When you consider my points, as I've made them to others, you will find that the underlying presupposition to all that I've said is simply that the bible is true, and I agree with it, monolithically.

This belief, that scripture cant' be broken, is contrasted by the belief that it can be: most hold to the latter.

Thank you, brother.
I seen post #222 and seen your example of King David seeking forgiveness with God (i.e. Psalms 51). As for post #433: It appeared to be somebody else's post. But that's alright, my brother. I see your point now.

Amazing blessings be unto you in the Lord today.

 

[Religiot]

So you are going to bear the sins of the world?

Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me,
he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me."

Mat 16:24
​

Jesus told us to take up our own cross. Not His!

We each have a cross to bear. Those who are given much. Much will be demanded of him. Those who are not required much? To them it will seem like much just the same. For God's grace is the great equalizer! Do not resent believers who are not required what God requires of you. Otherwise you will sin in your resentment.

You misunderstand me greatly, and have also misunderstood the scriptures: It was Simon of Cyrene who bore the cross of Christ--he is a metaphor for you and me...

After the sacrifice of Christ--which we must first believe--then we are to imitate Him, and give our lives to God, as Christ did for us, which is our reasonable service.

--Paul says that "he is crucified with Christ"...

Brother, the cross is not subjective, it means only one thing, death--slow and arduous death.

Obedience to Christ is not subjective either. Either you obey Him, or you don't, that's really all there is to it.

 

[GenemZ]

In either case, may God's love shine upon you.

May God's Truth shine IN YOU. Love for adult Christians requires knowledge and understanding.

Your over lengthy post to be refuted would have to grow ten times in length to straighten out what you said. And twenty times longer to straighten out after you attempt to justify yourself after I did.... And, then? Thirty times longer with what would follow. Its a waste of what I have been commanded to redeem. Time.

Unless you are willing to take one point at a time.. That way? Everyone could follow and learn something. As it is? If I took the time to refute your confusion, no one would be able to follow what I said either without much teaching on the details. Its a waste of time. In the mean time I know who you are. That's all that matters to me.

I am not wasting my time.

 

[GenemZ]

You misunderstand me greatly, and have also misunderstood the scriptures: It was Simon of Cyrene who bore the cross of Christ--he is a metaphor for you and me...

Now you are saying we are taking up Christ's cross so he can be crucified?

Jesus did not say (must I say this?).......

Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me,
he must deny himself and take up his/my cross and follow Me."

Mat 16:24​

Jesus told us to take up our own cross. Not His.

I know you are really a nice guy.

 

[Religiot]

Thank you, brother.
I seen post #222 and seen your example of King David seeking forgiveness with God (i.e. Psalms 51). As for post #433: It appeared to be somebody else's post. But that's alright, my brother. I see your point now.

Amazing blessings be unto you in the Lord today.

I'm sorry, brother, the correct post is #432.

Thanks for wishing me blessings, brother, the same to you, in Yehoshua's name, amen.

 

[Religiot]

Now you are saying we are taking up Christ's cross so he can be crucified?

Jesus did not say (must I say this?).......

Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me,
he must deny himself and take up his/my cross and follow Me."

Mat 16:24​

Jesus told us to take up our own cross. Not His.

I know you are really a nice guy.

Genez, you've only responded to part of my post, which doesn't reflect what I meant to say: my complete reply to you includes the meaning of my statement.

Your response serves to illustrates the very large problem when it comes to forming doctrines by parsing, instead of understanding.

The scriptures cannot be broken, yet today we find entire doctrines based on one-liners from the bible.

Only by harmonizing the scriptures as a whole do we avoid error.

My reply to you, if taken as a whole, spells out what I meant by what I said--for it is what I said--and your parsing of my sentences only serves to confuse yourself, and others; so please, just respond to my actual points, and don't build upon a piece of what I've said, because it will help no one, and because it is ultimately, not true.

