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Did Jesus give us an Eleventh Commandment?

How do you see Jesus' new commandment?

  • An additional commandment brings the total commandments to eleven in the new covenant.

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • A replacement of the ten previous commandments where we no longer have to keep the Sabbath.

    Votes: 3 75.0%

  • Total voters
    4

guevaraj

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Are you saying the eleventh commandment is Love each other?
Brother, no! God does not assume that we know how to love. He told us how to love through His Ten Commandments and now Jesus has shown us how to obey the Ten Commandments and more with the example of Jesus' obedience. In fact, since Jesus obeyed the previous Ten Commandments and we are to "follow" His example in the new Eleventh Commandment, all the previous Ten Commandments are included in the new Eleventh Commandment. Jesus tells us in the following passage that those who truly love as God taught us are those who obey the Eleven Commandments of Jesus. Those who obey the Eleven Commandments are those who love Jesus.

Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.” (John 14:21 NLT)​

united in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Cornelius8L

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Brother, no! God does not assume that we know how to love. He told us how to love through His Ten Commandments and now Jesus has shown us how to obey the Ten Commandments and more with the example of Jesus' obedience. In fact, since Jesus obeyed the previous Ten Commandments and we are to "follow" His example in the new Eleventh Commandment, all the previous Ten Commandments are included in the new Eleventh Commandment. Jesus tells us in the following passage that those who truly love as God taught us are those who obey the Eleven Commandments of Jesus. Those who obey the Eleven Commandments are those who love Jesus.

Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.” (John 14:21 NLT)​

united in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, are you saying the eleventh commandment is to follow the example of Jesus? And Jesus observed the Feast of Tabernacles (John 7) and was circumcised (Luke 2:21). So, you mean to keep these as well?
 
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HIM

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Brother, having precautionary measures is not a sin. Paul himself practiced this (1 Corinthians 8:13).

Talking about human rule, isn’t SDA’s advice about not drinking wine the same? Jesus confessed that He drank wine when He compared Himself with John the Baptist. His context below was eating bread and drinking wine. Otherwise, why would others call Him a drunkard if He took only water and milk?

Luke 7:33-34
For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at this glutton and drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’​

Wisdom prepares wine (Proverbs 9:2), likewise, the LORD of Hosts (Isaiah 25:6). Offering also involved wine (Numbers 15:7, Leviticus 23:13).

Why has drinking wine becomes an issue? Worse still, the replier denied the fact of Jesus turning water into wine (John 2:9), although the first SDA doctrine called for submission to the Holy Scriptures.
So you agree with the Accuser. Jesus was a drunkard, drunk? Drinking and getting drunk.
Is there a difference?
 
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Cornelius8L

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So you agree with the Accuser. Jesus was a drunkard, drunk? Drinking and getting drunk.
Is there a difference?
Here is the context Jesus gave in Luke 7:33-34:
(i) For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine
(ii) and you say, ‘He has a demon!’
(iii) The Son of Man came eating and drinking,
(iv) and you say, ‘Look at this glutton and drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’

(i) Yes (ii) No, (iii) Yes (iv) No.

Did Jesus say John the Baptist has a demon? No, but Jesus said, John, neither eat bread nor drink wine. Did Jesus say Himself a glutton and drunkard? No, but Jesus said He eats beard and drinks wine.

Jesus declared in Luke 7:33-34 that there is a difference.
 
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guevaraj

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Brother, are you saying the eleventh commandment is to follow the example of Jesus? And Jesus observed the Feast of Tabernacles (John 7) and was circumcised (Luke 2:21). So, you mean to keep these as well?
Brother, no! Circumcision is now done by Jesus and is no longer done by humans.

When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcisionthe cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. (Colossians 2:11-12 NLT)​

We are still growing and Jesus "has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears" and the next step in our growth is to learn how to keep the biblical Sabbath by listening to Paul's correction of the human tradition of Judaism since Joshua. The next step in our growth is to get the Sabbath right.

See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don’t recognize that we are God’s children because they don’t know him. Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure. Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is. (1 John 3:1-6 NLT)​

Before we learn how to celebrate the feasts after Jesus, we need to learn how to keep the biblical Sabbath away from Jerusalem by listening to Paul's correction of Judaism's human tradition since Joshua, in the following passage. Judaism's current human tradition of the Sabbath only enters the Sabbath correctly in Jerusalem and nowhere else. In brief, the biblical Sabbath is entered by everyone around the world together and it is not Sabbath for some and not for others around the world, as has been the human tradition of Judaism to this day since Joshua.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Cornelius8L

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Brother, no! Circumcision is now done by Jesus and is no longer done by humans.

When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcisionthe cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. (Colossians 2:11-12 NLT)​

We are still growing and Jesus "has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears" and the next step in our growth is to learn how to keep the biblical Sabbath by listening to Paul's correction of the human tradition of Judaism since Joshua. The next step in our growth is to get the Sabbath right.

