Did Noah find favor or grace?

[Van]

Did Noah find "grace" or "favor." Favor, according to the NASB, but other translations use grace, such as the KJV or the NKJV, or YLT. The Hebrew word is translated both as grace and favor by the KJV and so the context must be used to discern which way to translate the Hebrew word. And in the opinion of the modern translators, in Genesis 6:8, the word should be translated as favor. This is how the NIV, NASB, ESV, and HCSB translate the word in Genesis 6:8.

Calvinism is so flimsy a premise it must be supported by translation shopping to make its points. Why would Calvinists "favor" translating the word as grace? Because that would support the fiction that God did not find him a righteous man, but made him righteous using irresistible grace. But that idea is without merit. And since Noah did find favor because of his character, then the Calvinist premise that Genesis 6:5 phrase "every intent of the thoughts of the heart are continuously evil" means fallen men are unable to seek after God and strive to obey him is false.

Folks when you see the phrase "found favor (or grace) in the sight or eyes of God or a person" the idea is something in the characteristics of the person looks good or favorable to the other. In our case Noah was a righteous man and thus found favor in the eyes of God.

Bottom line, Total Spiritual Inability is not supported by Genesis 6:5 in light of Genesis 6:8.

 

[MamaZ]

actually Noah was chosen to build the ark.. And if you notice that not even one person on the face of the earth got on that ark except Noah and His family.. Wow imagine that..

 

[beloved57]

Did Noah find "grace" or "favor." Favor, according to the NASB, but other translations use grace, such as the KJV or the NKJV, or YLT. The Hebrew word is translated both as grace and favor by the KJV and so the context must be used to discern which way to translate the Hebrew word. And in the opinion of the modern translators, in Genesis 6:8, the word should be translated as favor. This is how the NIV, NASB, ESV, and HCSB translate the word in Genesis 6:8.

Calvinism is so flimsy a premise it must be supported by translation shopping to make its points. Why would Calvinists "favor" translating the word as grace? Because that would support the fiction that God did not find his a righteous man, but made his righteous using irresistible grace. But that idea is without merit. And since Noah did find favor because of his character, then the Calvinist premise that Genesis 6:5 phrase "every intent of the thoughts of the heart are continuously evil" means fallen men are unable to seek after God and strive to obey him is false.

Folks when you see the phrase "found favor (or grace) in the sight or eyes of God or a person" the idea is something in the characteristics of the person looks good or favorable to the other. In our case Noah was a righteous man and thus found favor in the eyes of God.

Bottom line, Total Spiritual Inability is not supported by Genesis 6:5 in light of Genesis 6:8.

More scripture twisting to boost up the pride of man..

 

[beloved57]

actually Noah was chosen to build the ark.. And if you notice that not even one person on the face of the earth got on that ark except Noah and His family.. Wow imagine that..

That was Gods purpose all the time, He has already determined who is in christ the ark of saftey, those chosen in Him before the world began, by grace..

2 tim 1:

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[heymikey80]

It's supported just fine. Noah didn't receive grace (that is, unmerited favor) with God because he was righteous. Noah was righteous because he received grace (that is, unmerited favor) with God.

Were it not so, Noah wouldn't have received grace. Noah would've received just payment for his righteousness.

Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. Rom 4:4
​

 

[Epiphoskei]

So, Noah "merited" salvation.

They keep on saying "It's not works based salvation," but then statements like these are made.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Tthe writer of Hebrew Chapter 11 in Noah was named as one of the Hall of Faith revealed that salvation has never been by works to earn God's grace. Faith is part of God's power, not man. Faith is believing something that God promises will happen, not because we will it to happen. In verse 7, 'By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.' Because Noah, by faith, believed that God would destroy mankind with a flood, Noah obediently built an enormous ark. By God's grace, he and his family were saved from destruction of the world-wide flood.

 

[nobdysfool]

The opponents of Calvinism appear to be the ones checking myriad translations, trying to find one that fits with their pre-conceived notions of the supposedly powerful "autonomous will" of man, whereby man can find favor with God by being good enough, and self-righteous enough to cause God to declare them righteous, based on their own works, rather than on God's Grace. And they say Calvinism is based on weak arguments.....

