Did you ever consider? Poor, crazy and demon oppressed preachers.

HopeSings

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Did you consider that the apostles were not educated or dressed in suits? For the most part they were simple fisherman and laborers. They wore rags and might have smelled like farms, fish and horse stables.

Paul said that they were out of their own minds at times. Paul said that he had a messenger of Satan torment him.

Do these sound like the kind of people you would hire to teach your church? If not why? It's the strangest thing.
 
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HopeSings

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Did you ever consider this? Paul said that all who would live godly will be persecuted. How is that happening though? Dissension, division and factions don't seem good.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.

John 16:2 They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service.

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
 
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RandyPNW

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Did you consider that the apostles were not educated or dressed in suits? For the most part they were simple fisherman and laborers. They wore rags and might have smelled like farms, fish and horse stables.

Paul said that they were out of their own minds at times. Paul said that he had a messenger of Satan torment him.

Do these sound like the kind of people you would hire to teach your church? If not why? It's the strangest thing.
Paul was highly educated, and God used that education to reach out with the Gospel. Our cultural upbringing and personal experiences can help us to reach people with the understanding we have of their circumstances. To speak their language we have to know it.

Furthermore, the Scriptures are themselves designed to teach, to educate. To ignore that is to fall into error or to at least become vulnerable to it.
 
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HopeSings

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Paul was highly educated, and God used that education to reach out with the Gospel. Our cultural upbringing and personal experiences can help us to reach people with the understanding we have of their circumstances. To speak their language we have to know it.

Furthermore, the Scriptures are themselves designed to teach, to educate. To ignore that is to fall into error or to at least become vulnerable to it.
Paul considered his education as rubbish. Paul was poor and he was dressed in rags. He thirsted for the redemption of his body of death. He died daily. He was out of his mind somtimes, he had a messenger of Satan torment him, and was he scorned and rejected by the rich and the intellectual in the church.

Philippians 3:8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ

1 Corinthians 4:10 We are fools for Christ, but you are so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are honored, we are dishonored! 11 To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty, we are in rags, we are brutally treated, we are homeless.

James 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.

1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.

Jerimiah 9:23 Thus says the Lord:

“Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom,
Let not the mighty man glory in his might,
Nor let the rich man glory in his riches;
24 But let him who glories glory in this,
That he understands and knows Me,
That I am the Lord, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth.
For in these I delight,” says the Lord.

25 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord, “that I will punish all who are circumcised with the uncircumcised— 26 Egypt, Judah, Edom, the people of Ammon, Moab, and all who are in the farthest corners, who dwell in the wilderness. For all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.”

1 Corinthians 1:17 Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

Christ the Power and Wisdom of God​

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Glory Only in the Lord​

26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”
 
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Diamond7

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Timothy was young.
The 40 year rule is what they teach in Kabballah. Although the Hasidic teach it in part to 12 year old girls. For people who have a problem with Kabballah they need to know how much of the oral tradition is a part of our written Bible that we receive from the Hebrew People.

I was told you could not understand Kabbalah until you were 40 years old. I turned 40 and I did not understand anything any better. It was not until I was a christian for 40 years that I noticed a big difference. So that is just my own personal experience .

I think there are things people should not study their first 40 years of Christianity. Because they throw the baby out with the bath water. So we need to be careful with any teaching outside of the Bible. There is a reason why it does not have the authority of scripture. Even though as I said, a lot of the oral tradition is a part of our written Bible today.
 
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HopeSings

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The 40 year rule is what they teach in Kabballah. Although the Hasidic teach it in part to 12 year old girls. For people who have a problem with Kabballah they need to know how much of the oral tradition is a part of our written Bible that we receive from the Hebrew People.

I was told you could not understand Kabbalah until you were 40 years old. I turned 40 and I did not understand anything any better. It was not until I was a christian for 40 years that I noticed a big difference. So that is just my own personal experience .

I think there are things people should not study their first 40 years of Christianity. Because they throw the baby out with the bath water. So we need to be careful with any teaching outside of the Bible. There is a reason why it does not have the authority of scripture. Even though as I said, a lot of the oral tradition is a part of our written Bible today.
I reject things outside the Bible.
 
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Strong in Him

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I feel like people love America, Trump or Biden, and church, but not me. I don't even love myself. My only hope is that Jesus somehow loves me.
Jesus loves you so much that he died for you.
However he told us to love our neighbour as ourselves.
 
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Paul considered his education as rubbish.
Compared with the joy and privilege of knowing Christ, yes.
Paul had been a Pharisee, so he was well educated in the Scriptures. He spent hours debating the Christian faith with Thessalonians, Bereans, Greeks and so on., Acts 13:16-41; Acts 14:1; Acts 17:1-4; Acts 17:21-34.
Paul was poor and he was dressed in rags.
If he was it was because he chose to give his money to others.
He worked as a tent-maker so that he could provide for himself and not be a burden on his churches.

He thirsted for the redemption of his body of death.
He wanted to die to be with the Lord - but also to stay alive to preach the Gospel and for the sake of his churches.
He was out of his mind somtimes, he had a messenger of Satan torment him, and was he scorned and rejected by the rich and the intellectual in the church.
So?
What are you trying to say here?
 
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Diamond7

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I reject things outside the Bible.
Your not listening. A lot of the written Bible is based on Oral tradition. Notice the Bible has no structure. NO sentences, no paragraphs, no verses and no chapters. But feel free to interpret this yourself if you do not have confidence in the oral tradition. Even in this the little dots were added and are not a part of the original Hebrew.