See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don’t recognize that we are God’s children because they don’t know him. Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure. Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is. (1 John 3:1-6 NLT)​

Before we learn how to celebrate the feasts after Jesus, we need to learn how to keep the biblical Sabbath away from Jerusalem by listening to Paul's correction of Judaism's human tradition since Joshua, in the following passage. Judaism's current human tradition of the Sabbath only enters the Sabbath correctly in Jerusalem and nowhere else. In brief, the biblical Sabbath is entered by everyone around the world together and it is not Sabbath for some and not for others around the world, as has been the human tradition of Judaism to this day since Joshua.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, so the proposed 11th commandment is not “following everything Jesus did but some.” Or are you saying the 11th commandment is “following Jesus how to love God and man?” Can you help by giving a simpler statement as in what the exact 11th commandment says? Eg: You shall not kill, you shall not steal etc… Thanks!
 
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guevaraj

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Brother, so the proposed 11th commandment is not “following everything Jesus did but some.” Or are you saying the 11th commandment is “following Jesus how to love God and man?” Can you help by giving a simpler statement as in what the exact 11th commandment says? Eg: You shall not kill, you shall not steal etc… Thanks!
Brother, happy Sabbath, which starts this Friday November 11, 2022 at 9:42 am EST! Both passages give us a more complete view of the Eleventh Commandment than human bias would allow by having only the "new" commandment passage: Jesus showing how to obey the two greatest commandments. With the first passage, we can understand that the second passage shows us how to love God and neighbors when Jesus makes it clear that He gives a "new" additional Eleventh Commandment.

Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments (entolé): ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)​

Recognizing that Jesus is human, among us as one of us and is God, the statement below includes love for God in the sense that Jesus is God among us. The two statements above and below give us a more complete view of the Eleventh Commandment than our human bias would allow, allowing us to see that love of God is also included in the statement below. A love of God that includes entering the biblical Sabbath, corrected from human tradition since Joshua by Paul in the letter to the Hebrews, where the Sabbath is fixed in the time zone of creation where God rested and made "holy" that time, making the Sabbath separate from the week in Jerusalem where the Sabbath is entered a half a day earlier than the local seventh day in Jerusalem.

As soon as Judas left the room, Jesus said, “The time has come for the Son of Man to enter into his glory, and God will be glorified because of him. And since God receives glory because of the Son, he will give his own glory to the Son, and he will do so at once. Dear children, I will be with you only a little longer. And as I told the Jewish leaders, you will search for me, but you can’t come where I am going. So now I am giving you a new commandment (entolé): Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples.” (John 13:31-35 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Cornelius8L

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Brother, happy Sabbath, which starts this Friday November 11, 2022 at 9:42 am EST! Both passages give us a more complete view of the Eleventh Commandment than human bias would allow by having only the "new" commandment passage: Jesus showing how to obey the two greatest commandments. With the first passage, we can understand that the second passage shows us how to love God and neighbors when Jesus makes it clear that He gives a "new" additional Eleventh Commandment.

Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments (entolé): ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)​

Recognizing that Jesus is human, among us as one of us and is God, the statement below includes love for God in the sense that Jesus is God among us. The two statements above and below give us a more complete view of the Eleventh Commandment than our human bias would allow, allowing us to see that love of God is also included in the statement below. A love of God that includes entering the biblical Sabbath, corrected from human tradition since Joshua by Paul in the letter to the Hebrews, where the Sabbath is fixed in the time zone of creation where God rested and made "holy" that time, making the Sabbath separate from the week in Jerusalem where the Sabbath is entered a half a day earlier than the local seventh day in Jerusalem.

As soon as Judas left the room, Jesus said, “The time has come for the Son of Man to enter into his glory, and God will be glorified because of him. And since God receives glory because of the Son, he will give his own glory to the Son, and he will do so at once. Dear children, I will be with you only a little longer. And as I told the Jewish leaders, you will search for me, but you can’t come where I am going. So now I am giving you a new commandment (entolé): Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples.” (John 13:31-35 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, I don't quite follow you.

To begin with, we do not see physical Jesus now, and Jesus also did many more things but with no records (John 21:25). So, it's impossible to follow Jesus the way Jesus instructed the religious leader back then (Luke 18:18-22). Not to mention, we have false Christs in the end times (Matthew 24:24).

However, if following Jesus points to Him who has resurrected (John 14:19) and has united with His forever kingdom (Ephesians 5:31-32), Jerusalem above, Sarah (Galatians 4:24-26), then, we should follow Him who has obsoleted the old covenant Hagar (Hebrews 8:13) and His ministry of the Spirit that endures forever (2 Corinthians 3:11).

Let’s not discuss Sabbath here, but “You shall have no other gods before Me (Exodus 20:3).” We know this God is referring to only the Father. Then, Jesus came and said He is also God, and the concept of the trinity having 3 entities pointing to be the one God, was formed. Has this commandment not been changed by Jesus? If we cannot sort this out, we will all become a laughing stock for atheists.
 
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guevaraj

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Brother, I don't quite follow you. To begin with, we do not see physical Jesus now, and Jesus also did many more things but with no records (John 21:25). So, it's impossible to follow Jesus the way Jesus instructed the religious leader back then (Luke 18:18-22).
Brother, plenty has been given already by the Holy Spirit to follow Jesus in the guarantied word of God by prophets from the beginning.