The history of Noah is a type, a foreshadow, of the future history of mankind. Most will not find salvation, because they cannot. Noah is the type of true Christians, the Ark is a type of Christ. Noah found favor with God, not because Noah did anything, but because God chose Noah, and shed His Grace on him. Noah obeyed God because of God's Grace, not because of Noah's "wise choice".

The anti-Calvinists are steeped in the rebellion of Adam, and manifest that rebellion in the denial of the pre-eminence and power of God's Grace.

 

[nobdysfool]

So, Noah "merited" salvation.

They keep on saying "It's not works based salvation," but then statements like these are made.

Of course! They cannot resolve the inherent inconsistency of their false views any other way.

 

[zon3d]

Even the people in the OT were saved by grace.

 

[Van]

Lets, see, here is the summary. Calvinists post that Noah was chosen to build the ark, and while true skips the issue of just why was Noah chosen. So a non-germane post that attempts to change the subject. Then we get the usual charge claiming those who disagree with Calvinism twist scripture. Then another post that misses the mark, discussing the fact that Noah did receive grace, but skipping the fact that Noah found favor in the eyes of God before God bestowed grace upon him. Then the usual claim that because Noah found favor that somehow earned his salvation.

And that's it folks! Noah found favor in the eyes of God because he was a righteous man. Therefore fallen men have the ability, even though every intent of the thoughts of their heart is wicked, to seek God and to obey God. Total Spiritual Inability is false doctrine in light of Genesis 6:5-8.

 

[beloved57]

Lets, see, here is the summary. Calvinists post that Noah was chosen to build the ark, and while true skips the issue of just why was Noah chosen. So a non-germane post that attempts to change the subject. Then we get the usual charge claiming those who disagree with Calvinism twist scripture. Then another post that misses the mark, discussing the fact that Noah did receive grace, but skipping the fact that Noah found favor in the eyes of God before God bestowed grace upon him. Then the usual claim that because Noah found favor that somehow earned his salvation.

And that's it folks! Noah found favor in the eyes of God because he was a righteous man. Therefore fallen men have the ability, even though every intent of the thoughts of their heart is wicked, to seek God and to obey God. Total Spiritual Inability is false doctrine in light of Genesis 6:5-8.

Noah was chosen by grace..gen 6:

8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

 

[Epiphoskei]

Lets, see, here is the summary. Calvinists post that Noah was chosen to build the ark, and while true skips the issue of just why was Noah chosen. So a non-germane post that attempts to change the subject. Then we get the usual charge claiming those who disagree with Calvinism twist scripture. Then another post that misses the mark, discussing the fact that Noah did receive grace, but skipping the fact that Noah found favor in the eyes of God before God bestowed grace upon him. Then the usual claim that because Noah found favor that somehow earned his salvation.

And that's it folks! Noah found favor in the eyes of God because he was a righteous man. Therefore fallen men have the ability, even though every intent of the thoughts of their heart is wicked, to seek God and to obey God. Total Spiritual Inability is false doctrine in light of Genesis 6:5-8.

Then what you do believe is salvation by merit after all. You can't escape that conclusion if salvation is based on intrinsic goodness.

If your interpretation were that Noah was morally neutral and given an offer to be saved by building an ark, but he had free will to do it or not, that's a typcial free will view. But that's not what "favor" can mean.

If your interpretation is that Noah was intrinsically worthy and therefore he was offered salvation because of his merit, that's Catholic.

For what it's worth, RT says he found favor as well. He was worthy. But not worthy to recieve grace, worthy because God predestined him to be such in His grace.

Indeed, Noah found favor. Both Rome and RT would agree, though we would differ on the question of why he found favor. But this doesn't help you, it just once again illustrates the fact that there is Rome and there is Reformation, but there is nothing in between.

 

[beloved57]

God preserved noah by his grace, from marrying those wicked women, of cains line.

gal 6:


2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

 

[Van]

Noah found favor in the eyes of God, and then God bestowed grace upon Noah. Calvinists claim that if God says salvation is conditional, whoever believes in Him shall not perish, and then a person who believes is saved by God, that equates with salvation by merit, which they equate with a salvation by works. Absurd.

