Did Jesus preach "hell"?

[Tornero]

I've been looking into the Koine Greek New Testament. Especially at the word "hell"

For instance

Matthew 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

καὶ μὴ φοβεῖσθε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεννόντων τὸ σῶμα τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι· φοβεῖσθε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ.

I can see here that it says γεέννῃ when referencing "hell". γεέννῃ is the dative case of γέεννα (Gehenna)

In the Judaic (oral?) tradition of Gehenna (or as its called in Hebrew גהנם [GeHinnom]), which is defined as such:

purgatory, the spiritual realm in which the souls are cleansed from the blemishes brought about by their conduct while on Earth

A Rabbi describes what Gehenna is further:
Do Jews Believe in Hell? - What Is the Jewish Belief on Hell? - Death & Mourning

-----------

Now, Jesus was a Jew and he preached to a Jewish audience. So when he used Gehenna, he meant the Jewish tradition of it.

In all cases where he mentions "hell", he is using "Gehenna", which does not mean "hell" or "hades" in the traditional sense.. more like a purifying realm or something.

I am confused, because I was always taught that Hell was real, and Jesus taught it. But did he?

Or am I misunderstanding something here?

EDIT: If this has been covered before, please point me in the direction of the thread!!!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I've been looking into the Koine Greek New Testament. Especially at the word "hell"

For instance

Matthew 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

καὶ μὴ φοβεῖσθε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεννόντων τὸ σῶμα τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι· φοβεῖσθε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ.

I can see here that it says γεέννῃ when referencing "hell". γεέννῃ is the dative case of γέεννα (Gehenna)

In the Judaic (oral?) tradition of Gehenna (or as its called in Hebrew גהנם [GeHinnom]), which is defined as such:

purgatory, the spiritual realm in which the souls are cleansed from the blemishes brought about by their conduct while on Earth

A Rabbi describes what Gehenna is further:
Do Jews Believe in Hell? - What Is the Jewish Belief on Hell? - Death & Mourning

-----------

Now, Jesus was a Jew and he preached to a Jewish audience. So when he used Gehenna, he meant the Jewish tradition of it.

In all cases where he mentions "hell", he is using "Gehenna", which does not mean "hell" or "hades" in the traditional sense.. more like a purifying realm or something.

I am confused, because I was always taught that Hell was real, and Jesus taught it. But did he?

Or am I misunderstanding something here?

EDIT: If this has been covered before, please point me in the direction of the thread!!!

Interesting that Paul never mentioned "gehenna" in his epistles.

Here is a link to the thread if you or others are interested

http://www.christianforums.com/t7464995/
Why no mention of "gehenna" in Paul's Epistles?

Matthew 23:2 saying "upon the seat of Moses are seated the Scribes and the Pharisees
Matt 23:33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging of the geennhV <1067>

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of the tormenting of them is ascending into Ages to-Ages..........
[Ezekiel 39:12/Luke 16:24,26]



.

 

[Tornero]

Interesting that Paul never mentioned "gehenna" in his epistles.

What did he use instead?

Was it tartarus he used instead? Rather than Gehenna?

Or Hades?

Here is a link to the thread if you or others are interested

http://www.christianforums.com/t7464995/
Why no mention of "gehenna" in Paul's Epistles?

Matthew 23:2 saying "upon the seat of Moses are seated the Scribes and the Pharisees
Matt 23:33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging of the geennhV <1067>

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages..........
[Ezekiel 39:12/Luke 16:24,26]



.

Thanks for the link!!

I'll go have a read at it

 

[hedrick]

I've read lots of commentaries on this. I'm reasonably convinced that Gehenna was a place of final condemnation in 1st Cent Judaism. Current Jews often don't see it that way.

I note however that in the NRSV, hell (which translates both Gehenna and Tartarus) seems to appear in Jesus' teachings in either hyperbolic or hypothetical contexts.

By hyperbolic I mean passages such as Mat 5:22 or 29, which also talk about removing your right eye.

By hypothetical I mean warnings such as 10:28 (fear the one who can send you to hell).

The parables that actually show people being judged tend to use other language, such as the outer darkness with gnashing of teeth. Not that being thrown into the outer darkness is a good thing, but you asked specifically about the term "hell."

 

[Tornero]

I've read lots of commentaries on this. I'm reasonably convinced that Gehenna was a place of final condemnation in 1st Cent Judaism. Current Jews often don't see it that way.

The meaning of Gehenna (GeHinnom) hasn't changed? it's always been along the lines of:

A place of spiritual punishment and/or purification for a period of up to 12 months after death.