“The LORD our God has secrets known to no one. We are not accountable for them, but we and our children are accountable forever for all that he has revealed to us, so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions. (Deuteronomy 29:29 NLT)​

What Paul has against Judaism's obedience to the law of God is that we need to follow God's original instructions and not invent human rules to help obey God's word that do not help remove sin because we are "blind" guides sabotaging God's law. God is not a "blind" guide to effectively use laws to remove sin from our character, but we are ineffective at using rules to fulfill God's promise of removing our sin because we are "blind" guides.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​
Not to mention, we have false Christs in the end times (Matthew 24:24). However, if following Jesus points to Him who has resurrected (John 14:19) and has united with His forever kingdom (Ephesians 5:31-32), Jerusalem above, Sarah (Galatians 4:24-26), then, we should follow Him who has obsoleted the old covenant Hagar (Hebrews 8:13) and His ministry of the Spirit that endures forever (2 Corinthians 3:11).
Hagar refers to the "human effort" to fulfill God's promise of saving us from our sin. For example, inventing their own rule to not pronounce God's name at all, so not to misuse His name. Paul tells us that this Judaism's effort to obey the law by inventing their own human rules sabotaged God's law to not remove sin from us. Their invented rule obeys the law by sabotaging God's law to not remove their sin. This non-removal of sin leads to death because they did not put forth the effort God asked for and instead made up their own "human effort" that does not remove sin that would otherwise have been removed had they obeyed God's law of not using His name in vain while using His name instead of their "human effort" to avoid the use of His name.

Tell me, you who want to live under the law, do you know what the law actually says? The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons, one from his slave wife and one from his freeborn wife. The son of the slave wife was born in a human attempt to bring about the fulfillment of God’s promise. But the son of the freeborn wife was born as God’s own fulfillment of his promise. These two women serve as an illustration of God’s two covenants. The first woman, Hagar, represents Mount Sinai where people received the law that enslaved them. And now Jerusalem is just like Mount Sinai in Arabia, because she and her children live in slavery to the law. But the other woman, Sarah, represents the heavenly Jerusalem. She is the free woman, and she is our mother. As Isaiah said, “Rejoice, O childless woman, you who have never given birth! Break into a joyful shout, you who have never been in labor! For the desolate woman now has more children than the woman who lives with her husband!” And you, dear brothers and sisters, are children of the promise, just like Isaac. But you are now being persecuted by those who want you to keep the law, just as Ishmael, the child born by human effort, persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the Spirit. But what do the Scriptures say about that? “Get rid of the slave and her son, for the son of the slave woman will not share the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” So, dear brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman; we are children of the free woman. (Galatians 4:21-31 NLT)​
Let’s not discuss Sabbath here, but “You shall have no other gods before Me (Exodus 20:3).” We know this God is referring to only the Father. Then, Jesus came and said He is also God, and the concept of the trinity having 3 entities pointing to be the one God, was formed. Has this commandment not been changed by Jesus? If we cannot sort this out, we will all become a laughing stock for atheists.
It is humans who have not understood the word of God from the beginning, where God has been saying that He is more than one from the beginning. Here are the three in the Old Testament when Jesus, our Redeemer, tells us He was sent by the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Come closer, and listen to this. From the beginning I have told you plainly what would happen.” And now the Sovereign LORD and his Spirit have sent me with this message. This is what the LORD says—your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “I am the LORD your God, who teaches you what is good for you and leads you along the paths you should follow. Oh, that you had listened to my commands! Then you would have had peace flowing like a gentle river and righteousness rolling over you like waves in the sea. (Isaiah 48:16-18 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Leaf473

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...we and our children are accountable forever for all that he has revealed to us, so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions. (Deuteronomy 29:29 NLT)
Brother, happy first day, and may you rejoice in the Lord always!

All the terms of these instructions... How does that fit with the idea that we obey only some of the law of Moses today?

United in seeking God's truths!
 
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Cornelius8L

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Brother, plenty has been given already by the Holy Spirit to follow Jesus in the guarantied word of God by prophets from the beginning.

“The LORD our God has secrets known to no one. We are not accountable for them, but we and our children are accountable forever for all that he has revealed to us, so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions. (Deuteronomy 29:29 NLT)
What Paul has against Judaism's obedience to the law of God is that we need to follow God's original instructions and not invent human rules to help obey God's word that do not help remove sin because we are "blind" guides sabotaging God's law. God is not a "blind" guide to effectively use laws to remove sin from our character, but we are ineffective at using rules to fulfill God's promise of removing our sin because we are "blind" guides.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT) Hagar refers to the "human effort" to fulfill God's promise of saving us from our sin. For example, inventing their own rule to not pronounce God's name at all, so not to misuse His name. Paul tells us that this Judaism's effort to obey the law by inventing their own human rules sabotaged God's law to not remove sin from us. Their invented rule obeys the law by sabotaging God's law to not remove their sin. This non-removal of sin leads to death because they did not put forth the effort God asked for and instead made up their own "human effort" that does not remove sin that would otherwise have been removed had they obeyed God's law of not using His name in vain while using His name instead of their "human effort" to avoid the use of His name.

