Did Jesus claim Divinity?

Gary51 · Feb 23, 2009

I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

Well this is odd.... No one has yet shown me any verses.... I'm beginning to think there are none!

As this is the 7th time I've made this simple request, it really is looking like there is none!

average650 · Feb 25, 2009

Gary51, this has been done for you, yet you keep asking. Most of those quotes are from John, written by John, who was an apostle. Clearly he thought that Jesus was God.

And why do you insist on versus showing that the disciples thought he was God? Why not simply look for versus that prove Jesus was God? The Disciples thinking he was God doesn't really prove much, they thought wrong just as often as most of us do. You're asking the wrong question.

average650 · Feb 25, 2009

Gary51, this has been done for you, yet you keep asking. Most of those quotes are from John, written by John, who was an apostle. Clearly he thought that Jesus was God.

And why do you insist on versus showing that the disciples thought he was God? Why not simply look for versus that prove Jesus was God? The Disciples thinking he was God doesn't really prove much, they thought wrong just as often as most of us do. You're asking the wrong question.

Gary51 · Feb 25, 2009

I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

Well this is odd.... No one has yet shown me any verses.... I'm beginning to think there are none!

As this is the 8th time I've made this simple request, it really is looking like there is none!

average650 · Feb 25, 2009

It's been shown to you!!!!!!!

John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 5:18 - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."

John 8:24 - "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."

John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

John 10:30-33 - "I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.

These are all written by John, an apostle. Clearly he thinks Jesus was God.

But you obviosuly didn't read my last post where I said that this wasn't what really mattered. I mean, the disciples thought wrong often. What the disciples think is not the end all be all, what is written and inspired by God is, and there is plenty of scripture to back up Jesus being God, as has been shown to you.

Read the posts!!!! Don't just spout this no one's answered me stuff

Albion · Feb 25, 2009

Gary51 said:
I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

Well this is odd.... No one has yet shown me any verses.... I'm beginning to think there are none!

As this is the 8th time I've made this simple request, it really is looking like there is none!

The verses have been shown to you repeatedly, Gary. You have in no way offered an explanation of why the testimony they appear to offer is, to you, an incorrect interpretation on our parts.

Therefore--and since we can't have a discussion unless two sides are willing to discuss--why don't we just close the thread and leave it at this: most of us find ample evidence that Jesus claimed to be God and that his Apostles saw him that way, but you are not convinced.

Is there really anything more to say?

Gary51 · Feb 25, 2009

Albion said:
The verses have been shown to you repeatedly, Gary. You have in no way offered an explanation of why the testimony they appear to offer is, to you, an incorrect interpretation on our parts.

Therefore--and since we can't have a discussion unless two sides are willing to discuss--why don't we just close the thread and leave it at this: most of us find ample evidence that Jesus claimed to be God and that his Apostles saw him that way, but you are not convinced.

Is there really anything more to say?

Yes. My point is and always was, "Did the Apostles believe Jesus was God" I have received no proof, so......

I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

Well this is odd.... No one has yet shown me any verses.... I'm beginning to think there are none!

As this is the 9th time I've made this simple request, it really is looking like there is none!

average650 · Feb 25, 2009

did you even read my posts?

Gary51 · Feb 25, 2009

average650 said:
did you even read my posts?

Yes... and how does that answers my question? So.....

I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

Well this is odd.... No one has yet shown me any verses.... I'm beginning to think there are none!

As this is the 10th time I've made this simple request, it really is looking like there is none!

average650 · Feb 25, 2009

the first part shows you that at least 1 apostle thought Jesus was God, and the second part shows you that it doesn't matter and it's not a good question anyway.

Gary51 · Feb 25, 2009

average650 said:
the first part shows you that at least 1 apostle thought Jesus was God, and the second part shows you that it doesn't matter and it's not a good question anyway.

The first part shows you that you think one Aposle thought Jesus was God!

And the second part shows that you have no proof to show me that the Apostles did believe Jesus was God. And if it's not a good quesI just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

Well this is odd.... No one has yet shown me any verses.... I'm beginning to think there are none!

As this is the 11th time I've made this simple request, it really is looking like there is none! tion as you assert, why are you trying to answer it with supposed inferences.

Gary51 · Feb 25, 2009

average650 said:
the first part shows you that at least 1 apostle thought Jesus was God, and the second part shows you that it doesn't matter and it's not a good question anyway.

The first part shows YOU that one thought Jesus was God. The Second part shows you have no answers. So, if as you seem to be asserting that the Apostles believed Jesus was God, I look forward to the proof you must have!

So.....

I just want to be shown verses which prove the Apostles thought Jesus was God.... That's all.

Well this is odd.... No one has yet shown me any verses.... I'm beginning to think there are none!

As this is the 11th time I've made this simple request, it really is looking like there is none!

average650 · Feb 25, 2009

The first does prove that John thought Jesus was God, not just that I think it; it's quite clear.

let's try another verse. Matthew 28:16-17

Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him

Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered him, "It is written: 'worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.'"

average650 · Feb 25, 2009

The first does prove that John thought Jesus was God, not just that I think it; it's quite clear.

let's try another verse. Matthew 28:16-17

Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him

Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered him, "It is written: 'worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.'"

and as I said before, the disciples thinking something does not make it true or false, they are wrong many times. The word of God makes it true or false and there is plenty of evidence there.

and sorry about the weird double posting, I don't know why it's doing that.

SoldierOfTheKing · Feb 25, 2009

Gary, what do you suppose John meant by these verses? To most of the people here they quite clearly indicate that John believed in Christ's divinity. Perhaps you have some insight you can share?

k2svpete · Feb 26, 2009

Those quotes do no such thing. It is plain that the meaning of those verses is shielded from you as I have already shown the context and meaning behind a couple of them.

k2svpete · Feb 26, 2009

SOFTK - Trinitarians hold onto those verses, without understanding the context, language or Jewish mindset; as support for the erroneous belief that Jesus was God when Jesus himself disagrees with those quotes.

Even the example given above in Luke 4:8 is Jesus rebuking the disciples for worshipping him. He corrects them by telling them that the scripture instructs to worship God and serve Him only.

average650 · Feb 26, 2009

wrong pete. In context. 4:8 is when Jesus is tempted by the devil, it has no context relating to the disciples.

I looked through, skimmed anyway, as this topic is extremely long, and I only found you attempt to rebute John 20:28. I'm not saying you didn't because these is a very large topic, but could you repeat them again, as I did not see them.

average650 · Feb 26, 2009

wrong pete. In context. 4:8 is when Jesus is tempted by the devil, it has no context relating to the disciples.

I looked through the rest of this topic, well skimmed anyway as this topic is extremely long, and I only found you attempt to rebute John 20:28. I'm not saying you didn't talk about others because these is a very large topic, but could you repeat them again?

SoldierOfTheKing · Feb 26, 2009

k2svpete said:
SOFTK - Trinitarians hold onto those verses, without understanding the context, language or Jewish mindset; as support for the erroneous belief that Jesus was God when Jesus himself disagrees with those quotes.

Well, then it sounds like you have some idea of what they mean, let's hear it. Why don't we start with John 1:1?

Did Jesus claim Divinity?

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