Fruitful discussions between us are only possible if we deal with what we are meaning to communicate, and not by dealing with what can be extrapolated from what we've said.

The meaning of our sentences is what ought to be accepted, wherefore any questions for clarification ought to be the default in our demeanor, and as Christians, especially, for we are commanded to be humble.

So I urge you, brother, please seek to understand what I mean, and feel completely free to ask any questions that you think would help you understand the points I'm trying to make about the subject of obedience.

Thanks, and Godspeed.

 

[Religiot]

I'm still waiting for the OP to tell me why God says that I'm disobeying him.

Sorry I'm responding so late:

The post is obviously for everyone to see, and if it pricks the heart of some, then glory be to God, and if not, then again, glory be to God; for both results are good: the first because it is leading someone to repentance, and the second, because it is a glorification, by validation, that Christ is indeed the Lord Who is obeyed.

PS: As far as knowing where you personally stand would be impossible for me, unless you told me. My hope is that you are in the latter group that obeys Christ, and if so, please chime in to say so--not to justify yourself, but to glorify the Lord.

Thanks, and Godspeed.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

If God will see to it that you will do something good, then why didn't He stop Adam and Eve from eating of the wrong tree?
God is not a respecter of persons (Acts of the Apostles 10:34).



When you read verses like Hebrews 7:25, you also have to read and believe Hebrews 3:12-15, and Hebrews 10:26.



Colossians 1:19-22 says,
19 “For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:”

When you read Colossians 1:19-22, you also have to read verse 23 that says,

“If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel,” (Colossians 1:23).

It is conditional. We have to have to continue to have faith in the gospel as described in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. There are other conditions that we must also meet, as well.

5 “Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.”
(Colossians 3:5-7).​

It says we have to mortify or put to death certain sins out of our life. Why? Because these sins lead to the wrath of God coming upon the children of disobedience. Verse 7 describes these sins as being a part of the old life of the believer.

So we have to look at the whole counsel of God's Word.



Romans 8:1 says, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

The conditions for not being under the condemnation is:

1. Being in Christ Jesus.
2. Walk not after the flesh (sin), but to walk after the Spirit.

So if a person is walking after the flesh (sin), they will die, and the person who puts to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit will live (See: Romans 8:13).



Being saved at one point in time does not mean a person cannot later be unsaved. Adam and Eve were in a right relationship with God before the Fall. After they fell by their disobedience, they needed to restore that relationship. If this was not the case, then there would have been no need for God to send a Savior.

In other words, you have to look at the whole counsel of God's Word and not focus a laser beam on those verses you prefer to see. It's true that we can be saved by God's grace through faith in Christ and or by calling upon the name of the Lord, etc., but that does not mean we cannot later become unsaved due to sin and or in being unfruitful for our Lord. The warnings in NT Scripture are numerous on this. To not see these warnings means a person has either chosen to ignore them, or distort them to say something else.



What God's Word says is true. A person can be saved by God's grace. But you have to look at all of God's Word on the topic of salvation. Sanctification is also included in God's plan of salvation, too (John 5:24, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:24). It took me several years to realize this fact and to not believe the lies by others anymore. I just started to just believe what my Bible was saying alone and not listen to men anymore.



This sounds like Calvinism in reverse. Philippians 1:6 does not mean God is going to force you to do good. He can help you if you cooperate with Him by your own free will. But you have to choose to do so of your own free will.

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

It doesn't sound like God is going to force me to do good in Philippians 1:6. God can influence me greatly and help me to do good and perform a good work and complete it to the end in my life if I cooperate with Him. But I have to keep myself in the love of God. I have to continue in the faith. I have to continue in God's grace. I have to continue in His goodness. I have to be faithful unto death. I have to hold to the beginning confidence I had when I first came to the faith until the end.

