LDS Did Joseph Smith succeed in creating an American version of Islam?

[ArmenianJohn]

I would say he did... And I believe it was clearly his intention.

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith said, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us -- ‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”

I think he had a fascination and admiration for Islam and Mohammed and that this is why there are so many parallels between Mormonism and Islam. Here are at least some of the similarities (please provide others if you know of them):
1. Both religions are founded on post-Biblical "prophets" - Mohammed and Joseph Smith.
2. Both religions' prophets wrote new "scriptures"; also, both prophets were considered to be uneducated and this is used to bolster the "miraculous" nature of their having written long books of scripture.
3. They both have strange dietary laws that their religious people are careful to keep to this day. Muslims keep "halal" and Mormons keep the "Word of Wisdom".
4. Both religions have religious buildings that are off limits to outsiders. Mosques are not open to just anyone (the few that are somewhat open still limit where a non-muslim can go) and Mormon Temples are very closed and secretive.
5. Both religions appeal to fleshly desires as "rewards", especially sexual pleasure. Muslims are promised virgins in heaven, Mormons are promised multiple wives with whom they can have eternal sex to populate their planets in the Celestial Kingdom.
6. Religious wars are a common element to both religions. Muslims have jihad and Mormons have their Danite Armies and their wars against Christian and secular Americans such as the state of Missouri or the declaration of war Brigham Young made against the USA.
7. Both religions have advocated for brutal corporal punishment of apostates/infidels. Muslims will cut off people's limbs or kill them in the name of their religion while Mormons have a doctrine of "Blood Atonement" which calls for the killing of certain apostates and sinners, as taught by their prophets.
8. Both religions claim to respect Jesus Christ but neither one accepts Jesus Christ as the same Jesus in Christianity. Muslims believe He was just another prophet, Mormons believe He was a prophet and also a god, but not the One True God. Neither one lines up with the Christian doctrine of who He is.
9. Both religions believe the Bible is fallible and not perfect. This contrasts against Christians who believe it is "Scripture" that is perfect and preserved.
10. A big one - POLYGAMY. Both religions are polygamist (despite modern-day de-emphasis on polygamy by both religions). Both religions' prophets were polygamists and both practiced polygamy with young girls considered "underage" in their cultures. Both have polygamy intertwined with their religions and their histories.

Based on the evidence I think it's very clear that Mormonism is much closer to Islam than it is to Christianity. Muslims believe that a good Muslim is ALSO a "good Christian" because they believe that Islam is a perfected version of Christianity. This is exactly what Mormonism teaches about themselves, as well. Both pay lip service to Jesus but both deny His nature as the One True God.

So, I think Joseph Smith intended to fulfill his quote about being a "second Mohammed" and i think he did fulfill it.

 

[Jane_Doe]

How about let's look at the big topics, instead of some misc small ones:

1) Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?
. Nicene Christian: yes. Mormons: yes. Muslims: no.
2) Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the World?
. Nicene Christian: yes. Mormons: yes. Muslims: no.
3) Shahadah: sincerely reciting the Muslim profession of faith. (1 of 5 essential pillars of Islam)
. Nicene Christian: yes. Mormons: no. Muslims: yes.
4) Salat: performing ritual prayers in the proper way five times each day. (1 of 5 essential pillars of Islam)
. Nicene Christian: no. Mormons: no. Muslims: yes.
5) Sawm: fasting during the month of Ramadan. (1 of 5 essential pillars of Islam)
. Nicene Christian: no. Mormons: no. Muslims: yes.
6) Zakat: paying an alms (or charity) tax to benefit the poor and the needy. (1 of 5 essential pillars of Islam)
. Nicene Christian: depends on the group. Mormons: yes. Muslims: yes.
7) Hajj: pilgrimage to Mecca. (1 of 5 essential pillars of Islam)
. Nicene Christian: no. Mormons: no. Muslims: yes.

Conclusion: Mormons don't really have much in common with Islam.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

How about let's look at the big topics, instead of some misc small ones:

1) Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?
. Nicene Christian: yes. Mormons: yes. Muslims: no.
2) Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the World?
. Nicene Christian: yes. Mormons: yes. Muslims: no.

These are both wrong. Mormons don't believe in the same Jesus Christ as Christians believe in. The Mormon "Jesus" is a creation, the brother of every human being, the brother of Satan, and is a man who was made into a god. The Mormon Jesus is one of many gods, including another god the mormons call "heavenly father" who is separate from Jesus except "in purpose".

Still, like the Muslims, the mormons believe that Jesus Christ is only a "helper" and that one must do at least some works to earn salvation. The Christian Jesus provides salvation through grace alone and works are only resultant from salvation.