Tell me, you who want to live under the law, do you know what the law actually says? The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons, one from his slave wife and one from his freeborn wife. The son of the slave wife was born in a human attempt to bring about the fulfillment of God’s promise. But the son of the freeborn wife was born as God’s own fulfillment of his promise. These two women serve as an illustration of God’s two covenants. The first woman, Hagar, represents Mount Sinai where people received the law that enslaved them. And now Jerusalem is just like Mount Sinai in Arabia, because she and her children live in slavery to the law. But the other woman, Sarah, represents the heavenly Jerusalem. She is the free woman, and she is our mother. As Isaiah said, “Rejoice, O childless woman, you who have never given birth! Break into a joyful shout, you who have never been in labor! For the desolate woman now has more children than the woman who lives with her husband!” And you, dear brothers and sisters, are children of the promise, just like Isaac. But you are now being persecuted by those who want you to keep the law, just as Ishmael, the child born by human effort, persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the Spirit. But what do the Scriptures say about that? “Get rid of the slave and her son, for the son of the slave woman will not share the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” So, dear brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman; we are children of the free woman. (Galatians 4:21-31 NLT)
Brother, so the 11th commandment is not to keep the Ten Commandments by human effort? It sounds like a human effort explanation to what Jesus said in Luke 18:18-22.

It is humans who have not understood the word of God from the beginning, where God has been saying that He is more than one from the beginning. Here are the three in the Old Testament when Jesus, our Redeemer, tells us He was sent by the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Come closer, and listen to this. From the beginning I have told you plainly what would happen.” And now the Sovereign LORD and his Spirit have sent me with this message. This is what the LORD says—your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “I am the LORD your God, who teaches you what is good for you and leads you along the paths you should follow. Oh, that you had listened to my commands! Then you would have had peace flowing like a gentle river and righteousness rolling over you like waves in the sea. (Isaiah 48:16-18 NLT)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
How can humans understand it if only the Father speak to Moses? Prophet Isaiah came much later.
 
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guevaraj

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Brother, happy first day, and may you rejoice in the Lord always! All the terms of these instructions... How does that fit with the idea that we obey only some of the law of Moses today? United in seeking God's truths!
Brother, happy Sabbath, which starts this Friday November 18, 2022 at 9:38 am EST! We were left to grow slowly in obedience to all that Moses wrote. James, in the first counsel in Jerusalem, reminded the early church of the primarily law-abiding Jews from their youth as the "part" of Israel that does not "harden" to Jesus to allow for the slow growth, under grace, of the new Gentiles who are turning to God as they listen to Moses every Sabbath, Gentiles who have not had the benefit of growing in obedience to Moses from their youth as they have. Paul is against the added human rules of Judaism, such as not pronouncing the name of God so as not to misuse His name. Not using God's name in vain seemed too difficult under the slow forgiveness through sacrifices. So the Jews sabotaged this law by adding their own rule not to pronounce His name. Such human rules of avoidance do not remove sin and the original law of God is easily obeyed today by praying for forgiveness under the quicker cycle of our High Priest Jesus. This allows growth more quickly in separating sin from our character than what had been possible by slower forgiveness through sacrifices.

And so my judgment is that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood. For these laws of Moses has been preached in Jewish synagogues in every city on every Sabbath for many generations.” (Acts 15:19-21 NIV fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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guevaraj

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Brother, so the 11th commandment is not to keep the Ten Commandments by human effort? It sounds like a human effort explanation to what Jesus said in Luke 18:18-22.
Brother, happy Sabbath, which starts this Friday November 18, 2022 at 9:38 am EST! The following passage tells us that the "overwhelming glory" of the Eleven Commandments over the glory of the Ten Commandments is more than the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments were an outline compared to the full-fledged Eleven Commandments in the exemplary life of Jesus.

He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Eleven Commandments). This is a covenant not of written laws (Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (reminding us to follow the exemplary life of Jesus). The old written covenant ends in death (sabotaged by human effort as in the story of Hagar); but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life (reminding us to follow the exemplary life of Jesus). The old way, with laws etched in stone (Ten Commandments), led to death (sabotaged by human effort as in the story of Hagar), though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way (Eleven Commandments), now that the Holy Spirit is giving life (reminding us to follow the exemplary life of Jesus)? If the old way (Ten Commandments), which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way (Eleven Commandments), which makes us right with God! In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way (Eleven Commandments). So if the old way (Ten Commandments), which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new (Eleven Commandments), which remains forever! (2 Corinthians 3:6-11 NLT)​
How can humans understand it if only the Father speak to Moses? Prophet Isaiah came much later.
The word for God used by Moses in Genesis 1:1 is plural! Jesus tells us in the following passage that Moses did not see or hear the Father. The one Moses saw and the voice heard by the people from the mountain was Jesus before the incarnation and not the Father, according to the following statement by Jesus.

“If I were to testify on my own behalf, my testimony would not be valid. But someone else is also testifying about me, and I assure you that everything he says about me is true. In fact, you sent investigators to listen to John the Baptist, and his testimony about me was true. Of course, I have no need of human witnesses, but I say these things so you might be saved. John was like a burning and shining lamp, and you were excited for a while about his message. But I have a greater witness than John—my teachings and my miracles. The Father gave me these works to accomplish, and they prove that he sent me. And the Father who sent me has testified about me himself. You have never heard his voice or seen his form, and you do not have his message in your hearts, because you do not believe me—the one he sent to you. (John 5:31-38 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Cornelius8L

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Brother, happy Sabbath, which starts this Friday November 18, 2022 at 9:38 am EST! The following passage tells us that the "overwhelming glory" of the Eleven Commandments over the glory of the Ten Commandments is more than the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments were an outline compared to the full-fledged Eleven Commandments in the exemplary life of Jesus.