Bottom line, Genesis 6:8 demonstrates that Total Spiritual Inability is false doctrine, because Noah found favor in the eyes of God due to him being a righteous person, seeking God and striving to obey God. God is opposed to the proud but gives grace to the humble.

 

[frumanchu]

This entire line of argument can be defeated by simple logic and a dictionary.

fa·vor
–noun
1.something done or granted out of goodwill, rather than from justice or for remuneration; a kind act: to ask a favor.
2.friendly or well-disposed regard; goodwill: to win the favor of the king.
3.the state of being approved or held in regard: to be in favor at court; styles that are now in favor.
4.excessive kindness or unfair partiality; preferential treatment: to treat some people with favor and others with neglect.
5.a gift bestowed as a token of goodwill, kind regard, love, etc., as formerly upon a knight by his lady.

You will notice that not a single one of these definitions necessarily implies that the "favor" was the result of something earned by the recipient, whether by action or by simple characteristic.

Just to further the point:

grace
verb, graced, grac·ing.
–noun
1.elegance or beauty of form, manner, motion, or action.
2.a pleasing or attractive quality or endowment.
3.favor or good will.
4.a manifestation of favor, esp. by a superior: It was only through the dean's grace that I wasn't expelled from school.
5.mercy; clemency; pardon: an act of grace.
6.favor shown in granting a delay or temporary immunity.
7.an allowance of time after a debt or bill has become payable granted to the debtor before suit can be brought against him or her or a penalty applied: The life insurance premium is due today, but we have 31 days' grace before the policy lapses. Compare grace period.
8.Theology.
a.the freely given, unmerited favor and love of God.
b.the influence or spirit of God operating in humans to regenerate or strengthen them.
c.a virtue or excellence of divine origin: the Christian graces.
d.Also called state of grace. the condition of being in God's favor or one of the elect.

As we can see, "favor" and "grace" are virtually interchangeable terms. If "favor" is necessarily something earned by its recipient, whether by action or by characteristic, then the very notion of grace in Scripture becomes a contradiction. The whole concept of salvation being by grace and not by works is turned on its ear.

So you see, friends...the argument of the OP is simply without merit (pun intended); a contrived argument born not of proper hermeneutics or exegesis but rather simply of a desire to defeat a position at any cost.

QED

 

[Van]

Thanks for supporting my position, to find favor in the eyes of God is to be held in high regard by God. And so for Noah to find favor in the eyes of God requires that God held some characteristic of Noah in high regard.

The effort to rewrite Genesis 6:8 to say Noah did not possess at least one characteristic that found favor in the eyes of God is without merit.

Bottom line, Genesis 6:8 demonstrates that Total Spiritual Inability is false doctrine, because Noah found favor in the eyes of God due to him being a righteous person, seeking God and striving to obey God. God is opposed to the proud but gives grace to the humble.

 

[beloved57]

Noah found favor in the eyes of God, and then God bestowed grace upon Noah.

Thats not what the scripture says, it says gen 6:

8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

 

[beloved57]

As we can see, "favor" and "grace" are virtually interchangeable terms. If "favor" is necessarily something earned by its recipient, whether by action or by characteristic, then the very notion of grace in Scripture becomes a contradiction. The whole concept of salvation being by grace and not by works is turned on its ear.

van doesnt believe in salvation by grace..

 

[frumanchu]

Words mean things, folks. There's simply no justification for using Genesis 6:8 to set it in opposition to the Biblical doctrine of man's Total Depravity. Furthermore, there is no verse whatsoever in this passage which precludes God's regeneration of Noah prior the events described, which verse would be REQUIRED to set the passage in opposition to the doctrine of Total Depravity. That God would look favorably upon the obedience of those whom He had already regenerated, called and brought to faith is in perfect harmony with the Reformed view.

The argument of the OP is simply a contrived argument born not of proper hermeneutics or exegesis but rather simply of a desire to defeat a position at any cost.

QED