Did Satan sin before or after Creation week?

The Hebrew word Satan means the adversary, the opponent / opposer or to withstand against.

The Old Testament often depicts Satan as an antagonistic character or an adversary in the judgment of mankind on earth. He was allowed to enter into The Eden Garden to tempt and deceive Eve into disobeying. Satan was disputing with Michael the Arch Angel over the body of Moses.

Satan was allowed to play a part in judging Job. He was allowed to provoke King David and stand up against Israel in 1Ch 21:1. In Zec 3:2 Satan was interfering with Joshua. Satan had even entered into Judas Iscariot.

We find that Satan was interfering with Jesus, as he tried to persuade and tempt Jesus in various things.

So Satan had always been here on earth working as an adversary challenging and judging against mankind. But what Rev 12 is saying that a great war happened in heaven because when Christ was born, then the Dragon / Satan began to attack the woman, Israel and her seed which was Christ.

:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

This Greek word { DREW } means to call someone to hail others to come to you or to drag a net to catch fish or game. It is used in Joh 21:, Act 8:, Act 14: and Act 17: to describe as someone gathering others and calling them to gather or come to you. Also, as we see in Joh 21: where peter drew or dragged the net to catch fish.

:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The bible specifically shows that this war takes place exactly at the time after Christ.

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And see, I never knew this until I read the bible. I did not know a lot of things until one day I just opened the book and read it.

ToBeLoved said:

Yes.

But angels were created before Genesis happened.

Angels are not part of creation in the Bible.

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Gen 2 vs1 "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them." And who would the host of heaven be? I have brought this forward not for what you have said, but to show others that what is written is more important than what is taught by man and passed down by word of mouth. Satan was a lier from the beginning. To lie is to sin. He lied in the garden and he knew what would enter man if he could get them to eat and not obey the commandment. The implication of Gen 2 vs 1 is that satan got right to work at the beginning of creation. Was this his first lie? I guess it depends on weather he had the opertunity to open his mouth before this. LOL

GTW27 said:

Gen 2 vs1 "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them." And who would the host of heaven be? I have brought this forward not for what you have said, but to show others that what is written is more important than what is taught by man and passed down by word of mouth. Satan was a lier from the beginning. To lie is to sin. He lied in the garden and he knew what would enter man if he could get them to eat and not obey the commandment. The implication of Gen 2 vs 1 is that satan got right to work at the beginning of creation. Was this his first lie? I guess it depends on weather he had the opertunity to open his mouth before this. LOL

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I don’t think it was angels.

CharismaticLady said:

What do you think about the scripture in the OP. Was the Garden of Eden made for Lucifer? And was his first sin his lie to Eve, which brought the curse also on the snake besides man and woman?

I wonder why Lucifer would change form from his glorious self to a created animal?

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Why do you think Lucifer had to “change” into an animal?


Demons were cast into swine by Jesus.

Demons are mobile.

We see in the bible that Satan himself, LEFT heaven and chose to dwell on the earth because he wanted to rebel against God.

Would you not agree that IT IS NOT UNTIL The Anointing / Holy Spirit in Christ came to earth in Jesus that we find that Satan then returned to the heavens and gather together a third of the angels and then made war against God and then - Satan was cast out of heaven forever.

Before this, the Angels had left heaven in rebellion - but had not been cast out due to warfare in an attempt to defeat God.

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

When Jesus came to earth - then - Satan attempted to return to heaven and make war against God in Heaven, seeing that he could not persuade, entice or tempt Jesus to submit to him or just commit suicide by various methods, and then at this very time - Satan made war in heaven against the faithful angels and God and he and his angels were cast out of heaven forever.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

faith confidence hope said:

We see in the bible that Satan himself, LEFT heaven and chose to dwell on the earth because he wanted to rebel against God.

Would you not agree that IT IS NOT UNTIL The Anointing / Holy Spirit in Christ came to earth in Jesus that we find that Satan then returned to the heavens and gather together a third of the angels and then made war against God and then - Satan was cast out of heaven forever.

Before this, the Angels had left heaven in rebellion - but had not been cast out due to warfare in an attempt to defeat God.

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

When Jesus came to earth - then - Satan attempted to return to heaven and make war against God in Heaven, seeing that he could not persuade, entice or tempt Jesus to submit to him or just commit suicide by various methods, and then at this very time - Satan made war in heaven against the faithful angels and God and he and his angels were cast out of heaven forever.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

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Your verse at the bottom conflicts with your own assertion.

They were cast out of heaven.

How can a holy God coincide with wickedness?

Hello - ToBeLoved .

I think I understand what you are saying.

You are looking at my statement that seems to corroborate and confirm the Biblical narrative how that Satan, in the Old Testament, who has not yet been banned or thrown out of heaven yet.

In the Old Testament, Satan has left his first estate, and LEFT His OWN HABITATION in heaven and has chosen to come to earth and he is an adversary { a judge } to the man, that God has created.

As we see throughout the Old Testament that Satan and specific Angels are allowed by God to test individuals here on earth. As we see with Adam and Eve in the Garden and where God even sends - " lying spirits " in the mouths of False Prophets to cause them EVEN LIE MORE than they had previously been lying.

1Ki 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, presenting before the LORD, and said, I will persuade Ahab.

:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? / HOW ? And THE SPIRIT said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And " the Lord said " You shalt persuade him, and prevail also: GO FORTH, and do so.

:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Again - 2Ch_18:21 A Spirit said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And " the Lord said " You shalt persuade him, and prevail also: GO FORTH, and do so.
:22 behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

From the beginning, Satan and other angels were given permission and authority from God to test and manipulate the created humans themselves, to sin. Satan was even allowed to test and tempt Eve, Adam and also Job. - 1Ch_21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and tempt David to number Israel.

The Bible shows that - a holy God can coincide and even be working himself - with and alongside wickedness, evil and perversion.

Jesus Christ himself was among evil men and women, God even used the wicked Romans to fulfill his goal and purpose in the death of his only Son, who was killed by the hands of very wicked men.

Satan also was allowed, by God, to tempt, seduce and bribe Jesus. Satan offered Jesus the control and power of all of the kingdoms of the earth if Jesus would simply bow down and worship him and serve him. Satan was allowed to tempt Jesus to commit suicide by jumping from various high places.

Yet, through all of this, this was not something that God would prevent Satan and spirits from leaving the earth and existing in other places in the heavens. This is what Satan and other angels had been doing since the beginning.

It was not until God morphed / formed and manifested his Holy Spirit into a man called Jesus who was born from a woman, then we see Satan is very upset, the Angels are very upset....

Then Satan / The Dragon - goes upward into the heavens and calls upon other Angels to make war against God and other non- participating angels themselves, and Satan and HIS angels are cast out and forced down to earth and thrown out of heaven forever.

Revelation 12, it is saying that the war happened because when Christ was born, then the Dragon / Satan began to attack the woman, Israel, and her seed which was Christ.

:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. :6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, :8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

I hope you can understand what I was saying, I was not trying to rewrite the whole bible, I simply humbly provided real scriptures that represent my faith. This is important for me personally.

eleos1954 said:

Seems to me as my original post . ... if it don't seem that way to you so be it.

Lucifer sinned in heaven, cast to the earth after the Lord was finished creating everything ... and it was good ... God gave Adam dominion over a perfect earth. sin entered into the earth and mankind after Adam and Eve sinned. Did that happen 1 second after creation or how long who knows ... but seems to me was after creation.

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Why do you think that Satan was cast out after the earth was created?

ToBeLoved said:

Why do you think that Satan was cast out after the earth was created?

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Revelation 12:12

English Standard Version
Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”