Gehenna also aligns with the Judaic teaching of She'ol too, as they seem to have similar definitions. Purification

Gehenna & She'ol have both been temporal realms of purification it seems.

I note however that in the NRSV, hell (which translates both Gehenna and Tartarus) seems to appear in Jesus' teachings in either hyperbolic or hypothetical contexts.

By hyperbolic I mean passages such as Mat 5:22 or 29, which also talk about removing your right eye.

By hypothetical I mean warnings such as 10:28 (fear the one who can send you to hell).

The parables that actually show people being judged tend to use other language, such as the outer darkness with gnashing of teeth. Not that being thrown into the outer darkness is a good thing, but you asked specifically about the term "hell."

Hmm.

But the idea of She'ol and Gehenna don't seem to meet up to the traditional teachings of Hell, that the Catholic Church and other churches say.

It seems a lot more different and more merciful, and temporal not eternal

 

[LaSpino3]

If your a Christian your going to believe the Scruptures, and not Jewish oral tradition. God get yourself a good Greek to English Lexicon, and if your Bible has left out certain verses that declare there is a hell, dump it and get a K.J.B.

The following 7 names were originally used to point out the misery and the punishment of hell, and were also applied to places allied to it. It also refers to the grave, or sepulchre. 1 Sam.2:6, Gen.37:35, Ps.30:4, 86:13, 116:3. In Arabic it means to ask, request, inquire, consult, beg, supplicate, because in hell the condemed are forever asking for mercy, but can not or will never obtain it.

Luke 16:24-27, "Father Abraham have mercy on me -----."

Hell: In Hebrew is, "sha-al." Hell, the infernal, region of the dead, the final and eternal receptacle of all the ungodly and impenitent. Deut.32:22, Ps.9:17, 139:8. Prov.27:20, Isa.5:14. Septuagint Ha-des, from a negitave, to see, also to be deprived of, or shut out from the light and glory of God for ever. Matt.25:46. The Rabbi's distinguish it by seven different names.

1. She-ol, the eternal and invisible state of the wicked, Ps.9:17.

2. A-vad-don, destruction, perdition, Job 26:6; Hence the name of the devil, Rev.9:11,

3. Tach-tith, the lowest hell, to distinguish it from the grave, Deut.32:22.

4. ha-cho-shech, the thick, gross darkness, or the blackness of darkness for ever, see Jude 13, Job 10:21.

5. gai-tzal-ma-weth, the valley of the terror of death, Ps.23:4,

6. to-pheth, a flaming furnace, Isa.30:33,

7. gai-chin-nom, a lake, or rolling columns of fire, Jer.7:31, Josh.15:8.

Your can examine the verses yourself. Don't take part in the cult teaching that claim there is no hell or eternal fire. In hell there will be a weeping and gnashing of teeth, a place where the fire will not be quenched, and the worm (the sinner and their sin) shall never die.

Phil LaSpino

 

[Joykins]

What did he use instead?

Was it tartarus he used instead? Rather than Gehenna?

Or Hades?

Nothing. He didn't talk about hell at all. He does talk about judgment and condemnation but not "hell." I don't know that we can assume that "condemnation" and "hell" are the same thing, but the connection is frequently made anyway.

 

[Gospel Guy]

purgatory, the spiritual realm in which the souls are cleansed from the blemishes brought about by their conduct while on Earth

No such place...

However, the Bible does speak of "Abraham's Bosom" which was a temporary place God setup to store the OT saints in until Jesus could be raised from the dead which is when the new birth became available... which was when all the OT saints got born-again and were then taken to Heaven.

After that, there is no more place such as this which is where religious people got the idea for purgatory.

Under the New Covenant... when you die you are immediately either in hell or in Heaven.

And, yes... Jesus spoke alot about hell...

Nothing. He didn't talk about hell at all. He does talk about judgment and condemnation but not "hell." I don't know that we can assume that "condemnation" and "hell" are the same thing, but the connection is frequently made anyway.

To be condemned is to be sentenced to prison... which is what hell is, a place of eternal incarceration.