He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Eleven Commandments). This is a covenant not of written laws (Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (reminding us to follow the exemplary life of Jesus). The old written covenant ends in death (sabotaged by human effort as in the story of Hagar); but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life (reminding us to follow the exemplary life of Jesus). The old way, with laws etched in stone (Ten Commandments), led to death (sabotaged by human effort as in the story of Hagar), though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way (Eleven Commandments), now that the Holy Spirit is giving life (reminding us to follow the exemplary life of Jesus)? If the old way (Ten Commandments), which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way (Eleven Commandments), which makes us right with God! In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way (Eleven Commandments). So if the old way (Ten Commandments), which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new (Eleven Commandments), which remains forever! (2 Corinthians 3:6-11 NLT)
Brother, just so that I understand your viewpoint correctly, do you mean the eleventh commandment is “keep the new covenant” (Sarah)?
The word for God used by Moses in Genesis 1:1 is plural! Jesus tells us in the following passage that Moses did not see or hear the Father. The one Moses saw and the voice heard by the people from the mountain was Jesus before the incarnation and not the Father, according to the following statement by Jesus.

“If I were to testify on my own behalf, my testimony would not be valid. But someone else is also testifying about me, and I assure you that everything he says about me is true. In fact, you sent investigators to listen to John the Baptist, and his testimony about me was true. Of course, I have no need of human witnesses, but I say these things so you might be saved. John was like a burning and shining lamp, and you were excited for a while about his message. But I have a greater witness than John—my teachings and my miracles. The Father gave me these works to accomplish, and they prove that he sent me. And the Father who sent me has testified about me himself. You have never heard his voice or seen his form, and you do not have his message in your hearts, because you do not believe me—the one he sent to you. (John 5:31-38 NLT fixed)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
What is your view on who is speaking in the below verse?

Jeremiah 31:32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt—a covenant they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.​
 
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guevaraj

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Brother, just so that I understand your viewpoint correctly, do you mean the eleventh commandment is “keep the new covenant” (Sarah)?
Brother, Sarah includes the original Ten Commandments rescued from Judaism's sabotaging God's law to not remove sin, which leads to death by replacing what God asked with their own "human effort" that does not remove sin when the point of obeying God's law is to remove sin. For example, to not misuse God's name, Judaism invented the human rule to not pronounce His name at all so as not to misuse His name. This "human effort" to obey God's law did not remove the sin that would otherwise have been removed had they done what God asked instead of what they decided to do instead, making Judaism a child of Hagar instead of a child of Sarah.

Tell me, you who want to live under the law (the rules of Judaism that does not remove sin), do you know what the law actually says? (The law says what is sin) The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons, one from his slave wife and one from his freeborn wife. The son of the slave wife was born in a human attempt to bring about the fulfillment of God’s promise (the promise to remove sin from our character). But the son of the freeborn wife was born as God’s own fulfillment of his promise. These two women serve as an illustration of God’s two covenants. The first woman, Hagar, represents Mount Sinai where people received the law that enslaved them (Judaism is enslaved in sin because they sabotaged God's law to not remove sin). And now Jerusalem is just like Mount Sinai in Arabia, because she and her children live in slavery (slavery to sin) to the law (added by the translators, not found in the original). But the other woman, Sarah, represents the heavenly Jerusalem. She is the free woman (free from sin), and she is our mother. As Isaiah said, “Rejoice, O childless woman, you who have never given birth! Break into a joyful shout, you who have never been in labor! For the desolate woman now has more children than the woman who lives with her husband!” And you, dear brothers and sisters, are children of the promise (the promise to remove sin from our character), just like Isaac. But you are now being persecuted by those who want you to keep the law (the rules of Judaism that does not remove sin), just as Ishmael, the child born by human effort, persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the Spirit. But what do the Scriptures say about that? “Get rid of the slave and her son, for the son of the slave woman will not share the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” So, dear brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman; we are children of the free woman. (Galatians 4:21-31 NLT fixed)​
What is your view on who is speaking in the below verse? Jeremiah 31:32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt—a covenant they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.
It is Jesus who made the convent of the Ten Commandments with us before the incarnation that Judaism sabotaged to not remove sin, which leads to death when the point of obeying God's law is to remove sin. Only God knows how to use laws to remove sin because, unlike us humans, He is not a "blind guide" to know how to remove sin by giving us the Eleven Commandments.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Leaf473

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Brother, happy Sabbath, which starts this Friday November 18, 2022 at 9:38 am EST! We were left to grow slowly in obedience to all that Moses wrote. James, in the first counsel in Jerusalem, reminded the early church of the primarily law-abiding Jews from their youth as the "part" of Israel that does not "harden" to Jesus to allow for the slow growth, under grace, of the new Gentiles who are turning to God as they listen to Moses every Sabbath, Gentiles who have not had the benefit of growing in obedience to Moses from their youth as they have. Paul is against the added human rules of Judaism, such as not pronouncing the name of God so as not to misuse His name. Not using God's name in vain seemed too difficult under the slow forgiveness through sacrifices. So the Jews sabotaged this law by adding their own rule not to pronounce His name. Such human rules of avoidance do not remove sin and the original law of God is easily obeyed today by praying for forgiveness under the quicker cycle of our High Priest Jesus. This allows growth more quickly in separating sin from our character than what had been possible by slower forgiveness through sacrifices.

