Did the Apostle Peter Ever Go To Rome? Part I

[Root of Jesse]

Outsidethecamp is just saying nothing is recorded in the NT of Peter going to Rome. The book of Acts is the NT record of the Early Church.

See Via Crucis' response.

 

[DoubleZero]

Because Jesus told us that Peter was His representative after He was gone.

Herein lies the problem. Jesus is not gone. He is the Head of the Church. The Church is not headless. He is administering, comforting, teaching, leading and guiding His Church by His Holy Spirit. The Spirit of Christ.

Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Herein lies the problem. Jesus is not gone. He is the Head of the Church. The Church is not headless. He is administering, comforting, teaching, leading and guiding His Church by His Holy Spirit. The Spirit of Christ.

Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

That's not what the angel told Mary Magdalene. He is physically gone, and because we're weak, we need a visible representative. Jesus is the Head, Peter is his visible representative, through the body of Christ, the Church, He administers, comforts, teaches, leads and guides.
The Holy Spirit is why Peter was able to come back after denying Christ three times, and why the other apostles, too, after cowering in fear of the Jews and abandoning Christ.

 

[DoubleZero]

That's not what the angel told Mary Magdalene. He is physically gone, and because we're weak, we need a visible representative. Jesus is the Head, Peter is his visible representative, through the body of Christ, the Church, He administers, comforts, teaches, leads and guides.
The Holy Spirit is why Peter was able to come back after denying Christ three times, and why the other apostles, too, after cowering in fear of the Jews and abandoning Christ.

Actually, because we are weak, we need the indwelling Holy Spirit, the presence of God with us. The visible representative of Christ are all those who belong to Him and have His spirit. As each member of the Body represents Jesus Christ, no member of the Body can replace Him as the Head. He is irreplaceable and does not need to be replaced since He is on earth by His Spirit guiding the Church and giving Life to it.

The Father and the Son make their abode with the one that loves Jesus and keeps His words.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Actually, because we are weak, we need the indwelling Holy Spirit, the presence of God with us. The visible representative of Christ are all those who belong to Him and have His spirit. As each member of the Body represents Jesus Christ, no member of the Body can replace Him as the Head. He is irreplaceable and does not need to be replaced since He is on earth by His Spirit guiding the Church and giving Life to it.

The Father and the Son make their abode with the one that loves Jesus and keeps His words.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

If other fallible human beings are what we have to represent Christ, no thanks. Nobody's trying to replace Christ, but to represent him. Do you understand what a representative is? People who don't have a visible head will often fall by the wayside, as has the Church since, especially, the Protestant Reformation, where His one Church has split into 35,000 or so denominations. BTW, denominations are anti-Biblical...

Of course you ignored what the angel said to Mary Magdalene "He is not here, He is risen."...

 

[Hank77]

Of course you ignored what the angel said to Mary Magdalene "He is not here, He is risen."...

Where was here? In the tomb.
He had risen from the dead.

 

[DoubleZero]

If other fallible human beings are what we have to represent Christ, no thanks. Nobody's trying to replace Christ, but to represent him. Do you understand what a representative is? People who don't have a visible head will often fall by the wayside, as has the Church since, especially, the Protestant Reformation, where His one Church has split into 35,000 or so denominations. BTW, denominations are anti-Biblical...

Of course you ignored what the angel said to Mary Magdalene "He is not here, He is risen."...

You are ignoring the scriptures or do not know them.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Col_1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Those who are filled with the Spirit of Christ, reflect the character and behavior of Christ and are not only representatives of Him but ambassadors, too.

2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

God was in Christ Jesus reconciling the world to Himself. And He has made a race of "christs", not that we are Christ, but we contain Him as He dwells in those who love Him and keep His word. Jesus Christ is the present, living Leader of His Body.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

He went away so that He could come back and dwell in hearts by faith.

 

[Hank77]

As each member of the Body represents Jesus Christ, no member of the Body can replace Him as the Head.

Indeed. Men are weak and tend to believe in what they can see. Doubting Thomas. Not having one man as a representative for Him, keeps us always looking to Him for our salvation, guidance, and peace.
We are to be his representatives by walking in His ways, as you have said. We do not claim to be infallible which should keep others from relying on us and keep them relying on Him.

 

[DoubleZero]

Indeed. Men are weak and tend to believe in what they can see. Doubting Thomas. Not having one man as a representative for Him, keeps us always looking to Him for our salvation, guidance, and peace.
We are to be his representatives by walking in His ways, as you have said. We do not claim to be infallible which should keep others from relying on us and keep them relying on Him.

Amen! There is only One, that has earned our worship and that we are to look to and follow.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Where was here? In the tomb.
He had risen from the dead.

Right. He wasn't here. He's in heaven. With a representative on Earth he appointed. Peter.

 

[Hank77]

Right. He wasn't here. He's in heaven. With a representative on Earth he appointed. Peter.

