Did Yahshua Rise on the 7th Day Shabbat...

[daq]

So is it lost?

No, it is still right there in the scripture, but scripture knowledge and understanding is required. For example I said this a few pages back and didn't receive any replies or see any discussion about it at all. And yet I have seen multiple times in just the last few days, in different threads where the same topic has come up, (including once here in this thread), people claiming that there is no set amount of days for a hodesh. There is, and the number is thirty, and I've already made the claim and tried to point others to the place in the Torah where it is expounded: but apparently people just cannot see it, (it does require a little study in the original language).

Moreover your assertion is based on modern Jewish tradition, not the Torah. You'll need to prove your assertion from the Torah: but it doesn't teach what you claim, for a hodesh, when it is used in the sense of a full month instead of the day, (rosh hodesh, the first day of the month), is thirty days. No more, no less, (Exodus 16 and Numbers 11).

It will take scripture comprehension, which doesn't come easy, or by skimming texts and quote mining. In addition to Exodus 16 and Numbers 11 you will also need at least a surface understanding of Genesis 24:11 in light of John 4:6 because the answer, thirty yamim, can be either hours or days. A hodesh yamim, (Numbers 11:20a), is how long the murmerers and complainers fed on their lust for flesh before they died. Count the time: "all that day, all the night, and all the next day", (Numbers 11:32).

What does he mean with the first phrase, all that day? When did the quail fall? (Exodus 16), and what time of day does evening commence? (Genesis 24:11, John 4:6-7).

6+12+12 = 30

 

[HARK!]

will also need at least a surface understanding of Genesis 24:11

This is a very interesting word:

השאבת

Compare:

השבת

 

[daq]

This is a very interesting word:

השאבת

Compare:

השבת

It's actually shaab, and (supposedly) would not be related to Shabbat: but what one place I find interesting is Isaiah 12:3, and the context is indeed quite interesting in comparison to the other related contexts, (thinking of John 4).

Isaiah 12:3 KJV
3 Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.

That sure sounds like the living water the Master is speaking about to the woman at the well in John 4, eh?

1 Samuel 9:11, 2 Samuel 23:15-17, (1 Chr 11:17-19).

 

[daq]

At least I can see what resistors to the truth who can't objectively look at post #195 look and sound like. Prayers to you and all subjective minds. This thread is about pinning down the day Yeshua was buried and rose from the dead. To do that you need the right calendar and start date for the 1st Month of Abib. Look at post #195 and your calendar isn't supported.

How many times do you want me to look at your post #195? I've already looked at it and it doesn't negate my understanding of the calendar, and for that matter you have no idea what my understanding of the calendar is, and you say it really doesn't matter anyway because of your own reasoning, just as you admitted in the same post.

To explain what I shared on post #147 I asked myself the question:

If Yeshua died on Abib 14 Passover and was buried on either a Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday, then what day of the week would Abib 1 begin for each of these doctrines?

After all there are only 7 Days of the Week one may begin their calendar year on. When I started out the beginning of the year on the following days of the week I observed the following:

Saturday Burial Doctrines
Calendars which begin Abib 1 on Sunday will logically have Yeshua buried on Saturday Abib 14.

• 1st Month of Abib
• 01 02 03 04 05 06 07
• 01 02 03 04 05 06 07
• 08 09 10 11 12 13 14
• 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
• 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
• 29 30_______________

Sunday Burial Doctrines
Calendars which begin Abib 1 on Monday will logically have Yeshua buried on Sunday Abib 14.

• 1st Month of Abib
• 01 02 03 04 05 06 07
• ___01 02 03 04 05 06
• 07 08 09 10 11 12 13
• 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
• 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
• 28 29 30____________

Monday Burial Doctrines
Calendars which begin Abib 1 on Tuesday will logically have Yeshua buried on Monday Abib 14.

• 1st Month of Abib
• 01 02 03 04 05 06 07
• ______01 02 03 04 05
• 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
• 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
• 20 21 22 23 24 25 26
• 27 28 29 30_________

Tuesday Burial Doctrines
Calendars which begin Abib 1 on Wednesday will logically have Yeshua buried on Tuesday Abib 14.

