Did Jesus have our sinful nature?

[astein]

The Bible says that Jesus was tempted in every ways just as we are. Since having sinful tendencies makes it harder to avoid sin, does this mean that Jesus had our sinful nature, or that He wasn't tempted as severely as we are?

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.

Jesus is aware of all. Overcomer.

 

[samcarternx]

A sinful nature is one separated from God. A rebellious will is the core of sin. Savior entered into the physical universe in union with the Father and was never separated, so as They were one will, everything They did They did together. Humans start life separated from God with a separated will. They cannot do the will of the Father, therefore they sin. The good news is through Savior and His Holy Spirit, men can be changed from rebellious willer and doer into a union with God and His sovereign will will do the man thereby replacing the "every man for himself" will with the "love thy neighbor will" setting free from sin and death.

 

[Setyoufree]

A sinful nature is one separated from God.

Before the fall Adam's disposition (nature) was one of agape love. That's because Adam was created in God's image after His likeness, but after the fall that agape love became bent back to Adam. Now Adam's disposition (nature) had a u-turn agape. Since we are the multiplication of Adam's life we are born in his likeness after his image. Here's evidence:

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Adam (meaning mankind) in the day when they were created. 3 When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years (this was after the fall), he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.

 

[Dorothea]

So then what was the point in tempting Him, if He is entirely unaffected by the temptation?

The devil didn't know Christ was also God.

 

[Setyoufree]

The devil didn't know Christ was also God.

Christ didn't use His Deity to combat sin. He came as the Son of Man. He gave up the independent use of His Deity to the Father. That's why He could say, "the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing ..."

So Christ was completely dependent on His Father.

 

[Steve Petersen]

If Jesus was unable to sin, what is the big deal about being tempted then? How is that an example for us? It would seem to be irrelevant.

Fact is, in the face of great temptation He DID NOT SIN. It is therefore possible to overcome temptation by the power of the the Holy Word.

 

[Setyoufree]

Good point...

 

[Messy]

The Bible says that Jesus was tempted in every ways just as we are. Since having sinful tendencies makes it harder to avoid sin, does this mean that Jesus had our sinful nature, or that He wasn't tempted as severely as we are?

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.

He had the same body of sin with the same sinful tendencies, but He
(His Spirit) was holy and not spiritually dead/seperated from God.
When we are born again, He lives in us and we (our old man) are dead (Galatians 2:22), so it should be possible for us to live without sin. In that way he has been tempted the same I guess.

 

[samcarternx]

He had the same body of sin with the same sinful tendencies, but He
(His Spirit) was holy and not spiritually dead/seperated from God.
When we are born again, He lives in us and we (our old man) are dead (Galatians 2:22), so it should be possible for us to live without sin. In that way he has been tempted the same I guess.

He was our example of God's grace as well. "If it be possible, take this cup from me, nevertheless, not my will, but thine be done." ...and so He went to the cross.

 

[holyrokker]

He had the same body of sin with the same sinful tendencies, but He
(His Spirit) was holy and not spiritually dead/seperated from God.
When we are born again, He lives in us and we (our old man) are dead (Galatians 2:22), so it should be possible for us to live without sin. In that way he has been tempted the same I guess.

Jesus was tempted, but He didn't have sinful tendencies.

A tendency is the result of habit. Jesus had no sinful habit, so no tendency.

Likewise, we cannot be born with a tendency toward sin, because sin must become routine in life for it to be a tendency.

 

[samcarternx]

Jesus was tempted, but He didn't have sinful tendencies.

A tendency is the result of habit. Jesus had no sinful habit, so no tendency.

Likewise, we cannot be born with a tendency toward sin, because sin must become routine in life for it to be a tendency.

The difference was He was born in union with the Father, and our natural man is born separated from Him. Our wills are enslaved to sin, and His was not. He came to deliver us from this bondage, and did so.

 

[holyrokker]

Romans 6:16 "Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?"

We are not born enslaved to sin. We become enslaved.

James 1:14-15"But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then, after lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death."

Jesus was tempted by His desires. He didn't yield to them because He loved His Father. Lust was never conceived in His heart.

Sin is a matter of the heart (purpose of life), not a matter of the flesh.

 

[samcarternx]

Romans 6:16 "Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?"

We are not born enslaved to sin. We become enslaved.

James 1:14-15"But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then, after lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death."

Jesus was tempted by His desires. He didn't yield to them because He loved His Father. Lust was never conceived in His heart.

Sin is a matter of the heart (purpose of life), not a matter of the flesh.