When those words were said, He was here in His resurrected body, and spent another 40 days teaching the disciples many things.

 

[DoubleZero]

Right. He wasn't here. He's in heaven. With a representative on Earth he appointed. Peter.

Who dwells in you, Jesse? Peter or Jesus? Who is with you, even unto the end of the world? The ROCK, right? Who is the ROCK?

Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1Co_10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I have always thought that when Jesus said to peter 'and on this Rock I build my church' could it have meant, as we know, that the name Peter means 'Rock' and as he had strong faith Jesus was referring to his strong faith as being what the church would be built upon?

I think you nailed that one.....

 

[DoubleZero]

I have always thought that when Jesus said to peter 'and on this Rock I build my church' could it have meant, as we know, that the name Peter means 'Rock' and as he had strong faith Jesus was referring to his strong faith as being what the church would be built upon?

Or perhaps the Church is built on the object of what the Holy Spirit revealed to Peter, namely that Jesus is the Christ.

After all, that was Jesus' question. "Who do men say that I am"?

But the Church isn't built on who men say that Jesus is. The church is built on the revelation given to Peter. And that revelation is that Jesus is indeed the CHRIST. The church is built on Christ. There are several other scriptures that corroborate and provide a confirming witness to this truth. Peter himself calls Jesus Christ the "Chief Corner stone"

A chief corner stone is laid and then the structure is built on it.

1 Peter 2:6
Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Ephesians 2:20
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

 

[tz620q]

A chief corner stone is laid and then the structure is built on it.

Ephesians 2:20
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

What is the purpose of the corner stone in a building? What is the purpose of the foundation? Who does the building of the structure? I think these are all pertinent to your points.

 

[DoubleZero]

What is the purpose of the corner stone in a building? What is the purpose of the foundation? Who does the building of the structure? I think these are all pertinent to your points.

Very good! Yes, the builder and maker is God.

Hebrews 11:10
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

1 Corinthians 3:11
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

 

[tz620q]

Very good! Yes, the builder and maker is God.

Hebrews 11:10
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

1 Corinthians 3:11
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Truly!! The cornerstone is the first stone set in a building and marks one corner. From it all measurements start in laying the foundation. These start from the cornerstone going out in one direction and laying the second cornerstone, then going from the first cornerstone out in the other direction and laying the third cornerstone, finally the last cornerstone is laid and the diagonals measured to check for squareness. So theologically all things are measured from Christ and all stones are laid where Christ intends them to be. Pertinent to our topic is the fact that Christ's intent was not to stay as the only stone in the building. He intentionally built a foundation while on earth on which the apostles could build. We have to assume that each apostle was building where Christ intended.

So far, hopefully, I have not said anything that controversial. But now we come to Peter and why both Peter and Paul ended their lives in Rome, as is attested by many historical sources. It seems reasonable that they saw Rome as the center and ruling entity behind a large area of the world at that time. If one wants to spread a new message, is it easier to do that with the support of the ruling powers or against the ruling powers? So a presence in Rome was necessary; but as was shown problematic because the Emperors saw themselves as semi-divine (not really that much of a problem in a polytheistic area). I contend that the witness of the martyrs was as great an event in the spread of Christianity as any particular sermons the men made.

What are your thoughts on this aspect of the OP?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Did the Apostle Peter Ever Go To Rome? Part I

I vote no.............

Btw, which denominations believe he was, besides the RCC and EOC?



.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The reason it doesn't matter is that the Gospels tell us that Jesus commissioned Peter Himself, so it didn't matter where Peter was. Does Pope Francis no longer remain Pope when he travels? So the problem is really for those who deny that Peter was ever in Rome.
It doesn't matter where Peter was, where he was, there was the Pope. When he died, they appointed a successor.

Then why does Roman Catholicism and the EOC make such a big deal out of it?

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...n-peter-too-much.6958045/page-28#post44224326
Does the Roman Church focus on Peter too much

This was mentioned in another thread by a RC concerning the Peter and Paul of the NC in the Bible.
Question does the Roman Church put too much focus on the Peter and not enough on the Paul. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by JacktheCatholic

I can understand why gentiles would hold a special affection towards Paul vs. Peter.

But we all know that Paul did not receive the Keys either in scripture.

Originally Posted by Albion

How in the world does no keys to Peter lead to no New Testament when the record of Christ speaking to Peter in in the New Testament? The one surest thing in all of Christianity is the Bible. It is eternal and never-changing, even if men may change their views of it. That is what everything comes from and why Protestantism, like it or not, is always relevant--that is to say, because it always can point back to the Word of God himself, the God who cannot be wrong in his revelation, and see what it says.

How much different is this from those churches which follow some constantly evolving stream of ideas and are cut loose from that which ultimately is our sure foundation.

.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Did the Apostle Peter Ever Go To Rome? Part I

I vote no.............

Btw, which denominations believe he was, besides the RCC and EOC?



.

Lutherans. We believe that Peter was martyred there.