• 1st Month of Abib
• 01 02 03 04 05 06 07
• _________01 02 03 04
• 05 06 07 08 09 10 11
• 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
• 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
• 26 27 28 29 30______

Wednesday Burial Doctrines
Calendars which begin Abib 1 on Thursday will logically have Yeshua buried on Wednesday Abib 14.

• 1st Month of Abib
• 01 02 03 04 05 06 07
• ____________01 02 03
• 04 05 06 07 08 09 10
• 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
• 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
• 25 26 27 28 29 30___

Thursday Burial Doctrines
Calendars which begin Abib 1 on Friday will logically have Yeshua buried on Thursday Abib 14.

• 1st Month of Abib
• 01 02 03 04 05 06 07
• _______________01 02
• 03 04 05 06 07 08 09
• 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
• 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
• 24 25 26 27 28 29 30

Friday Burial Doctrines
Calendars which begin Abib 1 on Saturday will logically have Yeshua buried on Friday Abib 14.

• 1st Month of Abib
• 01 02 03 04 05 06 07
• __________________01
• 02 03 04 05 06 07 08
• 09 10 11 12 13 14 15
• 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
• 23 24 25 26 27 28 29
• 30__________________

And?

So with these simple and powerful observations I concluded it doesn't matter what calendar system or mode of counting you use.

Right, so with your "simple and powerful observations" you don't really need to even understand anyone else's calendar.

You will by default choose one of the seven options I laid out above to remain logically consistent with your own doctrine.

From here I asked myself two final questions:

1. What day of the week did God create the luminaries in Genesis 1:1-2:3?
2. What day of the week did the Qumran Community begin their calendar year in the Dead Sea Scrolls Mishmarot A (4Q320)?

The answers were undeniable:

1. God created the luminaries on the 4th Day/Wednesday.
2. The Qumran Community began their calendar year on the 4th Day/Wednesday.

If we recall our basic geometry lesson on right triangles we learned the following formula:

a² + b² = c²

This formula tells us that if you know the angles for two sides of a right triangle then you know the angle for the third side will be the sum of the first two sides.

And? So what? What does the Pythagoras Theorem have to do with any of this? You are going to explain by example, right?

No, you are not going to explain:

In closing since we know that God created the luminaries on the 4th Day/Wednesday and the Qumran Community began their calendar year on the 4th Day/Wednesday then we know that out of all seven possible start dates for Abib 1: the Tuesday Burial Doctrines are the only ones which align with our first two documents.

So what? Who says that the DSS calendar matches the Torah? Where did you prove that to be the case? You never did that.

=============================================
Calendar Year Begins with new plant life in the Spring
=============================================
"Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them”; and it was so. The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a third day."
Genesis 1:9‭-‬13 NASB1995

Matthew 13:1-2 (sea and land) ~ Genesis 1:9-10
Matthew 13:3-23 ~ Genesis 1:11-13
Matthew 13:24-30 ~ Genesis 1:11-2:3
Matthew 13:31-32 ~ Genesis 1:11-12
Matthew 13:33 ~ Genesis 1:14-31, (Genesis 40)
Matthew 13:34-35 ~ Psalms 78:2
Matthew 13:36-43 ~ Genesis 1:11-2:3
Matthew 13:44 ~ Genesis 1:11-13
Matthew 13:45-46 ~ Genesis 1:14-19
Matthew 13:47-50 ~ Genesis 1:20-28

=============================================
Calendar Year Begins on the 4th Day/Wednesday
=============================================

No, it doesn't, at least not for me, unless you can actually prove your assertions from the Torah: I don't accept DSS scrolls and fragments as equal to the Torah.

 

[HARK!]

As a side note, Alan Horvath has left us with with his insight as to where Yahshua was for those three days and nights.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Jesus said He would rise from the dead after 3 Days and 3 Nights...the women came to the tomb the day He rose from the dead...where exactly is the flaw? After all even in the other crucifixion teachings they all teach that the women showed up the day Yeshua rose from the dead...not after...

The flaw is that you have the women resting for an extra day for no reason.