 

[Hentenza]

I've been looking into the Koine Greek New Testament. Especially at the word "hell"

For instance

Matthew 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

&#954;&#945;&#8054; &#956;&#8052; &#966;&#959;&#946;&#949;&#8150;&#963;&#952;&#949; &#7936;&#960;&#8056; &#964;&#8182;&#957; &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#954;&#964;&#949;&#957;&#957;&#8057;&#957;&#964;&#969;&#957; &#964;&#8056; &#963;&#8182;&#956;&#945; &#964;&#8052;&#957; &#948;&#8050; &#968;&#965;&#967;&#8052;&#957; &#956;&#8052; &#948;&#965;&#957;&#945;&#956;&#8051;&#957;&#969;&#957; &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#954;&#964;&#949;&#8150;&#957;&#945;&#953;&#903; &#966;&#959;&#946;&#949;&#8150;&#963;&#952;&#949; &#948;&#8050; &#956;&#8118;&#955;&#955;&#959;&#957; &#964;&#8056;&#957; &#948;&#965;&#957;&#8049;&#956;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#957; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#968;&#965;&#967;&#8052;&#957; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#963;&#8182;&#956;&#945; &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#955;&#8051;&#963;&#945;&#953; &#7952;&#957; &#947;&#949;&#8051;&#957;&#957;&#8131;.

I can see here that it says &#947;&#949;&#8051;&#957;&#957;&#8131; when referencing "hell". &#947;&#949;&#8051;&#957;&#957;&#8131; is the dative case of &#947;&#941;&#949;&#957;&#957;&#945; (Gehenna)

In the Judaic (oral?) tradition of Gehenna (or as its called in Hebrew &#1490;&#1492;&#1504;&#1501; [GeHinnom]), which is defined as such:

purgatory, the spiritual realm in which the souls are cleansed from the blemishes brought about by their conduct while on Earth

A Rabbi describes what Gehenna is further:
Do Jews Believe in Hell? - What Is the Jewish Belief on Hell? - Death & Mourning

-----------

Now, Jesus was a Jew and he preached to a Jewish audience. So when he used Gehenna, he meant the Jewish tradition of it.

In all cases where he mentions "hell", he is using "Gehenna", which does not mean "hell" or "hades" in the traditional sense.. more like a purifying realm or something.

I am confused, because I was always taught that Hell was real, and Jesus taught it. But did he?

Or am I misunderstanding something here?

EDIT: If this has been covered before, please point me in the direction of the thread!!!

Here is an article from the Jewish Encyclopedia that might be of interest to you.

Gehenna

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (So&#7789;ah 22a)...

GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com

 

[Joykins]

To be condemned is to be sentenced to prison... which is what hell is, a place of eternal incarceration.

Perhaps. But a criminal sentence (whatever it may be) is not the same thing as a prison. Nor are all sentences for prison, but that's probably taking the analogy too far.

 

[Knee V]

Gehenna is more akin to The Lake of Fire, and it is not equivalent to Sheol/Hades. In the Hebrew, Sheol was simply where one went when one died, regardless of who they were. In the Septuagint (LXX), the Greek word "Hades" was chosen to be the translation of Sheol. Both words carried the connotation of "the realm of the dead", and didn't have any specific connotation of damnation or bliss. Gehenna was a real place in 1st century Judea; it was a smoldering garbage dump, essentially, and served as effective imagery in some of Christ's parables.

The English word "Hell" has been bastardized over the centuries. "Hell" is an ancient Germanic word (etymologically related to the words "hill", "hall" (think of the inside of a cave), and "hole", all places where they could bury their dead) , and it is equivalent to Sheol/Hades, not Gehenna/Lake of Fire.

Christ taught that in Hell (Hades/Sheol), there are some that are in "torments" and some that are in "Abraham's bosom", and that there is a great gulf between the two so that one cannot cross from one side to the other. But He also teaches that after the final judgment, those two "camps" will be permanently divided, and those on His "left" will go "where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth". In Revelation we see that described apocalyptically as a "Lake of Fire". This is where the teaching of a "particular judgment" (prior to the general resurrection) and a "final judgment" (after the general resurrection) comes from; that is, when we die we receive a foretaste of what the final judgment will be, although we don't experience the full effects of it until after the resurrection when we receive our judgment. After that, there is no more death as we know it, and death itself and its domain (hell) are cast into the Lake of Fire.