And so my judgment is that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood. For these laws of Moses has been preached in Jewish synagogues in every city on every Sabbath for many generations.” (Acts 15:19-21 NIV fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, happy Sabbath, and may you rejoice in the Lord always!

Are you saying it is okay to set aside some of the commandments of God when you first become a Christian? If you don't mind saying, how long have you been a Christian, and what commandments are you currently setting aside?

United in loving God by keeping his commandments!
 
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guevaraj

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Brother, happy Sabbath, and may you rejoice in the Lord always! Are you saying it is okay to set aside some of the commandments of God when you first become a Christian? If you don't mind saying, how long have you been a Christian, and what commandments are you currently setting aside? United in loving God by keeping his commandments!
Brother, I was born in a Seventh-day Adventist home where both parents were Seventh-day Adventists and I have talked with God in prayer for as far back as I can remember. I am not celebrating the biblical feasts and can find no reason to set them aside other than I have not grown to celebrate them. I do believe that the next step in our growth is to free the Sabbath from human tradition since Joshua and then we may grow to keep the feasts because God "has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears". We are still growing in our understanding of the word of God "so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions".

See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don’t recognize that we are God’s children because they don’t know him. Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure. Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is. (1 John 3:1-6 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Brother, I was born in a Seventh-day Adventist home where both parents were Seventh-day Adventists and I have talked with God in prayer for as far back as I can remember. I am not celebrating the biblical feasts and can find no reason to set them aside other than I have not grown to celebrate them. I do believe that the next step in our growth is to free the Sabbath from human tradition since Joshua and then we may grow to keep the feasts because God "has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears". We are still growing in our understanding of the word of God "so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions".

See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don’t recognize that we are God’s children because they don’t know him. Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure. Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is. (1 John 3:1-6 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, happy Sabbath, and may you rejoice in the Lord always!

When you say
"I do believe that the next step in our growth is to free the Sabbath from human tradition...", do you mean that the church all grows in keeping the commandments together? So it's not individual new Christians keeping a certain set of commandments, and more mature Christians keeping additional commandments? All Christians are to be keeping the same set of commandments?

United in loving God by keeping his commandments!
 
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guevaraj

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Brother, happy Sabbath, and may you rejoice in the Lord always! When you say "I do believe that the next step in our growth is to free the Sabbath from human tradition...", do you mean that the church all grows in keeping the commandments together? So it's not individual new Christians keeping a certain set of commandments, and more mature Christians keeping additional commandments? All Christians are to be keeping the same set of commandments? United in loving God by keeping his commandments!
Brother, the reason I think freeing the Sabbath from human tradition is the next step is because of what the angel told our prophetess about learning "when it is" evening falls by being told to "read carefully", being "directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath" after having learned "what even is", the church having already learned that evening means sunset. We learned that evening means the setting of the sun after 8 years of keeping the Sabbath from 6 to 6 pm. The Angel told our prophetess that the church will understand Paul's correction of God's "day" of rest as I learned it, going back to Genesis, where the first evening falls in the middle of the first day: "Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet".

I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)​

Our prophetess had two visions about the Sabbath as told by her husband, James White, in the following article.


It is generally known to most of the readers of the Review, that for several years in the early history of Seventh-day Adventists, believers adopted six o'clock p.m. as the time for the Sabbath to commence and close. It is also known that in the autumn of 1855, the Review taught that sunset was the Bible time to commence the Sabbath, and that our people generally changed from six o'clock to sunset. Some of the circumstances connected with this change I wish here to state:
  1. The six o'clock time was called in question by a portion of the believers as early as 1847, some maintaining that the Sabbath commenced at sunrise, while others claimed Bible evidence in favor of sunset.
  2. Elder Joseph Bates, who was the first to teach the Sabbath in its importance, and faithfully labor to bring out a people from among the Adventists to observe it, was very decided upon the question, and respect for his years, and his godly life, might have been among the reasons why this point was not sooner investigated as thoroughly as some other points.
  3. In the autumn of 1855, Elder J. N. Andrews called on me at Battle Creek, on his way to Iowa, and set before me the scriptural reasons for commencing the Sabbath at sunset. He had written a clear article upon the subject, which he left with me, and which appeared in the Review for December 4, 1855. This article, however, before it appeared in the Review was read at the Conference at Battle Creek about that time, and the subject was discussed, resulting in settling the minds of the brethren on the sunset-time, with the exception of Brother Bates, and a few others. Since that time there has been general agreement among us upon the subject.
But there are persons who seek to injure us as a people and this class we hope to help by this article who report and publish to the world that Mrs. White did profess to be shown that the time to commence the Sabbath was six o'clock, and that at a later period she was shown that sunset was the true time. It is also stated that in vision she saw the dial-plate of a clock with one hand pointing to the 6, and other to 12, showing that six o'clock was the commencement and close of the Sabbath.