In your example, Tuesday was the crucifixion. Wednesday was Matsa 1, so they rested. Then for some odd reason, the women decided to stay home on Thursday too. Why didn't they go to the tomb on Thursday? It was a working day. But you say they waited until Friday to visit the tomb. Why? And Friday was not "the morrow after the Sabbath".

 

[Humble Penny]

The flaw is that you have the women resting for an extra day for no reason.

In your example, Tuesday was the crucifixion. Wednesday was Matsa 1, so they rested. Then for some odd reason, the women decided to stay home on Thursday too. Why didn't they go to the tomb on Thursday? It was a working day. But you say they waited until Friday to visit the tomb. Why? And Friday was not "the morrow after the Sabbath".

Did I or Scripture say the women "rested" for an extra day? Did you consider that after the evening of Abib 15 that it would be night, and therefore dark and dangerous for the women to go out to the market and be walking alone at night? And not to mention most markets would be closed by sundown. That said you also have not considered the fact that whatever the exact ancient Jewish burial practices were, they needed time and money to buy the proper burial materials before going to the tomb. In short you haven't applied enough critical thinking.

 

[daq]

Exodion ~ "a release" (LXX-Septuagint)

 

[Humble Penny]

View attachment 311523

Exodion ~ "a release" (LXX-Septuagint)

Can you explain what the point of your image is? Also it's the exact layout I gave below and what others will find on post #195.

Friday Burial Doctrines
Calendars which begin Abib 1 on Saturday will logically have Yeshua buried on Friday Abib 14.

• 1st Month of Abib
• 01 02 03 04 05 06 07
• __________________01
• 02 03 04 05 06 07 08
• 09 10 11 12 13 14 15
• 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
• 23 24 25 26 27 28 29
• 30__________________

You clearly have shown that you want to stick to the Friday Burial and Sunday Resurrection doctrine, but you haven't addressed why your start date for Abib 1 doesn't align with Genesis 1:14-19 or the Dead Sea Scrolls Mishmarot A (4Q320).

 

[daq]

Can you explain what the point of your image is? Also it's the exact layout I gave below and what others will find on post #195.

Friday Burial Doctrines
Calendars which begin Abib 1 on Saturday will logically have Yeshua buried on Friday Abib 14.

• 1st Month of Abib
• 01 02 03 04 05 06 07
• __________________01
• 02 03 04 05 06 07 08
• 09 10 11 12 13 14 15
• 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
• 23 24 25 26 27 28 29

You clearly have shown that you want to stick to the Friday Burial and Sunday Resurrection doctrine, but you haven't addressed why your start date for Abib 1 doesn't align with Genesis 1:14-19 or the Dead Sea Scrolls Mishmarot A (4Q320).

If I read Exodus 19:1 to be the third hodesh, meaning the day of the hodesh, (as in 1 Samuel 20:5, instead of in the sense of a whole month), and I do, then your calendar is terribly amiss the way I see it. I read the text according to where I placed the pertinent passages on the calendar clip.

 

[Humble Penny]

If I read Exodus 19:1 to be the third hodesh, meaning the day of the hodesh, (as in 1 Samuel 20:5, instead of in the sense of a whole month), and I do, then your calendar is terribly amiss the way I see it. I read the text according to where I placed the pertinent passages on the calendar clip.

Brother daq you have simply made an assertion without actually showing it to be true. Exodus 19:1 is counting from the very day they came out of Egypt in the 14th Day of the 1st Month of Abib:

"In the 3rd month after the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai."

This means that the Israelites could not leave during the evening Sabbath of Abib 14. So that would mean they could only leave during the morning of Abib 15. This would lead you to Abib 15 of the 3rd Month. God is very precise on the dates He provides us in His Word, and is very specific when He wants us to know what day of the month it is:

Census of Moses
"Then the Lord spoke to Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tent of meeting, on the 1st of the 2nd month, in the 2nd year after they had come out of the land of Egypt, saying,"
Numbers 1:1 NASB1995

