Did Jesus work on the Sabbath?

[Byfaithalone1]

If you took time to read your Bible or at least believe your Bible you would know these things.

There is a way to disagree without being combative.

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

One never learns to swim without venturing out into the open.

true....

 

[StormyOne]

There is a way to disagree without being combative.

BFA

BFA, you are right, but its cool, actually its funny because the assumption is so far from the truth.... I am 50, was born and raised in adventist culture, baptized at 9, attended sda schools, studied theology, etc... so you do the math.... if anything I am quite familiar with its adventism.... in fact I remember adventist life prior to the 28 fundamentals.....LOL

 

[Sophia7]

Jesus is Lord of all the commandments but that does not mean He breaks them.

Stormy emphasized John 5:17; I would also emphasize verse 18:

John 5:16 For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath.
17 But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working."
18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
​

That verse clearly states that Jesus was "breaking the Sabbath," as well as "making Himself equal with God." However, paradoxically, He did not sin by doing so; He compared His work to that of the priests in the temple, who likewise broke the Sabbath yet were held blameless for it:

Matthew 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat.
2 But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath."
3 But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,
4 how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?
5 "Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?
6 "But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.
7 "But if you had known what this means, 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT A SACRIFICE,' you would not have condemned the innocent.
8 "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
​

Sacrifices were commanded on the Sabbath, so the priests were required by law to work in the temple on the Sabbath. Jesus said that they were profaning the Sabbath but that they were not guilty of sinning by doing so. Their work of offering sacrifices in the temple (as dictated by the law) was greater than the prohibition against working on the Sabbath (also as dictated by the law). That "ceremonial" work trumped even a requirement of what Adventists call "the moral law," which calls into question whether Sabbath observance really is a universal moral commandment.

Jesus went out of His way to work on the Sabbath in order to reveal His authority over what had been created—including the law and the Sabbath—and His equality with the Father. Jesus was performing the true priestly work that all of the law foreshadowed. He is greater than the priests, greater than the temple, greater than the law, and greater than the Sabbath. God does not observe the seventh-day Sabbath; He is always working.

 

[k4c]

Stormy emphasized John 5:17; I would also emphasize verse 18:

John 5:16 For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath.
17 But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working."
18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
​

That verse clearly states that Jesus was "breaking the Sabbath," as well as "making Himself equal with God." However, paradoxically, He did not sin by doing so; He compared His work to that of the priests in the temple, who likewise broke the Sabbath yet were held blameless for it:

Matthew 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat.
2 But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath."
3 But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,
4 how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?
5 "Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?
6 "But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.
7 "But if you had known what this means, 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT A SACRIFICE,' you would not have condemned the innocent.
8 "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
​

Sacrifices were commanded on the Sabbath, so the priests were required by law to work in the temple on the Sabbath. Jesus said that they were profaning the Sabbath but that they were not guilty of sinning by doing so. Their work of offering sacrifices in the temple (as dictated by the law) was greater than the prohibition against working on the Sabbath (also as dictated by the law). That "ceremonial" work trumped even a requirement of what Adventists call "the moral law," which calls into question whether Sabbath observance really is a universal moral commandment.

Jesus went out of His way to work on the Sabbath in order to reveal His authority over what had been created—including the law and the Sabbath—and His equality with the Father. Jesus was performing the true priestly work that all of the law foreshadowed. He is greater than the priests, greater than the temple, greater than the law, and greater than the Sabbath. God does not observe the seventh-day Sabbath; He is always working.

The problem was not with what Jesus was doing, but rather, how the religious Jews interpreted it. What Jesus was doing was not a violation of the fourth commandment under the New Covenant nor was it a violation under the Old Covenant even though the Jews said it was. Jesus brought them back to the Old Covenant to correct them, which tells us these things were not a violation back then either. The religious Jews also thought it was a sin to eat with unwashed hands. Remember, Jesus' ministry was also to correct, magnify and restore honor to the Law.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

BFA, you are right, but its cool, actually its funny because the assumption is so far from the truth.... I am 50, was born and raised in adventist culture, baptized at 9, attended sda schools, studied theology, etc... so you do the math.... if anything I am quite familiar with its adventism.... in fact I remember adventist life prior to the 28 fundamentals.....LOL

I am glad that such posts are the exception and not the norm around here.

And I understand what you mean. It's true that I'm no longer a member, but when I decided to make a change I didn't entirely disconnect from my roots which include decades of membership in and devotion to the SDA denomination. I attended its schools, made friends with its members, looked up to its elders (and became one myself) and worked in its conferences. I have fond memories.

BFA

 

[r035198x]

Did Jesus work on the Sabbath?

Was Jesus circumcised when he was eight days old?

 

[StormyOne]

Was Jesus circumcised when he was eight days old?

good answer...

 

[Joe67]

The answer is in the VOICE of the trumpet.

Ex 19:14-16
14 And Moses went down from the mount unto the people, and sanctified the people; and they washed their clothes.

15 And he said unto the people, Be ready against the third day: come not at your wives.

16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. KJV

Ex 20:18-19
18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. KJV

Heb 12:18-21
18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

20(For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake, KJV

This is the experience that occurred to the group that formed the SdA church. They turned from the VOICE of the trumpet of God and the words that came from the fire, and asked/desired to be led by a human. We should not despise this work, but we see how it ended during the reign of Zedekiah.

