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Did the Founding Fathers get anything Wrong?

2PhiloVoid

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Just because you deconstructed the text doesn’t mean I need to follow suit. I’ll stick with proper hermeneutics.

You're mistaken. Wholly mistaken. I didn't "deconstruct" the text.

You've confused my philosophical outlook and methods with those of the typical pseudo-deconstruction attempts of the atheist amateurs of today.
 
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Always in His Presence

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This is a Christian forum. You can expound on your beliefs all day. What I want is for you to stop imposing your beliefs on me.
How is expressing his beliefs clearly imposing them on you?

If you find it an imposition, then:

How is your expression of your beliefs not imposing on the rest of us?
 
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durangodawood

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That's exactly it. Why were your posts deemed so controversial? Makes no sense.
The proposal that the USA is an explicitly "Christian nation" is highly controversial. No mystery there.
 
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BCP1928

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In my opinion, the biggest mistake they made was to combine the duties of head of state and chief executive officer. I understand why they did it that way, they made their reasons clear but it has had unintended consequences in that it gives too much authority to the executive branch.
Imagine how England would look if the King was also the Prime Minister. It also forces us to elect a single person for two very different jobs. which is why we so often have Presidents who can't seem to do both at once.
 
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Nithavela

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Yes, I'm aware of the ages of our founders at the time. I'm not implying those under 25 are "worthless" in their opinions. But they often live "too much in the moment". That last development of the brain is what helps humans to think about long term consequences of decisions. That is, there are fewer "hold muh beer" moments. ;)

And there are also obviously exceptions to the rule, as Hamilton (and others in history) have demonstrated. And one proof is that they are remembered. So taking this into account, I'll compromise at age 21. :cool: But down to 18 is stupid, as we have learned. You may be old enough to serve in the military, being at a physical high point and easily mentally pliable, but it's not in anyone's best interest that you drink - or vote. I know what I'm talking about. I used to be 18. I know how my mind worked back then.
How about amaximum voting age? The brain deteriorates after a certain point.
 
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Hammster

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How many angles are posters going to try and use against your point? It's funny to me that out of a million possibilities that the Founding Fathers could have gotten wrong, it's become *your* argument for Christianity that's become the entirety of the subject.

I don't know what's going on here, but it's weird.
I don’t know either. Everyone could have ignored me. Strange.
 
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Always in His Presence

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How about a maximum voting age? The brain deteriorates after a certain point.
As long as the same age disqualifies holding a Government office. Let's make a mandatory retirement age for all three branches of government.
 
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Reasonably Sane

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How about amaximum voting age? The brain deteriorates after a certain point.
Though the mind can deteriorate in some ways, its core beliefs remain strong, unless literal mental illness is involved. i.e. the wisdom collected over a few years remains intact. Then again, there is truth to the phrase, "with age comes wisdom, but sometimes age comes alone."

Thing is, the only solution to that is requiring people to take a test in order to be allowed to vote. Obviously that would have a constitutional challenge, as it should. ;)

But it's easier for the under 25 group because it is quite "universal". It's part of the maturing process. The "end of life" mental decline is MUCH more various. Some are doing fine at 100 while others are done at 60, or even less. That's a 40 year gap.
 
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rambot

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How is expressing his beliefs clearly imposing them on you?

If you find it an imposition, then:

How is your expression of your beliefs not imposing on the rest of us?
The difference is the that Christian belief would include his (unwanted) subjugation to God, even though he doesn't think He exists.

I'm not sure I'd agree that that is imposing anything either. It is including, in my mind. He does not need to subjugate Himself to God for Christians to believe that God has sovereignty over us all. But we can't expect him to ACCEPT our Christian teachings if he doesn't believe them. We believe it. He doesn't. Stories over.

And just because WE believe it, doesn't mean that WE should be considered Christian nation.
 
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Always in His Presence

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The difference is the that Christian belief would include his (unwanted) subjugation to God, even though he doesn't think He exists.

I'm not sure I'd agree that that is imposing anything either. It is including, in my mind. He does not need to subjugate Himself to God for Christians to believe that God has sovereignty over us all. But we can't expect him to ACCEPT our Christian teachings if he doesn't believe them. We believe it. He doesn't. Stories over.

And just because WE believe it, doesn't mean that WE should be considered Christian nation.
We actually agree!

We believe it - he does not, stories over. zero imposition. You can't impose a belief unless you make it mandatory.
 
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Hammster

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The difference is the that Christian belief would include his (unwanted) subjugation to God, even though he doesn't think He exists.

I'm not sure I'd agree that that is imposing anything either. It is including, in my mind. He does not need to subjugate Himself to God for Christians to believe that God has sovereignty over us all. But we can't expect him to ACCEPT our Christian teachings if he doesn't believe them. We believe it. He doesn't. Stories over.

And just because WE believe it, doesn't mean that WE should be considered Christian nation.
The question was about the Founding Fathers and the Constitution. I gave my answer. Nowhere did I say that it was mandatory that anyone believe it. I did say it was a good idea, though.
 
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Nithavela

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As long as the same age disqualifies holding a Government office. Let's make a mandatory retirement age for all three branches of government.
If anything, the mandatory retirement age for members of government should come before the age where voting rights are rescinded. I think that actually running a country takes more brain power than deciding who should run it.

I'm not a scientist, and I think the ages should be based on scientific findings, but I think that nobody should serve in government beyond 70, and probably not vote after 80 to 85.
 
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Nithavela

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Though the mind can deteriorate in some ways, its core beliefs remain strong, unless literal mental illness is involved. i.e. the wisdom collected over a few years remains intact. Then again, there is truth to the phrase, "with age comes wisdom, but sometimes age comes alone."

Thing is, the only solution to that is requiring people to take a test in order to be allowed to vote. Obviously that would have a constitutional challenge, as it should. ;)

But it's easier for the under 25 group because it is quite "universal". It's part of the maturing process. The "end of life" mental decline is MUCH more various. Some are doing fine at 100 while others are done at 60, or even less. That's a 40 year gap.
When core beliefs stay strong but the world changes, which it does at an ever more rapid pace, the core beliefs no longer fit the current state of the world and thus are not valid criteria for being able to vote properly.
 
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rambot

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If anything, the mandatory retirement age for members of government should come before the age where voting rights are rescinded. I think that actually running a country takes more brain power than deciding who should run it.

I'm not a scientist, and I think the ages should be based on scientific findings, but I think that nobody should serve in government beyond 70, and probably not vote after 80 to 85.
Oh man, I ABSOLUTELY agree with top limits for aging as well..
 
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Hans Blaster

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Their initial voting issues and then the electoral college "fix" come to mind as something they could of done better.
They should have followed James Wilson's plan and gone with a direct election of the chief executive.
 
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