Passover Observed in the Wilderness of Sinai
"Thus the Lord spoke to Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the 1st month of the 2nd year after they had come out of the land of Egypt, saying, “Now, let the sons of Israel observe the Passover at its appointed time. On the 14th day of this month, at twilight, you shall observe it at its appointed time; you shall observe it according to all its statutes and according to all its ordinances.'
So Moses told the sons of Israel to observe the Passover. They observed the Passover in the 1st month, on the 14th day of the month, at twilight, in the wilderness of Sinai; according to all that the Lord had commanded Moses, so the sons of Israel did.”
Numbers 9:1‭-5 NASB1995

It is clear from these two passages that Moses is keeping an orderly account of their travels. And just to be extra sure the Israelites left Egypt on the 15th Day of the 1st Month of Abib let's consult another passage from Moses:

"These are the journeys of the sons of Israel, by which they came out from the land of Egypt by their armies, under the leadership of Moses and Aaron. Moses recorded their starting places according to their journeys by the command of the Lord, and these are their journeys according to their starting places. They journeyed from Rameses in the 1st month, on the 15th day of the 1st month; on the next day after the Passover the sons of Israel started out boldly in the sight of all the Egyptians, while the Egyptians were burying all their firstborn whom the Lord had struck down among them. The Lord had also executed judgments on their gods."
Numbers 33:1‭-‬4 NASB1995

Let's cross reference this with another passage:

"Then they set out from Elim, and all the congregation of the sons of Israel came to the wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the 15th day of the 2nd month after their departure from the land of Egypt."
Exodus 16:1 NASB1995

It's clear from Scripture that your assertion isn't supported brother daq. So what exactly are you proving with your calendar picture in post #308?

 

[Humble Penny]

View attachment 311523

Exodion ~ "a release" (LXX-Septuagint)

If I read Exodus 19:1 to be the third hodesh, meaning the day of the hodesh, (as in 1 Samuel 20:5, instead of in the sense of a whole month), and I do, then your calendar is terribly amiss the way I see it. I read the text according to where I placed the pertinent passages on the calendar clip.

Also you still have not explained why the day your calendar year for Abib 1 in post #308 doesn't align with when the calendar year begins in Genesis 1:14-19 and the Dead Sea Scrolls Mishmarot A (4Q320) as I have made clear in post #195. If you or anyone else who supports a Friday Burial and Sunday Resurrection would like to give an answer, please share.

 

[daq]

Also you still have not explained why the day your calendar year for Abib 1 in post #308 doesn't align with when the calendar year begins in Genesis 1:14-19 and the Dead Sea Scrolls Mishmarot A (4Q320) as I have made clear in post #195. If you or anyone else who supports a Friday Burial and Sunday Resurrection would like to give an answer, please share.

Yes, I have, because the DSS calendar is the same as your calendar because you copied theirs, which doesn't conform to the written texts mentioned above. You would do much better to stop making false claims about others, and start hearing what they say, and study to prove whether what they say is true or not according to the scripture. You have six chapter-sections of material and the key references are already in the calendar clip.

 

[Humble Penny]

Yes, I have, because the DSS calendar is the same as your calendar because you copied theirs, which doesn't conform to the written texts mentioned above. You would do much better to stop making false claims about others, and start hearing what they say, and study to prove whether what they say is true or not according to the scripture. You have six chapter-sections of material and the key references are already in the calendar clip.

Where is your proof that I "copied" the Dead Sea Scrolls calendar? How do you know whether I discovered the layout independently before coming across it?

So why exactly doesn't your calendar year begin the same as Genesis and the Dead Sea Scrolls? Didn't read a simple explanation.

What false claims have I made about other calendars when post #195 lets all calendar systems find which day of the week they start their year on and see whether or not God starts His calendar on the same Weekday?

 

[daq]

Where is your proof that I "copied" the Dead Sea Scrolls calendar? How do you know whether I discovered the layout independently before coming across it?

So why exactly doesn't your calendar year begin the same as Genesis and the Dead Sea Scrolls? Didn't read a simple explanation.

What false claims have I made about other calendars when post #195 lets all calendar systems find which day of the week they start their year on and see whether or not God starts His calendar on the same Weekday?

You'll need to prove to me by the scripture that your reading of Exodus 19:1 is the correct way in which it is supposed to be read. You are reading the statement as if it says, three months later...to the day, when in reality there is no indication in the text that your way is the correct way in which it should be understood.