 

[Timothew]

I've been looking into the Koine Greek New Testament. Especially at the word "hell"

For instance

Matthew 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

&#954;&#945;&#8054; &#956;&#8052; &#966;&#959;&#946;&#949;&#8150;&#963;&#952;&#949; &#7936;&#960;&#8056; &#964;&#8182;&#957; &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#954;&#964;&#949;&#957;&#957;&#8057;&#957;&#964;&#969;&#957; &#964;&#8056; &#963;&#8182;&#956;&#945; &#964;&#8052;&#957; &#948;&#8050; &#968;&#965;&#967;&#8052;&#957; &#956;&#8052; &#948;&#965;&#957;&#945;&#956;&#8051;&#957;&#969;&#957; &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#954;&#964;&#949;&#8150;&#957;&#945;&#953;&#903; &#966;&#959;&#946;&#949;&#8150;&#963;&#952;&#949; &#948;&#8050; &#956;&#8118;&#955;&#955;&#959;&#957; &#964;&#8056;&#957; &#948;&#965;&#957;&#8049;&#956;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#957; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#968;&#965;&#967;&#8052;&#957; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#963;&#8182;&#956;&#945; &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#955;&#8051;&#963;&#945;&#953; &#7952;&#957; &#947;&#949;&#8051;&#957;&#957;&#8131;.

See one of the many Hell threads in UT.

 

[Clare73]

I've been looking into the Koine Greek New Testament. Especially at the word "hell"

For instance Matthew 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

&#954;&#945;&#8054; &#956;&#8052; &#966;&#959;&#946;&#949;&#8150;&#963;&#952;&#949; &#7936;&#960;&#8056; &#964;&#8182;&#957; &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#954;&#964;&#949;&#957;&#957;&#8057;&#957;&#964;&#969;&#957; &#964;&#8056; &#963;&#8182;&#956;&#945; &#964;&#8052;&#957; &#948;&#8050; &#968;&#965;&#967;&#8052;&#957; &#956;&#8052; &#948;&#965;&#957;&#945;&#956;&#8051;&#957;&#969;&#957; &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#954;&#964;&#949;&#8150;&#957;&#945;&#953;&#903; &#966;&#959;&#946;&#949;&#8150;&#963;&#952;&#949; &#948;&#8050; &#956;&#8118;&#955;&#955;&#959;&#957; &#964;&#8056;&#957; &#948;&#965;&#957;&#8049;&#956;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#957; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#968;&#965;&#967;&#8052;&#957; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#963;&#8182;&#956;&#945; &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#955;&#8051;&#963;&#945;&#953; &#7952;&#957; &#947;&#949;&#8051;&#957;&#957;&#8131;.

I can see here that it says &#947;&#949;&#8051;&#957;&#957;&#8131; when referencing "hell". &#947;&#949;&#8051;&#957;&#957;&#8131; is the dative case of &#947;&#941;&#949;&#957;&#957;&#945; (Gehenna)

It matters not Jesus' heritage.
What matters is the language.

The NT is written in Greek, and the word there is genna, or Valley of Hinnon, outside Jerusalem where the garbage dump burned continually.

That is the image Jesus chose for everlasting fire.

 

[Messy]

I've been looking into the Koine Greek New Testament. Especially at the word "hell"

For instance

Matthew 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

&#954;&#945;&#8054; &#956;&#8052; &#966;&#959;&#946;&#949;&#8150;&#963;&#952;&#949; &#7936;&#960;&#8056; &#964;&#8182;&#957; &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#954;&#964;&#949;&#957;&#957;&#972;&#957;&#964;&#969;&#957; &#964;&#8056; &#963;&#8182;&#956;&#945; &#964;&#8052;&#957; &#948;&#8050; &#968;&#965;&#967;&#8052;&#957; &#956;&#8052; &#948;&#965;&#957;&#945;&#956;&#941;&#957;&#969;&#957; &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#954;&#964;&#949;&#8150;&#957;&#945;&#953;· &#966;&#959;&#946;&#949;&#8150;&#963;&#952;&#949; &#948;&#8050; &#956;&#8118;&#955;&#955;&#959;&#957; &#964;&#8056;&#957; &#948;&#965;&#957;&#940;&#956;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#957; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#968;&#965;&#967;&#8052;&#957; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#963;&#8182;&#956;&#945; &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#955;&#941;&#963;&#945;&#953; &#7952;&#957; &#947;&#949;&#941;&#957;&#957;&#8131;.

I can see here that it says &#947;&#949;&#941;&#957;&#957;&#8131; when referencing "hell". &#947;&#949;&#941;&#957;&#957;&#8131; is the dative case of &#947;&#941;&#949;&#957;&#957;&#945; (Gehenna)

In the Judaic (oral?) tradition of Gehenna (or as its called in Hebrew &#1490;&#1492;&#1504;&#1501; [GeHinnom]), which is defined as such:

purgatory, the spiritual realm in which the souls are cleansed from the blemishes brought about by their conduct while on Earth

A Rabbi describes what Gehenna is further:
Do Jews Believe in Hell? - What Is the Jewish Belief on Hell? - Death & Mourning

-----------

Now, Jesus was a Jew and he preached to a Jewish audience. So when he used Gehenna, he meant the Jewish tradition of it.

