Did Jesus have our sinful nature?

[teagranny]

chris interesting summary,

I did get a sense from a few 'no' replies that they were defending Jesus.

Personally I think that He did have human blood and felt temptation yet in no way ever did sin just makes Him more of a Hero to me.

If it weren't so important for Jesus to be part human why did God go to all the trouble of having Him born of Mary and putting her through all she went through?

 

[Sadalmelik]

Originally Posted by drjean

Christ did not have our sinful Adamic nature because he did not have any human blood in Him







huh?
​

 

[Theofane]

He was entirely human and entirely divine. (Hypostatic Union)

 

[holyrokker]

Everyone is born that way. If no one inheritated original sin from their forefathers, no one would need a Saviour.

Everyone is born sinful? That's not found in the pages of Scripture.

Everyone "needs" a savior because "all we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way"

 

[holyrokker]

Did Jesus have our sinful nature?

(please correct me if I got anything wrong)

hedrick -- no (thinks our nature is corrupt and Jesus has the original uncorrupted one)
holyrokker -- no sinful nature for Jesus (thinks we're not born that way either)
Dik -- no, very much no
patience7 -- yes (quotes scripture)
drjean -- no (thinks blood type is inherited from father not mother and our blood type makes us sinful?)
Girder of Loins -- no? (seems to equate sin nature with having committed sin?)
Mernlinious -- yes (quotes scripture)
teagranny -- yes
Theophane -- no (thinks having a sinful nature inevitably results in sin)

6 (66%) say no
3 (33%) say yes
twice as many said no as yes, but 100 % of people who quoted scripture in their reply said yes.
a lot of people who said no seem to equate sinful nature with committing sin, either the same thing or an inevitable consequence

In attempting to "prove" a point, is it alright to "quote" the Bible even if the verses that are quoted have been removed from their proper contexts, and thus misquoted?

 

[tangled]

He did not sin.

John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

God doesn't sin.

 

[teagranny]

holyrokker

what is the difference between sinning and one who has gone astray?

 

[holyrokker]

holyrokker

what is the difference between sinning and one who has gone astray?

I see no difference.

Sin is (among other things) going astray.

It's not a condition with which we are born.

 

[chris4243]

In attempting to "prove" a point, is it alright to "quote" the Bible even if the verses that are quoted have been removed from their proper contexts, and thus misquoted?

An out of context Bible verse is usually* easy enough to put into context because one knows exactly where to find it. No Bible verse at all, cannot be researched at all. If it offends you that I said 100% of people who quoted scripture disagreed with you, since your opinion outnumbers** the others it should be simple enough to change the statistic to your favor by quoting scripture in support of your position.

* easy when the context is found on the same page, harder when the context requires thorough knowledge of the culture or something like that

** unless people were equivocating with "having sinned" and "having a sin nature" edit: or with inheriting guilt from Adam's sin, if that is possible

 

[chris4243]

I see no difference.

Sin is (among other things) going astray.

It's not a condition with which we are born.

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is among the many things that make a Jew ceremoniously unclean. They had to abstain for a while and cleanse themselves before approaching God, as in Exodus 19:15. Similarly, menstrual blood is ceremoniously unclean (I imagine the placenta is too). All humans (including Jesus unless God intervened again at His birth and didn't mention it) would be born surrounded by ceremonially unclean stuff. Luke 2 describes the ritual purification of baby Jesus.

Some people may confuse "ceremoniously unclean" with "sin". This verse, for example, has a suspicious translation (without even considering it may be hyperbole/poetic license):
Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

But the two different words translated "sin" here, occur only three times total in the Bible, two of them in this verse. This is one of those more complicated cases where to get the context you may want to look at the Hebrew original.
Psalm 51:5 Hebrew Texts and Analysis

 

[holyrokker]

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is among the many things that make a Jew ceremoniously unclean. They had to abstain for a while and cleanse themselves before approaching God, as in Exodus 19:15. Similarly, menstrual blood is ceremoniously unclean (I imagine the placenta is too). All humans (including Jesus unless God intervened again at His birth and didn't mention it) would be born surrounded by ceremonially unclean stuff. Luke 2 describes the ritual purification of baby Jesus.