A simple statement of the facts in the case are sufficient to show these reports false. Hence we give the following statements, which we are ready to prove by most competent witnesses:
  1. Mrs. White has in two visions been shown something in regard to the time of the commencement of the Sabbath. The first was as early as 1847, at Topsham, Main. In the vision she was shown that to commence the Sabbath at sunrise was wrong. She then heard an angel repeat these words, "From even unto even shall ye celebrate your Sabbaths." Brother Bates was present and succeeded in satisfying all present that "even" was six o'clock. Mark this: The vision at Topsham did not teach the six o'clock time. It only corrected sunrise time. I never received the idea that the six o'clock time was sustained by the visions, hence the following which I copy from a statement I made in the Review upon the subject, December 4, 1855, as follows:
    • “We have never been fully satisfied with the testimony presented in favor of six o'clock, while the various communications received for a few years past advocating both sunrise and sunset time, have been almost destitute of argument, and the spirit of humility and candor. The subject has troubled us, yet we have never found time to thoroughly investigate it.
    • “In June, 1854, we urged Elder D. P. Hall to prepare an article on the subject for the Review. When with him in Pennsylvania, last winter, we repeated the request. When in Maine, last summer, we stated our feelings on this subject to Brother Andrews, and have fears of division unless the question could be settled by good testimony. He decided to devote his time to the subject till he ascertained what the Bible taught in regard to it, and his article in this number is the result of his investigation. Some have the impression that six o'clock time has been taught among us by the direct manifestation of the Holy Spirit. This is a mistake; ‘From even unto even’ was the teaching from which six o'clock time has been inferred.”
  2. In regard to the clock-face, twenty competent witnesses are ready to testify that neither Mrs. White nor her visions had anything to do with it whatever. When at Rocky Hill, Conn., in 1849, at a meeting on the Sabbath at the house of Brother Albert Belden, the time to commence the Sabbath was agitated. A brother present in whose spiritual exercises there was great confidence, seemed to be very powerfully exercised, and, amid groans and tears, he called for the chalk, and marked out upon the floor the figure of a clock face, the hands pointing out six o'clock. A general impression prevailed that this was the work of the Spirit of God; but Mrs. White had nothing to do with it whatever.
  3. At the close of the conference at Battle Creek referred to above, the ministers and others, especially interested in the cause had a special season of prayer for the prosperity of the cause, and in that meeting Mrs. White had a vision, one item of which was that sun set time was correct. This settled the matter with Brother Bates and others, and general harmony has since prevailed among us upon this point.
But the question naturally arises, If the visions are given to correct the erring, why did she not sooner see the error of the six o'clock time? For one I have ever been thankful that God corrected the error in his own good time, and did not suffer an unhappy division to exist among us upon the point. But, dear reader, the work of the Lord upon this point is in perfect harmony with his manifestations to us on others, and in harmony with the correct position upon spiritual gifts.

It does not appear to be the desire of the Lord to teach his people by the gifts of the Spirit on the Bible questions until his servants have diligently searched his word. When this was done upon the subject of time to commence the Sabbath, and most were established, and some were in danger of being out of harmony with the body on this subject, then, yes, then, was the very time for God to magnify his goodness in the manifestation of the gift of his Spirit in the accomplishment of its proper work.

The sacred Scriptures are given us as the rule of faith and duty, and we are commanded to search them. If we fail to understand and fully obey the truths in consequences of not searching the Scriptures as we should, or a want of consecration and spiritual discernment, and God in mercy in his own time corrects us by some manifestation of the gifts of his Holy Spirit, instead of murmuring that he did not do it before, let us humbly acknowledge his mercy, and praise him for his infinite goodness in condescending to correct us at all.

Let the gifts have their proper place in the church. God has never set them in the very front, and commanded us to look to them to lead us in the path of truth, and the way to Heaven. His word he has magnified. The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are man's lamp to light up his path to the kingdom. Follow that. But if you err from Bible truth, and are in danger of being lost, it may be that God will in time of his choice correct you, and bring you back to the Bible and save you. And would it become you in such a case to murmur and say, “Lord, why didst thou not do this before?” Take care! “Be still, and know that I am God.” Our necessity is his opportunity to teach us by the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Here is a video that tells the story of our church.


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Brother, the reason I think freeing the Sabbath from human tradition is the next step is because of what the angel told our prophetess about learning "when it is" evening falls by being told to "read carefully", being "directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath" after having learned "what even is", the church having already learned that evening means sunset. We learned that evening means the setting of the sun after 8 years of keeping the Sabbath from 6 to 6 pm. The Angel told our prophetess that the church will understand Paul's correction of God's "day" of rest as I learned it, going back to Genesis, where the first evening falls in the middle of the first day: "Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet".

I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)​

Our prophetess had two visions about the Sabbath as told by her husband, James White, in the following article.