In all cases where he mentions "hell", he is using "Gehenna", which does not mean "hell" or "hades" in the traditional sense.. more like a purifying realm or something.

I am confused, because I was always taught that Hell was real, and Jesus taught it. But did he?

Or am I misunderstanding something here?

EDIT: If this has been covered before, please point me in the direction of the thread!!!

This is interesting, because it´s exactly what Sadhu Sundhar Singh saw and teaches. Not that it´s a nice place, but that it´s for that reason.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Nothing. He didn't talk about hell at all. He does talk about judgment and condemnation but not "hell." I don't know that we can assume that "condemnation" and "hell" are the same thing, but the connection is frequently made anyway.

I haven't followed this thread, but I think when you said "He" you're speaking about Paul, but for your thoughts on why people connect "condemnation" with "hell" this verse might help:

"Then He will say to those on His left, 'Depart from me,you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hunger and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, saying 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?' Then He will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' And these will go away into eternal punishment but the righteous into eternal life."

Matthew 25:41-45​

I'll say again, I think you're speaking about Paul not talking about hell in his epistles, but the connection between condemnation and hell, is made in Christ's teachings.

This is to the original poster, I don't have an background knowledge of what the Jews thought of at the afterlife but regardless of what it was, if Christ is teaching them about hell, I'm pretty sure, His teaching would be the most accurate, regardless of how the Jews viewed it.

 

[Joykins]

Yes, by "he" I meant Paul. The gospels had not been written when Paul was writing the epistles, so I don't know if he had knowledge of that particular connection or not.

 

[1Feather]

Scripture aside, Jesus was a Jew. Would he have ministered about an afterlife according to Jewish tradition? If so that would be Sheol would it not?

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Yes, by "he" I meant Paul. The gospels had not been written when Paul was writing the epistles, so I don't know if he had knowledge of that particular connection or not.

The gospels didn't have to be written for it to be known. I'm pretty sure oral teaches were going on. Paul repeated the words of Christ during the Lord's Supper in 1 Corinthians 11:23-25, he also was picked by Christ to carry the message, so it's a good bet that Paul understood the connect.

 

[bornofGod888]

Yes, by "he" I meant Paul. The gospels had not been written when Paul was writing the epistles, so I don't know if he had knowledge of that particular connection or not.

If the gospels had not yet been written when Paul was writing his epistles, then how did Paul directly quote Luke's gospel when writing his first epistle to Timothy?

"For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward." - I Timothy 5:18

Here, Paul cited two scriptures.

In the first instance, he cited Deuteronomy 25:4, where we read:

"Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn." - Deuteronomy 25:4

In the second instance, he cited Luke 10:7, where we read:

"And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house." - Luke 10:7

In fact, the same exact underlying Greek word, "misthos" is used in both instances. IOW, in Luke's gospel, "misthos" is translated as "hire" and in I Timothy, "misthos" is translated as "reward":

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3408&t=KJV

With such being the case, how did Paul directly cite Luke's gospel if it wasn't in circulation yet? Of course, the correct answer to this question is that Luke's gospel was already in circulation at the time of Paul's writing of his first epistle to Timothy and Paul cited from it directly as "scripture".

 

[bornofGod888]

Yes, by "he" I meant Paul. The gospels had not been written when Paul was writing the epistles, so I don't know if he had knowledge of that particular connection or not.

One more thing.

Seeing how Paul directly quoted from Luke's gospel as "scripture", I believe that it can also reasonably be proven or at least heavily suggested that the other gospels were already in circulation at that time, too. In fact, I believe that Luke pretty much told us as much himself. Yes, his gospel begins thusly:

"Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, That thou mightiest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed." - Luke 1:1-4

Luke wrote of those who had already "taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us" and further described them as "eyewitnesses from the beginning and ministers of the word". Yes, IOW, Luke was merely "following suit" or continuing on in that which others before him had already done. Isn't it at least possible (probable) then that some of these "many" were other gospel writers? Anyhow, when it comes to dating the writing of the gospels, we are not merely left with external sources (extant manuscripts) to determine the timing of the same. No, we can and should also consider the internal witness of scripture and that most definitely shows that Luke's gospel was in circulation at the time of Paul's writing of his first epistle to Timothy and also heavily suggests that the other gospels may have already been in circulation, too.