God ain’t gonna interfere in the Freedom Of a Believer.....Believers are Free to do what they want.....The Secret Of Christianity that poorly taught, Confused Believers seem to always forget is this.....
Remember what Jesus said about “ the inside of the cup?” Believers have the Holy Spirit residing within ( if you don’t have that Spirit- you are NONE of His) because they Rest in the Gospel Of Paul.....This Spirit changes our wants....it TRANSFORMS us into the Image Of God’s Son....this Change is from the inside out .....Anybody can fool fellow Church-Goers and the World by changing the outward appearance or “ Turning over a New Leaf”—— only God can Transform a person ......remember....we are “ New Creations” in Christ .....God bless

 

[GenemZ]

“ If you see a Brother, CAUGHT UP IN SIN......”

Who is undergoing all the chastisement That Paul speaks of? Those that DON’T SIN ? Of course not! Believers sin. Believers get Chastised, hopefully learn their lesson and are then showed love and welcomed back into the fold .....those that administer the correction for a Sinning Brother are warned to do it in a humble manner because THEY MIGHT BE NEXT! Next to do what? SIN! It is beyond question that Christians sin.....

I still recall the deep soul agony the Lord put me through, even after repenting of my previous way of life. He would not let up (for years ) until he finally got me anchored in sound doctrine. Nothing can shake that kind of agony except for the Lord and finding and doing His will for your life.

Soul agony is a highly effective punishment, and for discipline. For, in that way God has you all to Himself, because no person can see your soul but God.

Soul agony - nothing but accepting and doing God's will can make it go away. I believe its why some try to bury themselves in getting drunk and doped up. That does not cure. It only puts you to sleep awaiting for surgery that never takes place.. Only by growing in grace and Truth can cure it.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

I still recall the deep soul agony the Lord put me through, even after repenting of my previous way of life. He would not let up (for years ) until he finally got me anchored in sound doctrine. Nothing can shake that kind of agony except for the Lord and finding and doing His will for your life.

Soul agony is a highly effective punishment, and for discipline. For, in that way God has you all to Himself, because no person can see your soul but God.

Soul agony - nothing but accepting and doing God's will can make it go away. I believe its why some try to bury themselves in getting drunk and doped up. That does not cure. It only puts you to sleep awaiting for surgery that never takes place.. Only by growing in grace and Truth can cure it.

I understand completely where you are coming from.....I suffered for Five years with a Depression That was UNBELIEVABLE.......had I not been such a Coward , I would have killed myself....

 

[Religiot]

Most people understand that it's important to at least say the right thing. They will agree that obedience and faithfulness is important. The trick always comes when we talk about what Jesus told us to do. What are his commands to his followers?

For example, did you know Jesus said we should not use special titles of flattery for one another like Father, Sir, Mr, etc? He said we're all brothers (and sisters) with the same father and that people who use these special titles for one another do so as a way of flattering (or exalting) themselves one above the other. He concluded that people should, instead, humble themselves (i.e. by not using these special titles).

Most professing Christians in the world today think this is very foolish. They have many reasons for why Jesus didn't really mean this, for why it really is okay to continue using the special titles of flattery, so long as you believe the best about your intentions for doing so. In other words, in order to justify using the titles, you must believe you are a good person for doing so.

Brother, it will always be the many, against the few; and it will always be the few pointing out to the many, the obvious truth.

There is nothing new: the many will continue to hear the truth, and disregard it; to read the truth, and ignore it; to call Him Lord, and disobey Him: this is how it's always been.

The Lord told us this before hand, so that we may have peace when we experience it for ourselves.

God did not author confusion, save in the minds of those who do not love the truth.

Remember, brother, the truth, is actually a person, and those who love Him, would rather die than go against Him, but their number is few...

War is coming, and it is the Lord Who brings it.

--The Saints will be riding with Him, as the world rages against Him, but it won't be a fair fight, it'll be the most glorious battle the world has ever known! ...I digress.

Just keep the faith, brother, and look for others who love the truth--and don't forget to shine as much as you can, with the confidence that you are not promoting your own ideas, but the Lord's plain commands.

Godspeed.