3) Shahadah: sincerely reciting the Muslim profession of faith. (1 of 5 essential pillars of Islam)
. Nicene Christian: yes. Mormons: no. Muslims: yes.
4) Salat: performing ritual prayers in the proper way five times each day. (1 of 5 essential pillars of Islam)
. Nicene Christian: no. Mormons: no. Muslims: yes.
5) Sawm: fasting during the month of Ramadan. (1 of 5 essential pillars of Islam)
. Nicene Christian: no. Mormons: no. Muslims: yes.
6) Zakat: paying an alms (or charity) tax to benefit the poor and the needy. (1 of 5 essential pillars of Islam)
. Nicene Christian: depends on the group. Mormons: yes. Muslims: yes.
7) Hajj: pilgrimage to Mecca. (1 of 5 essential pillars of Islam)
. Nicene Christian: no. Mormons: no. Muslims: yes.

Conclusion: Mormons don't really have much in common with Islam.

Well Mormonism isn't identical to Islam but it's similar and analagous. Both religions praise their prophets to the point of worship. Mormons don't have "Hajj" to Mecca but they have their pageants and various other pilgrimages such as to Salt Lake.

Again, both religions are ultimately closed off to the outside world.

A couple days ago I was on my lunch break and I wandered into St. Patrick's Cathedral (since I work down the street) after eating. As usual, the Church was full of many tourists. They had a Mass in session. People were taking communion. I thought again about how THIS is what Christianity is supposed to be - completely OPEN. Tourists and visitors went around looking at the various shrines and stations, looking at the architecture, watching the mass, listening to the music and to the priest and the prayers. Some prayed along. Nobody is asked if they're Catholic or Christian, nobody is asked to leave or to stay out of "special" sections that are only for Christians or Catholics. It's all OPEN.

Go to a mosque and you'll be questioned, forced to remove your shoes, critiqued for your clothing if they don't like it...

Go to a Mormon Temple and they won't even let you in - they'll tell you "Oh, there's the visitor center, go there." Then they will keep everyone - even most MORMONS - outside of the Temple, while they do their occult rituals inside.

But the similarities between Mormonism and Islam are glaring and it's not surprising when you consider that Joseph Smith wanted to be a "second Mohammed". So many similarities, including the violence and intolerance against "apostates". The Polygamy is another HUGE similarity. The "prophets" is another HUGE similarity, including that they each wrote their own "scriptures". The bizarre, irrational dietary restrictions. The strange clothing restrictions.

And most of all the idea of "salvation" and "heaven" are so similar - both involve sex as that great reward for the highest level of heaven. They are both essentially sex cults, really.

None of those are part of orthodox Christianity.

 

[Jane_Doe]

These are both wrong. Mormons don't believe in the same Jesus Christ as Christians believe in. The Mormon "Jesus" is a creation, the brother of every human being, the brother of Satan, and is a man who was made into a god. The Mormon Jesus is one of many gods, including another god the mormons call "heavenly father" who is separate except from Jesus except "in purpose".

Still, like the Muslims, the mormons believe that Jesus Christ is only a "helper" and that one must do at least some works to earn salvation. The Christian Jesus provides salvation through grace alone and works are only resultant from salvation.

Well Mormonism isn't identical to Islam but it's similar and analagous. Both religions praise their prophets to the point of worship. Mormons don't have "Hajj" to Mecca but they have their pageants and various other pilgrimages such as to Salt Lake.

Again, both religions are ultimately closed off to the outside world.

A couple days ago I was on my lunch break and I wandered into St. Patrick's Cathedral (since I work down the street) after eating. As usual, the Church was full of many tourists. They had a Mass in session. People were taking communion. I thought again about how THIS is what Christianity is supposed to be - completely OPEN. Tourists and visitors went around looking at the various shrines and stations, looking at the architecture, watching the mass, listening to the music and to the priest and the prayers. Some prayed along. Nobody is asked if they're Catholic or Christian, nobody is asked to leave or to stay out of "special" sections that are only for Christians or Catholics. It's all OPEN.

Go to a mosque and you'll be questioned, forced to remove your shoes, critiqued for your clothing if they don't like it...

Go to a Mormon Temple and they won't even let you in - they'll tell you "Oh, there's the visitor center, go there." Then they will keep everyone - even most MORMONS - outside of the Temple, while they do their occult rituals inside.

But the similarities between Mormonism and Islam are glaring and it's not surprising when you consider that Joseph Smith wanted to be a "second Mohammed". So many similarities, including the violence and intolerance against "apostates". The Polygamy is another HUGE similarity. The "prophets" is another HUGE similarity, including that they each wrote their own "scriptures". The bizarre, irrational dietary restrictions. The strange clothing restrictions.

And most of all the idea of "salvation" and "heaven" are so similar - both involve sex as that great reward for the highest level of heaven. They are both essentially sex cults, really.

None of those are part of orthodox Christianity.

You notice how you didn't actually respond to what I posted about people's main basic beliefs? My post still stands.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I do agree that Islam and Mormonism do share one FACTUAL thing in that BOTH have essentially replaced Jesus with a MAN and BOTH have an "angel" that "talked" them into doing such a thing. I think that if Mormonism had not started in the US with mainstream Christianity competing directly with it and Christians constantly in its face it would have changed to be more and more like Islam as Mr Smith would have had less boundaries to stifle his dictatorship prophet status just like Muhammed had. From what I have gleaned both "prophets" started as something else regarding religion perhaps both were closer to Christianity in belief till these so called "angels" convinced them to come up with a book of fiction from no discernible source at all.

