Did the eye evolve?

[OldWiseGuy]

Had lunch with an old church friend yesterday. He told me he recently had an eye exam, after which he asked the eye doctor if he believed the human eye evolved. The doctor replied, "No way."

I post this because some time ago during a crevo discussion someone told me I should ask my doctor if he believed in creation or evolution. Of course I wouldn't do this, but my friend did his. I wonder how many other doctors hold the same belief, and would reveal it to a patient.

 

[DaisyDay]

More than once, evidently. Compare vertebrate eyes with cephalopod eyes.

The Evolution of the Lens-Containing Eyes of Squids and Octopuses

Dr. Ben Carson believes the Egyptian pyramids were build to store grain.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

More than once, evidently. Compare vertebrate eyes with cephalopod eyes.

The Evolution of the Lens-Containing Eyes of Squids and Octopuses

I wouldn't trade the ability to see colors for the absence of a blind spot (or the ability to see well in ocean water). Would you?

 

[Chris V++]

Doctors, more than anyone, would have to know just how 'fearfully and wonderfully made' we are, so I have to believe the majority of them believe in some version of intelligent design over millions of random mutations producing happy accidents so to speak. It's really the theory of 'happy accidents.'

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Doctors, more than anyone, would have to know just how 'fearfully and wonderfully made' we are, so I have to believe the majority of them believe in some version of intelligent design.

If you want to believe evolution don't ever study anatomy.

 

[SkyWriting]

Had lunch with an old church friend yesterday. He told me he recently had an eye exam, after which he asked the eye doctor if he believed the human eye evolved. The doctor replied, "No way."

I post this because some time ago during a crevo discussion someone told me I should ask my doctor if he believed in creation or evolution. Of course I wouldn't do this, but my friend did his. I wonder how many other doctors hold the same belief, and would reveal it to a patient.

Most doctors believe in miracles.
74% Of Doctors Believe In Miracles, 55% Have Seen Them

 

[Brightmoon]

Short answer YES !
Long answer the gene for make-an-eye-here is the same in flies(arthropods) and in squid (mollusks) humans and mice (vertebrates). They did these experiments during the 90s where they switched the genes between the major branches of the bilaterians . The put the foreign genes in odd places so that no one could say that these were the organisms old genes working . So having mouse genes producing an eye on a fly’s leg was evidence that this was the mouse version of the gene. No one expected this to work as the vertebrate and arthropod lineages have been split apart since the Precambrian. In fact, traditionally, the mouse eye gene and the fly eye gene had different names at that time. This was not only evidence that these were the same genes, but also additional evidence for common descent . Scientists swiftly did this experiment with other major body patterning genes .
Since creationists couldnt deny these facts, the late 90s is when you start to see that silly Designer-uses-the-same-toolkit argument for separate creation that Justa and 007 keep trying to foist on us.

 

[SkyWriting]

More than once, evidently. Compare vertebrate eyes with cephalopod eyes.

The Evolution of the Lens-Containing Eyes of Squids and Octopuses

Dr. Ben Carson believes the Egyptian pyramids were build to store grain.

Wouldn't the light energy and heat levels be higher on land?

 

[Chris V++]

Kinesin protein takes a walk on a microtubule

'In case you have no clue what you're looking at, this is what is known as a kinesin protein, which is walking on microtubule. It, along many other proteins and other machine-like "creatures" exist deep inside of you, ensuring everything operates as it should.'

So this sort of thing is going on inside of our cells! Admittedly, the music could be better. Where are the tiny instruments?

 

[Brightmoon]

Additional info . The make-an-eye-here gene is the same gene. The downstream genes are different so the mouse gene on the fly’s leg made a fly eye

 

[Brightmoon]

Kinesin protein takes a walk on a microtubule

'In case you have no clue what you're looking at, this is what is known as a kinesin protein, which is walking on microtubule. It, along many other proteins and other machine-like "creatures" exist deep inside of you, ensuring everything operates as it should.'

. This a chemical process not a “creature “. The kinesin is able to attach and detach it’s branches to the microtubule . And this is an animated film . In real life it’s not quite so organized

 

[Chris V++]

This a chemical process not a “creature “. The kinesin is able to attach and detach it’s branches to the microtubule . And this is an animated film . In real life it’s not quite so organized

There is a grainy, black and white real life version out there on youtube somewhere. I was sort of sad when I found out the protein irl isn't really green and pink.

 

[Brightmoon]

Doctors, more than anyone, would have to know just how 'fearfully and wonderfully made' we are, so I have to believe the majority of them believe in some version of intelligent design over millions of random mutations producing happy accidents so to speak. It's really the theory of 'happy accidents.'

. Most doctors don’t take as many biology classes as you think . Most don’t do even comparative vertebrate anatomy classes . They certainly don’t take evolution classes as evolution is multidisciplinary involving everything from geology, detailed non-human anatomy, genetics, radiophysics Etc . Not classes a medical doctor would usually take.

 

[Lost4words]

God created everything.

 

[Brightmoon]

God created everything.

As a Christian I agree . But that not the issue here. Some scientifically illiterate people think that evolution isn’t possible. Scientists DO have evidence that it’s not only possible but that it’s responsible for all organisms living and extinct being distant cousins - from bacteria to humans

 

[Brightmoon]

Wouldn't the light energy and heat levels be higher on land?

depends on your latitude , your altitude and the season in temperate areas

 

[Chris V++]

I can accept microevolution; house cats and tigers 'evolving' from a common ancestor, mutating from the same 'kind,' to use a biblical word. Same for wolves and chihuahuas, geckos and alligators.
I can only speak to house pets.

 

[Brightmoon]

But housecats and tigers aren’t the same “kind” . They’re in different genera , Felis for housecats and Panthera for tigers . In English it means they aren’t that closely related . Chimps and bonobos are actually more closely related to humans than that . The only reason that we’re in different genera ( Pan for the chimps and Homo for humans ) is because the Victorians didn’t like humans being in the same genus as an animal . We’re currently in the same Family grouping Hominidae and the old family name for the non-human traditional apes( Pongidae) is retired

 

[Brightmoon]

In Reptilomorpha vertebrates, there are 2 main groups :
DIAPSIDS
1Snakes and lizards together.
2Birds and other dinosaurs together
3Crocodilians
4Turtles of all types

SYNAPSIDS
Mammals including humans

Diapsids also includes pterosaurs but I didn’t add them because they’re all extinct . Unlike the dinosaurs which do have living descendants in birds. Dimetrodon ( synapsid) is more closely related to you than to a dinosaur

“Kind” isn’t used by life scientists as it doesn’t have a consistent meaning. Even you grouped geckos with alligators and they aren’t closely related

 

[Chris V++]

But housecats and tigers aren’t the same “kind”

They could be if at some point if 'all organisms living and extinct [are] distant cousins.'
I don't know if Genesis was that specific about 'kinds' and how it relates to genera.

I do remember learning we are more genetically similar to pigs than chimps?