Of course there is a LOT as Christians that we do not agree with in the Jewish religion. That is why we should not attempt to study it until we have been a Christian for 40 years. So who is going to teach you how to read Hebrew if not the Hebrews? The Christians that know Hebrew learned it from Hebrews, not other Christians.

I learned in Bible school that the Bible interprets itself just like everyone else. Then I began to understand how much more there is in the original language that does not get translated. Lots of people here on the board study the original language of the Bible. Even KJV leaves a lot untranslated even if it is the authorized version of the Bible.

So the question is what is in the Bible? I spend a lot of time showing that science and the Bible are compatible and one is not outside of the other when properly translated and understood. So I will ask you the same as everyone else. SHOW me the conflict between Science and the Bible. Show me where one is outside of the other. Because the Bible confirms science and science confirms the Bible.

Of course I know the times we live in and all of the deception there is. That is why we look forward to the 1000 year reign of Christ when things will be different during the Kingdom age. This will be a sabbath when man can rest from His works. The Bible talks a lot about how important it is to keep the Sabbath.

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Diamond7

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Did you consider that the apostles were not educated or dressed in suits?
Jesus was considered a prodigy and at the age of 12 they were amazed at his understanding of the Bible. Luke must have spent a lot of time talking to Mary. Even there are things John does not tell us about her.
 
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Diamond7

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Paul considered his education as rubbish
Apostle Paul does acknowledge in his writings that there were times when he boasted in himself. He reflects on this aspect of his past behavior in several of his letters in the New Testament.

For instance, in 2 Corinthians 11:21, Paul writes:

"Whatever anyone else dares to boast of—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast of that."

Here, Paul is essentially saying that if others boast about their accomplishments or qualities, he could boast even more. However, he later expresses that boasting in this way is foolish and not a reflection of true wisdom or humility.
 
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HopeSings

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Compared with the joy and privilege of knowing Christ, yes.
Paul had been a Pharisee, so he was well educated in the Scriptures. He spent hours debating the Christian faith with Thessalonians, Bereans, Greeks and so on., Acts 13:16-41; Acts 14:1; Acts 17:1-4; Acts 17:21-34.

If he was it was because he chose to give his money to others.
He worked as a tent-maker so that he could provide for himself and not be a burden on his churches.


He wanted to die to be with the Lord - but also to stay alive to preach the Gospel and for the sake of his churches.

So?
What are you trying to say here?
Paul didn't debate like we do.
Compared with the joy and privilege of knowing Christ, yes.
Paul had been a Pharisee, so he was well educated in the Scriptures. He spent hours debating the Christian faith with Thessalonians, Bereans, Greeks and so on., Acts 13:16-41; Acts 14:1; Acts 17:1-4; Acts 17:21-34.

If he was it was because he chose to give his money to others.
He worked as a tent-maker so that he could provide for himself and not be a burden on his churches.


He wanted to die to be with the Lord - but also to stay alive to preach the Gospel and for the sake of his churches.

So?
What are you trying to say here?
Please don't compare the debate we see here with Paul's ministry. He wasn't catholic or protestant.

You ask what I meant. I mean that people today would likely reject Paul because he dresses in rags and talks about being tormented by demons. They did in 1 Corinthians chapter 4.
 
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Diamond7

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I feel like people love America, Trump or Biden, and church, but not me. I don't even love myself. My only hope is that Jesus somehow loves me.
I went through that after my divorce. If my wife did not love me than how could I learn how to love myself. Because we learn of the love that God and Jesus have for us and we try to become the person God created us to be. So we use our gifts, talents and abilities to bring praise, honor and glory to God.

It is difficult to love our enemy, it is difficult to love ourselves, it was difficult for me to forgive my wife. But with God all things are possible.
 
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HopeSings

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Your not listening. A lot of the written Bible is based on Oral tradition. Notice the Bible has no structure. NO sentences, no paragraphs, no verses and no chapters. But feel free to interpret this yourself if you do not have confidence in the oral tradition. Even in this the little dots were added and are not a part of the original Hebrew.

Of course there is a LOT as Christians that we do not agree with in the Jewish religion. That is why we should not attempt to study it until we have been a Christian for 40 years. So who is going to teach you how to read Hebrew if not the Hebrews? The Christians that know Hebrew learned it from Hebrews, not other Christians.

I learned in Bible school that the Bible interprets itself just like everyone else. Then I began to understand how much more there is in the original language that does not get translated. Lots of people here on the board study the original language of the Bible. Even KJV leaves a lot untranslated even if it is the authorized version of the Bible.

So the question is what is in the Bible? I spend a lot of time showing that science and the Bible are compatible and one is not outside of the other when properly translated and understood. So I will ask you the same as everyone else. SHOW me the conflict between Science and the Bible. Show me where one is outside of the other. Because the Bible confirms science and science confirms the Bible.

Of course I know the times we live in and all of the deception there is. That is why we look forward to the 1000 year reign of Christ when things will be different during the Kingdom age. This will be a sabbath when man can rest from His works. The Bible talks a lot about how important it is to keep the Sabbath.

View attachment 347627
Tradition is catholic and protestant. I'm neither. Scribes wrote scripture but Jesus didn't like them very much. They loved debate
 
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