 

[Ironhold]

Well Mormonism isn't identical to Islam but it's similar and analagous. Both religions praise their prophets to the point of worship. Mormons don't have "Hajj" to Mecca but they have their pageants and various other pilgrimages such as to Salt Lake.

This right here I have to absolutely call you out on.

Yes, the church does have some big things going on.

But there's no requirement for anyone to actually go there.

Visiting these things in person is a bucket list type thing for a lot of people, but others really don't care. The church itself doesn't require attendance, and so if people miss them they miss them.

Again, both religions are ultimately closed off to the outside world.

Actually, the church has "visitors welcome" right below the name of the church on just about any LDS chapel you'll encounter.

How is that "closed off"?

And yes, the chapel is the proper analogue for the cathedral and the mosque you raise as examples.

 

[John Davidson]

Here is a book that compares Joseph Smith to Muhammad:

http://www.cph.org/p-21600-the-american-muhammad-joseph-smith-founder-of-mormonism.aspx

 

[twob4me]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~MOD HAT ON!!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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[Albion]

I would say he did... And I believe it was clearly his intention.

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith said, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us -- ‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”

It's an interesting idea, but where would a 15 year old in Vermont have gotten more than a passing familiarity with Islam from? The Lost Tribes--primitive peoples--lost scriptures kind of thinking was popular in his day, but Mohammedanism was not much understood.

 

[Sophrosyne]

It's an interesting idea, but where would a 15 year old in Vermont have gotten more than a passing familiarity with Islam from? The Lost Tribes--primitive peoples--lost scriptures kind of thinking was popular in his day, but Mohammedanism was not much understood.

Perhaps the "angel" Moroni of Mormonism had a connection to the angel "Gabriel" of Islam.

 

[fatboys]

Perhaps the "angel" Moroni of Mormonism had a connection to the angel "Gabriel" of Islam.

Well that is all some people around here to think its true

 

[Sophrosyne]

Well that is all some people around here to think its true

Well it makes sense as there is a warning of false gospels being spoken by angels in the Bible that these two individuals apparently didn't take to heart when they started their religions.

 

[fatboys]

Well it makes sense as there is a warning of false gospels being spoken by angels in the Bible that these two individuals apparently didn't take to heart when they started their religions.

Tell me that your understanding of the gospel is more correct. How do you know your interpretation is correct?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

It's an interesting idea, but where would a 15 year old in Vermont have gotten more than a passing familiarity with Islam from? The Lost Tribes--primitive peoples--lost scriptures kind of thinking was popular in his day, but Mohammedanism was not much understood.

Well, he said it so he had at knowledge of it. There were books, newspapers, and libraries back then, you know. He obviously looked at many books as evidenced by the ones he plagiarized from to write the Book of Mormon. Are you suggesting that he didn't say what I quoted and/or that he couldn't have known about Islam?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

This right here I have to absolutely call you out on.

Yes, the church does have some big things going on.

But there's no requirement for anyone to actually go there.

Visiting these things in person is a bucket list type thing for a lot of people, but others really don't care. The church itself doesn't require attendance, and so if people miss them they miss them.

I understand and agree that there is a difference. Christians do pilgrimages also, anyway, although they are not required at all.

Actually, the church has "visitors welcome" right below the name of the church on just about any LDS chapel you'll encounter.

How is that "closed off"?

And yes, the chapel is the proper analogue for the cathedral and the mosque you raise as examples.

The Temples are completely closed off to the outside world and, what, 80% of the mormons? There is no equivalent in the Christian world. Go to any Christian Church and there is no restriction on your being there, even if a Mass is going on. Nothing is hidden. Mormonism hides things and hides information which is why it is properly called an occultic religion.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Tell me that your understanding of the gospel is more correct. How do you know your interpretation is correct?

Because my standard is the bible... not Mr. Smith's edited version.

 

[Ironhold]

The Temples are completely closed off to the outside world and, what, 80% of the mormons?

Only after they've been dedicated; before that, anyone and everyone who agrees to be on their best behavior can show up for a scheduled tour group.

It's my understanding that Judaism has similar practices in place.

 

[Albion]

Well, he said it so he had at knowledge of it.

But how much or how well? That's the question.

There were books, newspapers, and libraries back then, you know.

Yes, and I know well how foreign countries and their people were depicted in almost all of them back 200 years ago.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Because my standard is the bible... not Mr. Smith's edited version.

Stating once again: the "Mormon Bible" is the KJV of the Bible. Is there something about this Bible that you find offensive?

 

[Albion]

Stating once again: the "Mormon Bible" is the KJV of the Bible. Is there something about this Bible that you find offensive?

The reference was no doubt to the so-called "Inspired Bible" which Smith produced.