It is generally known to most of the readers of the Review, that for several years in the early history of Seventh-day Adventists, believers adopted six o'clock p.m. as the time for the Sabbath to commence and close. It is also known that in the autumn of 1855, the Review taught that sunset was the Bible time to commence the Sabbath, and that our people generally changed from six o'clock to sunset. Some of the circumstances connected with this change I wish here to state:
  1. The six o'clock time was called in question by a portion of the believers as early as 1847, some maintaining that the Sabbath commenced at sunrise, while others claimed Bible evidence in favor of sunset.
  2. Elder Joseph Bates, who was the first to teach the Sabbath in its importance, and faithfully labor to bring out a people from among the Adventists to observe it, was very decided upon the question, and respect for his years, and his godly life, might have been among the reasons why this point was not sooner investigated as thoroughly as some other points.
  3. In the autumn of 1855, Elder J. N. Andrews called on me at Battle Creek, on his way to Iowa, and set before me the scriptural reasons for commencing the Sabbath at sunset. He had written a clear article upon the subject, which he left with me, and which appeared in the Review for December 4, 1855. This article, however, before it appeared in the Review was read at the Conference at Battle Creek about that time, and the subject was discussed, resulting in settling the minds of the brethren on the sunset-time, with the exception of Brother Bates, and a few others. Since that time there has been general agreement among us upon the subject.
But there are persons who seek to injure us as a people and this class we hope to help by this article who report and publish to the world that Mrs. White did profess to be shown that the time to commence the Sabbath was six o'clock, and that at a later period she was shown that sunset was the true time. It is also stated that in vision she saw the dial-plate of a clock with one hand pointing to the 6, and other to 12, showing that six o'clock was the commencement and close of the Sabbath.

A simple statement of the facts in the case are sufficient to show these reports false. Hence we give the following statements, which we are ready to prove by most competent witnesses:
  1. Mrs. White has in two visions been shown something in regard to the time of the commencement of the Sabbath. The first was as early as 1847, at Topsham, Main. In the vision she was shown that to commence the Sabbath at sunrise was wrong. She then heard an angel repeat these words, "From even unto even shall ye celebrate your Sabbaths." Brother Bates was present and succeeded in satisfying all present that "even" was six o'clock. Mark this: The vision at Topsham did not teach the six o'clock time. It only corrected sunrise time. I never received the idea that the six o'clock time was sustained by the visions, hence the following which I copy from a statement I made in the Review upon the subject, December 4, 1855, as follows:
    • “We have never been fully satisfied with the testimony presented in favor of six o'clock, while the various communications received for a few years past advocating both sunrise and sunset time, have been almost destitute of argument, and the spirit of humility and candor. The subject has troubled us, yet we have never found time to thoroughly investigate it.
    • “In June, 1854, we urged Elder D. P. Hall to prepare an article on the subject for the Review. When with him in Pennsylvania, last winter, we repeated the request. When in Maine, last summer, we stated our feelings on this subject to Brother Andrews, and have fears of division unless the question could be settled by good testimony. He decided to devote his time to the subject till he ascertained what the Bible taught in regard to it, and his article in this number is the result of his investigation. Some have the impression that six o'clock time has been taught among us by the direct manifestation of the Holy Spirit. This is a mistake; ‘From even unto even’ was the teaching from which six o'clock time has been inferred.”
  2. In regard to the clock-face, twenty competent witnesses are ready to testify that neither Mrs. White nor her visions had anything to do with it whatever. When at Rocky Hill, Conn., in 1849, at a meeting on the Sabbath at the house of Brother Albert Belden, the time to commence the Sabbath was agitated. A brother present in whose spiritual exercises there was great confidence, seemed to be very powerfully exercised, and, amid groans and tears, he called for the chalk, and marked out upon the floor the figure of a clock face, the hands pointing out six o'clock. A general impression prevailed that this was the work of the Spirit of God; but Mrs. White had nothing to do with it whatever.
  3. At the close of the conference at Battle Creek referred to above, the ministers and others, especially interested in the cause had a special season of prayer for the prosperity of the cause, and in that meeting Mrs. White had a vision, one item of which was that sun set time was correct. This settled the matter with Brother Bates and others, and general harmony has since prevailed among us upon this point.
But the question naturally arises, If the visions are given to correct the erring, why did she not sooner see the error of the six o'clock time? For one I have ever been thankful that God corrected the error in his own good time, and did not suffer an unhappy division to exist among us upon the point. But, dear reader, the work of the Lord upon this point is in perfect harmony with his manifestations to us on others, and in harmony with the correct position upon spiritual gifts.

It does not appear to be the desire of the Lord to teach his people by the gifts of the Spirit on the Bible questions until his servants have diligently searched his word. When this was done upon the subject of time to commence the Sabbath, and most were established, and some were in danger of being out of harmony with the body on this subject, then, yes, then, was the very time for God to magnify his goodness in the manifestation of the gift of his Spirit in the accomplishment of its proper work.

The sacred Scriptures are given us as the rule of faith and duty, and we are commanded to search them. If we fail to understand and fully obey the truths in consequences of not searching the Scriptures as we should, or a want of consecration and spiritual discernment, and God in mercy in his own time corrects us by some manifestation of the gifts of his Holy Spirit, instead of murmuring that he did not do it before, let us humbly acknowledge his mercy, and praise him for his infinite goodness in condescending to correct us at all.

Let the gifts have their proper place in the church. God has never set them in the very front, and commanded us to look to them to lead us in the path of truth, and the way to Heaven. His word he has magnified. The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are man's lamp to light up his path to the kingdom. Follow that. But if you err from Bible truth, and are in danger of being lost, it may be that God will in time of his choice correct you, and bring you back to the Bible and save you. And would it become you in such a case to murmur and say, “Lord, why didst thou not do this before?” Take care! “Be still, and know that I am God.” Our necessity is his opportunity to teach us by the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Here is a video that tells the story of our church.


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ!

So... Is that a Yes? The entire church is to be keeping the same set of commandments at the same time?

Some scripture,
Ephesians 4:13
...until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a full grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

United in searching God's word!
 
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