The text says, "in the third hodesh"..."in this day". Study it out instead of simply choosing which way best suits what you want to believe.

 

[Humble Penny]

You'll need to prove to me by the scripture that your reading of Exodus 19:1 is the correct way in which it is supposed to be read. You are reading the statement as if it says, three months later...to the day, when in reality there is no indication in the text that your way is the correct way in which it should be understood.

The text says, "in the third hodesh"..."in this day". Study it out instead of simply choosing which way best suits what you want to believe.

post #311

 

[Humble Penny]

You'll need to prove to me by the scripture that your reading of Exodus 19:1 is the correct way in which it is supposed to be read. You are reading the statement as if it says, three months later...to the day, when in reality there is no indication in the text that your way is the correct way in which it should be understood.

The text says, "in the third hodesh"..."in this day". Study it out instead of simply choosing which way best suits what you want to believe.

And here's the interlinear:

The Hebrew LaTSaT comes from YaTSa "to go, come out". If we literally translate this passage we read:

Literal Translation
3rd Month come out sons Israel land Egypt this day came wilderness Sinai

Modified Translation
[In the] 3rd month came out [the] sons of Israel [from the] land [of] Egypt [and on] this day [they came into the] wilderness [of] Sinai.

Clearly this cannot be true because in Exodus 12 we read of the children of Israel leaving Egypt in the 14th Day of the 1st Month of Abib. Therefore the true reading of this passage is as follows:

Accurate Translation
[In the] 3rd month [after the] sons of Israel came out [from the] land [of] Egypt[, is the same] day [they came into the] wilderness [of] Sinai.

Pretty simple to understand when you understand the context correctly.

 

[daq]

post #311

You wrote in that post "in the third month", which I already disagreed with, because I already read it. It's the third hodesh, and it is the day of the hodesh, which is not thirty days. Are you not aware that when translators render the phrase new moon they are usually rendering the same word, hodesh? A hodesh can be a month or the day itself, which on the modern Jewish calendar is called Rosh Hodesh, (or chodesh).

2 Kings 4:23 KJV
23 And he said, Wherefore wilt thou go to him to day? it is neither new moon, [hodesh] nor sabbath. And she said, It shall be well.

There is a choice to be made, and it is according to context and comprehension, and I do not agree with your choice.

 

[Humble Penny]

You wrote in that post "in the third month", which I already disagreed with, because I already read it. It's the third hodesh, and it is the day of the hodesh, which is not thirty days. Are you not aware that when translators render the phrase new moon they are usually rendering the same word, hodesh? A hodesh can be a month or the day itself, which on the modern Jewish calendar is called Rosh Hodesh, (or chodesh).

2 Kings 4:23 KJV
23 And he said, Wherefore wilt thou go to him to day? it is neither new moon, [hodesh] nor sabbath. And she said, It shall be well.

There is a choice to be made, and it is according to context and comprehension, and I do not agree with your choice.

Good everyone is entitled to choose what they believe. Maybe you can comprehend post #317.

 

[daq]

And here's the interlinear:
View attachment 311592

The Hebrew LaTSat comes from YaTSa "to go, come out". If we literally translate the firt part of this passage we read:

Literal Translation
3rd Month come out sons Israel land Egypt this day came wilderness Sinai

Modified Translation
[In the] 3rd month came out [the] sons of Israel [from the] land [of] Egypt [and on] this day [they came into the] wilderness [of] Sinai.

Clearly this cannot be true because in Exodus 12 we read of the children of Israel leaving Egypt in the 14th Day of the 1st Month of Abib. Therefore the true reading of this passage is as follows:

Accurate Translation
[In the] 3rd month [after the] sons of Israel came out [from the] land [of] Egypt[, is the same] day [they came into the] wilderness [of] Sinai.

Pretty simple to understand when you understand the context correctly.

You do not believe I have already studied these things for myself? You still do not even realize what you are doing with the word hodesh: you apparently cannot see, or are not willing to believe, that it also is a day, the first day of a month, which is also called a hodesh.