The ministry of Jesus was the beginning of the work of God to gather his people from the north country. He returned unto the sides of the north to prepare a place for us. He will return soon, and is appearing unto us again through the Spirit of grace, without sin unto salvation in his grace, to those that are looking for him to come the same way he went.

Let us watch for him from the new Jerusalem which is above, the free woman, the mother of us all.

Heb 12:22-26
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. KJV

Joe

 

[Sophia7]

The problem was not with what Jesus was doing, but rather, how the religious Jews interpreted it. What Jesus was doing was not a violation of the fourth commandment under the New Covenant nor was it a violation under the Old Covenant even though the Jews said it was. Jesus brought them back to the Old Covenant to correct them, which tells us these things were not a violation back then either. The religious Jews also thought it was a sin to eat with unwashed hands. Remember, Jesus' ministry was also to correct, magnify and restore honor to the Law.

Nope, John 5:18 explicitly states that Jesus was breaking the Sabbath. That has nothing to do with how the Jews interpreted it. The same verse says that He was claiming equality with God. Was that just an interpretation of the Pharisees, too? If that statement is true, the other must be, also. And Jesus said in Matt. 12 that the priests in the temple were breaking the Sabbath yet were blameless; that has nothing to do with the interpretations of the Jews either.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Remember, Jesus' ministry was also to correct, magnify and restore honor to the Law.

What Jesus said is that He came to fulfill the law, to fill its obligations full.

BFA

 

[Avonia]

It seems that understanding what Jesus did with his time is vastly more useful than deciding whether or not he worked on Sabbath.

 

[k4c]

What Jesus said is that He came to fulfill the law, to fill its obligations full.

BFA

One thing that I have found with people pushing false doctrines or wrong beliefs is that they use one or maybe two verses or statements to prove their position as they overlook many verses that refute their position. For example; you say that Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law, this is true but if you stop there in order to prove your position you miss so much more and begin to establish a wrong doctrine.

I find this same process within the, Once Saved, Always Saved, group.

It becomes very frustrating when people have blinders on in order to see only what they want to see so long as it fits within their little box.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

One thing that I have found with people pushing false doctrines or wrong beliefs is that they use one or maybe two verses or statements to prove their position as they overlook many verses that refute their position.

Good point. I've found something similar. Often, it involves a person ripping one verse out of the surrounding context and then comparing that verse with other unrelated passages -- passages that the person would prefer to focus on. This approach doesn't really lead to any real understanding of an individual passage because the person hasn't paused to consider all that has been said in the context of that passage. This approach is often supported under the umbrella of "here a little, there a little."

It's really amazing what a person can learn when s/he moves away from his/her SS Quarterly and its pre-scripted questions and proof texts and begins to explore entire books in their full context. There are many insights that can be gained that the person may have never before seen.

It becomes very frustrating when people have blinders on in order to see only what they want to see so long as it fits within their little box.

I agree. Paul refers to this as being "under the veil." He confirms that the law is the cause of this condition.

BFA

 

[r035198x]

..
It becomes very frustrating when people have blinders on in order to see only what they want to see so long as it fits within their little box.

Were you frustrated with my earlier one statement question too?

 

[Avonia]

It becomes very frustrating when people have blinders on in order to see only what they want to see so long as it fits within their little box.

If you did not feel vulnerable, you probably would not feel frustrated. The motive force of your frustration is your fear. That's OK - we all experience the same thing in different ways to different degrees.

 

[StormyOne]

Sophia made this comment which sums up the issue emphasis mine:

Jesus went out of His way to work on the Sabbath in order to reveal His authority over what had been created—including the law and the Sabbath—and His equality with the Father. Jesus was performing the true priestly work that all of the law foreshadowed. He is greater than the priests, greater than the temple, greater than the law, and greater than the Sabbath. God does not observe the seventh-day Sabbath; He is always working.

God is ALWAYS working..... now run tell that....

 

[k4c]

Sophia made this comment which sums up the issue emphasis mine: God is ALWAYS working..... now run tell that....

Do you believe a Christian can lie, steal, commit adultery, forget the Sabbath, have other Gods and so on and still be right with God?

 

[k4c]

Good point. I've found something similar. Often, it involves a person ripping one verse out of the surrounding context and then comparing that verse with other unrelated passages -- passages that the person would prefer to focus on. This approach doesn't really lead to any real understanding of an individual passage because the person hasn't paused to consider all that has been said in the context of that passage. This approach is often supported under the umbrella of "here a little, there a little."

It's really amazing what a person can learn when s/he moves away from his/her SS Quarterly and its pre-scripted questions and proof texts and begins to explore entire books in their full context. There are many insights that can be gained that the person may have never before seen.

I agree. Paul refers to this as being "under the veil." He confirms that the law is the cause of this condition.

BFA

Do you believe a Christian can lie, steal, commit adultery, forget the Sabbath, have other Gods and so on and still be right with God?

 

[k4c]

Were you frustrated with my earlier one statement question too?

Do you believe a Christian can lie, steal, commit adultery, forget the Sabbath, have other Gods and so on and still be right with God?