Since we are separated from God's will we follow a will of our own, we call it "free" but since it is rebellious by definition it is enslaved to sin. Jesus called the people of Jerusalem children of Satan and they were not different from other people. All we have to start with is our physical body and soul. and the desires it has, and will to fulfill them is sin. No one us is any different, we all have the same desires to one degree or another and we all fall short of the glory of God. That is why Jesus did what He did, and we can now be new creatures, alive to God and dead to sin.

 

[holyrokker]

Since we are separated from God's will we follow a will of our own, we call it "free" but since it is rebellious by definition it is enslaved to sin. Jesus called the people of Jerusalem children of Satan and they were not different from other people. All we have to start with is our physical body and soul. and the desires it has, and will to fulfill them is sin. No one us is any different, we all have the same desires to one degree or another and we all fall short of the glory of God. That is why Jesus did what He did, and we can now be new creatures, alive to God and dead to sin.

I agree. All we have to start with is our physical body. But there is nothing inherently sinful about it. Jesus was just like us, physically.

The only difference is relationship with the Father through the Holy Spirit.

Without that relationship, we WILL sin because all we know is our own desires. Those desires aren't sinful, but as we follow them, we become enticed when fulfilling them is inappropriate. That's when those desires become lust.

As we grow older, and begin to learn the difference between right and wrong, we are already enslaved to our lusts. It's living according to our lusts even when we know right from wrong that it is counted as sin.

The pattern from James 1 shows us that the progression is
desire --> lust --> sin

 

[samcarternx]

I agree. All we have to start with is our physical body. But there is nothing inherently sinful about it. Jesus was just like us, physically.

The only difference is relationship with the Father through the Holy Spirit.

Without that relationship, we WILL sin because all we know is our own desires. Those desires aren't sinful, but as we follow them, we become enticed when fulfilling them is inappropriate. That's when those desires become lust.

As we grow older, and begin to learn the difference between right and wrong, we are already enslaved to our lusts. It's living according to our lusts even when we know right from wrong that it is counted as sin.

The pattern from James 1 shows us that the progression is
desire --> lust --> sin

We may be quibbling over definitions. Separated from God is already rebellion, so whatever we do are acts of rebellion, even if it is just, a kid taking a toy from another kid. James says the same thing I am saying, when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin.

 

[holyrokker]

We may be quibbling over definitions. Separated from God is already rebellion, so whatever we do are acts of rebellion, even if it is just, a kid taking a toy from another kid. James says the same thing I am saying, when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin.

I'm a "quibbler" over definitions.

 

[samcarternx]

I'm a "quibbler" over definitions.

heheheh then charles finny should get it right. True religion is looking after widows and orphans and keeping ourselves undefiled from the world.

 

[Messy]

The Bible says that Jesus was tempted in every ways just as we are. Since having sinful tendencies makes it harder to avoid sin, does this mean that Jesus had our sinful nature, or that He wasn't tempted as severely as we are?

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.

No, it means we don't have a sinful nature anymore, because if we repent and convert, God deliveres us from this body of sin (Romans 7, we do what we don't want) and the old fleshly nature dies with Christ. (Galatians 2:20). We are then resurrected and can be lead by the Spirit (Romans 8), just like He was. But His soul died, His own will, the soul of the flesh is in the blood and most of us are not yet at the point of giving over our will entirely most of the time: Thy will be done. Then we can get there, to the endgoal:
Phillipians 3
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Pressing Toward the Goal

12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Jesus didn't sin, because He knew the Father and loved Him with all His heart. That's what we lack if we sin. I believe that was the reason Adam sinned. He didn't know God and didn't know He was so good, He only wanted the best for him, so he started to doubt Him and listen to the devil. He didn't love God with all his heart. Tree of Life: This is eternal life, that they might know You.
I think he could have become like God if he ate from the tree of Life, just like Jesus, the second Adam, became like God (He was God of course, but He became man), but He didn't see it as robbery.

 

[listed]

The Bible says that Jesus was tempted in every ways just as we are. Since having sinful tendencies makes it harder to avoid sin, does this mean that Jesus had our sinful nature, or that He wasn't tempted as severely as we are?

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.

No because Jesus inherited from His Father, Who is God the Father and not Adam (man).

Jesus took on the form of man, not his nature. Jesus did not have the propensity to sin.

 

[FireDragon76]

The term "sinful nature" does not appear anywhere in the original Greek texts. There is only human nature philosophically ("what in essence it means to be human"), and "flesh", and they are distinct. One is a philosophical concept, the other is a biblical term for our desires born out of being a creature. Merely having creaturely desires is not sinful, it is only sinful when we actually think, do, or say something, or fail to think, do or say something, unlawful or sinful.

Clearly, the fall changed us, it introduced physical and spiritual death and a loss of God's grace. But I'm not sure that means we have a "sinful nature", if by that we mean that we are "pure evil". We are still creatures of God but we are "messed up".