Did the eye evolve?

[OldWiseGuy]

Sure, he's the on-call doctor. You don't have those in the US?

We have emergency departments that are open 24/7. However they are staffed by other doctors.

 

[Gene2memE]

There's good evidence that the eye evolved, starting with fossil evidence from the very early Cambrian about 530-540 million years ago [1].

Complex eyes have been found on predator species about 515 million years old. So eye evolution appears to have been quite rapid. [2]

Until the 1990s, it was thought the eye had evolved many times independently (as many as 65 times). However, genetic evidence shows a single highly conserved gene and its variations (pax6] as being common to all sighted creatures. [3] [4]

The genetic evidence suggests a pre-Cambrian development of sight in very simple single cell creatures. Pax6 and some related genes existed for other purposes, and were modified more than half a billion years ago. [5] Really simple eyes still exist in single cell organisms like Euglena.

If I recall correctly, much of the current thinking is that the first true animal eyes were modifications of existing pigment structures in really basic flatworm like creatures. These were fixed, facing upwards and could only detect changes in light levels (basically shadows).

On doctors opinions about evolution:
It doesn't matter if a physician is incredulous that the eye could develop or not - their experience as doctors is IRRELEVANT when investigating the evolutionary development of the eye.

My wife is a surgeon, but her understanding of evolutionary biology is barely better than that of the general populace. She doesn't care, because whether the eye, or any other human body structure, evolved or not has nothing to do with her job as a surgeon.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

My wife is a surgeon, but her understanding of evolutionary biology is barely better than that of the general populace. She doesn't care, because whether the eye, or any other human body structure, evolved or not has nothing to do with her job as a surgeon.

I like it. The past history of anatomy is unimportant to medicine. Good to know.

 

[DogmaHunter]

We have emergency departments that are open 24/7. However they are staffed by other doctors.

So, basically.... doctors that work on sundays?

Well how about that.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I like it. The past history of anatomy is unimportant to medicine. Good to know.

Medicine and surgery... not the same thing.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Medicine and surgery... not the same thing.

"Surgery – branch of medicine that uses operative techniques to investigate or treat both disease and injury, or to help improve bodily function or appearance."

Outline of health sciences - Wikipedia

 

[tas8831]

I'm sure that happened.

.

It happens pretty frequently among evangelicals - and, of course, evangelicals are totally cool with adultery and money-grubbing and such, so long as you hate liberals and abortion. That seems to be the only things such folk care about.

On another note, as I may have mentioned before, when I was in graduate school, one of our requirements was to teach remedial and/or prep classes for medical students. You would be surprised how many medical students flunk human anatomy.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It happens pretty frequently among evangelicals - and, of course, evangelicals are totally cool with adultery and money-grubbing and such, so long as you hate liberals and abortion. That seems to be the only things such folk care about.

On another note, as I may have mentioned before, when I was in graduate school, one of our requirements was to teach remedial and/or prep classes for medical students. You would be surprised how many medical students flunk human anatomy.

I have already suggested that evolutionists know little about the anatomy they believe evolved. If they did they might appreciate the incredulity of creation believers regarding evolution.

 

[DaisyDay]

Wouldn't the light energy and heat levels be higher on land?

Yes, and?

 

[pitabread]

The past history of anatomy is unimportant to medicine

He said surgery, not medicine.

Evolutionary biology does have application to the medical field.

 

[pitabread]

I have already suggested that evolutionists know little about the anatomy they believe evolved. If they did they might appreciate the incredulity of creation believers regarding evolution.

Incredulity gets one nowhere though. You need to go beyond mere incredulity and start trying to explain it under a different paradigm. However, as we've seen in this other thread, this appears to be a dead-end for creationism.

 

[DaisyDay]

"Surgery – branch of medicine that uses operative techniques to investigate or treat both disease and injury, or to help improve bodily function or appearance."

Outline of health sciences - Wikipedia

Are dogs and chihuahuas the same thing?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Are dogs and chihuahuas the same thing?

?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Incredulity gets one nowhere though. You need to go beyond mere incredulity and start trying to explain it under a different paradigm. However, as we've seen in this other thread, this appears to be a dead-end for creationism.

I don't see the need to go to great lengths to try and explain evolution away. I just don't believe it, so most of my unscientific comments are born of incredulity.

 

[pitabread]

I don't see the need to go to great lengths to try and explain evolution away.

Evolutionary theory has explanatory power and utility. In order to replace it, you need something with equivalent explanatory power and utility.

 

[DaisyDay]

?

Chihuahuas are a subset of dogs; surgery is a subset of medicine. Just as one wouldn't say that dogs are chihuahuas, one would also not say that medicine is surgery.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

"Surgery – branch of medicine that uses operative techniques to investigate or treat both disease and injury, or to help improve bodily function or appearance."

Outline of health sciences - Wikipedia

Another example of creationists not understanding that a word can have 2 different meanings.

From Definition of MEDICINE
a: the science and art dealing with the maintenance of health and the prevention, alleviation, or cure of disease.

b: the branch of medicine concerned with the nonsurgical treatment of disease.

 

[Gene2memE]

Asked my wife about her sub-specialty and how evolutionary biology plays into it. She's a surgical oncologist, with a focus on breasts and the endocrine system.

Turns out breasts are a bit of a black box in evolutionary terms - the evidence is that they're modified sweat glands, but they fossilise very poorly so the whens and hows of their evolution are fuzzy, at beast.

Endocrine surgery has a little more to do with evolutionary biology - there are several post surgical drug treatments that have been developed by studying the evolutionary history of the endocrine system, to help the body maintain the right balance of various hormones, particularly steroids.

 

[DogmaHunter]

"Surgery – branch of medicine that uses operative techniques to investigate or treat both disease and injury, or to help improve bodily function or appearance."

Outline of health sciences - Wikipedia

So just like I said: not the same thing.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Chihuahuas are a subset of dogs; surgery is a subset of medicine. Just as one wouldn't say that dogs are chihuahuas, one would also not say that medicine is surgery.

Point taken.