Some people may confuse "ceremoniously unclean" with "sin". This verse, for example, has a suspicious translation (without even considering it may be hyperbole/poetic license):
Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

But the two different words translated "sin" here, occur only three times total in the Bible, two of them in this verse. This is one of those more complicated cases where to get the context you may want to look at the Hebrew original.
Psalm 51:5 Hebrew Texts and Analysis

That's an interesting perspective. Do I understand your point correctly? Rather than saying he was "sinful", David was referring to the ceremonial uncleanness of the birth?

 

[Rev Randy]

Next, Christ did not have our sinful Adamic nature because he did not have any human blood in Him. The blood comes from the line of the father, and in this case, God the Holy Spirit, God the Father.

That's a new wrinkle. I thought Jesus passed through the womb like ever human. I also thought he was fully human as well as fully God. Jesus once said "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". Sound like temptation was something He also struggled with but unlike us He overcame. Just a thought. If His temptation wasn't like ours why was it brought up? Also, Jesus died didn't he? If there was no human blood in him he couldn't have.

 

[holyrokker]

Rev Randy,

First, I've seen a few of your posts around. Welcome to the forums.

You brought up some good points here. It's quite obvious from the New Testament that Jesus was, indeed, fully human and faced temptation, spilled human blood, died physically and rose physically from the dead.

 

[Rev Randy]

Thanks for the welcome, Holyrokker. Oddly with the exception of a bot your the first to welcome me.

 

[OpenDoor]

I'm voting no.

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (KJB)
2 Corinthians 5:21

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (NIV)
2 Corinthians 5:21

 

[Rev Randy]

If Jesus was not born with the same sinful nature we have why do we find it glorious that He never sinned? Jesus was born both fully God and fully man. He was tempted of every sin we are tempted of. He, however, never chose to sin. Yep I said chose as sin is always a choice.
In the garden just before His arrest, He made a statement showing He battled just like us: The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. It is not that Jesus didn't have the nature it's that He overcame.

 

[holyrokker]

The problem with the original question is that it assumes that people are born with a "sinful nature". However, that is not the teaching of the Bible.

 

[hlaltimus]

He got the physical weakness of humanity through Mary but not her moral weakness, as God cannot get all of the genetic code from only a mother or only a father, but all of the human nature from either the mother or the father, and God the Father wisely elected the later choice. So by this plan of reasoning, Jesus the Messiah missed Mary's fallen human nature, received the physical weakness of her, (and our,) race, and so necessarily provided a sort of weak obedience, but which now hindered obedience was obedience never the less as far as the law was concerned, and so entirely acceptable to God the Father in point of Christ's and our penal and preceptive righteousness recieved through justifying faith.

If a man is required to ascend a certain summit, he is crowned with final victory as long as he completes his mission, given he arrives in robust health and energy or clambers up upon all four hands and feet almost completely exhausted. Jesus indeed plodded through the last furlong of his race in a weakened state, but his weak success was success never the less, for he could only properly represent a race federally so long as he participated in the state of the race which he sought to redeem, and our state is admittedly a weakened one. He was weak indeed and so could unify with a weakened race in their plight, and yet the weakness he inherited was of such a construction so as to leave his final, justifying righteousness as pristine and flawless as though a starling angel from heaven and yielded it. He was perfect, and yet he was still one of us.

 

[Setyoufree]

First let me say that being tempted is not sin.

But from where does temptation originate? Here's James:

James 4:1 What is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? Is not the source your pleasures (lusts) that wage war in your members (your body) ?

So temptation comes from within. Actually, Paul makes it clearer:

Romans 7:22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law;

Christ's law is basically summed up, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" See Gal 5:14.

Now verse 23: "but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind ...."

So we can't be tempted to go against God's law if there's not something in us to tempt us.

So Christ, as a man, had to be tempted just as we are - that is, from within. However, Christ never gave into temptation - not even by a thought.

 

[Setyoufree]

The problem with the original question is that it assumes that people are born with a "sinful nature". However, that is not the teaching of the Bible.

Ps 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Eph 2:3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath