Did Jesus claim Divinity?

Jesus_islam said:

angelmom01,

Just wondering how (or if) you understand the distinction between the Father and the Son?

Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is A MAN. Not only was He the son of God, he was also the son of man.

A MAN or GOD....? He can't be both.

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And yet he is. Jesus was 100% God and 100% Man.
Let's let you think about THAT one for awhile, lol.

Jesus_islam said:

Did Jesus say he is a God?

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Not in so many words. But he did and said what he knew scripture said only YHWH could say and do.

Jesus_Islam, would you agree that anything is possible with God? That nothing is outside the ability of God? If this is so, then to say that Jesus cannot be both man and God is to limit the abilities of God.

Peace,
Nancy

Hentenza said:

Jesus is never directly said in the Bible the exact words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, “We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.” That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!" Again, in response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God?

John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “the Word became flesh.” This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "...Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased the church with His own blood. So, Jesus is God!

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, "But about the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom."

In Revelation, an angel instructed the Apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9,17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation had. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

The most important reason that Jesus IS God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

Yes, Jesus is God.

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Great answer Hentenza, I agree 100% Jesus is a 100% human and 100% Divine.

CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS & RESEARCH MINISTRY Jesus is God in human flesh. He is not half God and half man. He is fully divine and fully man. That is, Jesus has two distinct natures: divine and human. Jesus is the Word who was God and was with God and was made flesh, (John 1:1,14). This means that in the single person of Jesus is both a human and divine nature. The divine nature was not changed. It was not altered. He is not merely a man who "had God within Him" nor is he a man who "manifested the God principle." He is God, second person of the Trinity. "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word," (Heb. 1:3, NIV). Jesus' two natures are not "mixed together," nor are they combined into a new God-man nature. They are separate yet act as a unit in the one person of Jesus. This is called the Hypostatic Union.
The following chart should help you see the two natures of Jesus "in action":
GOD MAN He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33).He worshiped the Father (John 17).He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5).He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37)He is prayed to (Acts 7:59).He prayed to the Father (John 17).He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15).He was tempted (Matt. 4:1).He knows all things (John 21:17).He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52).He gives eternal life (John 10:28).He died (Rom. 5:8).All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9).He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). A doctrine that is related to the Hypostatic Union is the communicatio idiomatum (Latin for "communication of properties"). It is the teaching that the attributes of both the divine and human natures are ascribed to the one person of Jesus. This means that the man Jesus could lay claim to the glory He had with the Father before the world was made (John 17:5), claim that He descended from heaven, (John 3:13), and also claim omnipresence, (Matt. 28:20). All of these are divine qualities that are laid claim to by Jesus; therefore, the attributes of the divine properties were claimed by the person of Jesus.
One of the most common errors that non-Christian cults make is not understanding the two natures of Christ. For example, the Jehovah's Witnesses focus on Jesus' humanity and ignore His divinity. They repeatedly quote verses dealing with Jesus as a man and try and set them against scripture showing that Jesus is also divine. On the other hand, the Christian Scientists do the reverse. They focus on the scriptures showing Jesus' divinity to the extent of denying His true humanity.
For a proper understanding of Jesus and, therefore, all other doctrines that relate to Him, His two natures must be properly understood and defined. Jesus is one person with two natures. This is why He would grow in wisdom and stature (Luke 2:52) yet know all things (John 21:17). He is the Divine Word that became flesh (John 1:1,14).
The Bible is about Jesus (John 5:39). The prophets prophesied about Him (Acts 10:43). The Father bore witness of Him (John 5:37; 8:18). The Holy Spirit bore witness of Him (John 15:26). The works Jesus did bore witness of Him (John 5:36; 10:25). The multitudes bore witness of Him (John 12:17). And, Jesus bore witness of Himself (John 14:6; 18:6).
Other verses to consider when examining His deity are John 10:30-33; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:6-8; and 2 Pet. 1:1.
1 Tim. 2:5 says, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Right now, there is a man in heaven on the throne of God. He is our advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1). He is our Savior (Titus 2:13). He is our Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). He is Jesus.
33,532,223

Jesus_islam said:

But it's not said direclty "I am your God and you have to Worship me"...
All are just your conclusion, a God won't let this to chance, if jesus was God had to make it clear...am waiting for clear claiming of Jesus that he is God...
Thank you

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The John 8:58 IS the clear claim to diety. It is Christ claiming the EXACT SAME ESSENCE as the One who spoke in Ex. 3:14. The eimi contrasted with the tense of genesthai pretty much seals the deal. Christ is claiming eternality . . . something a mere man would not do unless he was insane. This is why the Jews then sought to stone Him.

So, it is not simply a "conclusion" it is the clear meaning of the passage . . . found in the Greek and even clearer by the response of the Jews.

And He quite clearly accepted worship on at least two occasions . . .

He is also given divine ascriptions quite clearly in Revelation . . .

Jesus_islam said:

angelmom01,

Just wondering how (or if) you understand the distinction between the Father and the Son?

Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is A MAN. Not only was He the son of God, he was also the son of man.

A MAN or GOD....? He can't be both.

Click to expand...

Actually Son of Man is a reference to an OT figure in Daniel . . . who was quite deified.

You are Muslim? Yet you concede that Jesus was God's Son? Isn't that shirk? Or are you playing Devil's Advocate?

John 5
1 After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.
4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
5 And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.
6 When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
7 The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.
12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk?
13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.
14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.
16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

• To this point, God was referred to as Father only in a collective sense "our Father."
• So each time Jesus refers to God as his personal Father he is claiming deity
• The experts in the Law confirm this by the fact that in their unbelief in him they believe him to be blaspheming

John 5
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

• This is not back pedaling rather it is confirming that a father and a son are cut from the same cloth
• Note that any limitations of the Son are of his human nature (which he does not share with the Father)
• But clearly of his own ability in the nature he shares with the Father he can do what the Father does also (which is deity any way you look at it... anything less undeifies the Father)

John 5
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

• Because (in order to become the incarnate kinsman redeemer) the Word became flesh the authority to give life and to judge were given to him...
• Take care to note the distinction between the two natures Son of God and Son of man
• As the Son of God (in his Spirit nature he is God)
• As the Son of man (he is human and subject to its limitations)

John5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Let's take a peek at that witness...

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Jesus_Islam, I really don't expect you to accept or believe these truths, but you cannot in good conscience now claim that Jesus never claimed to be God nor that the Father did not claim he is God.

Jesus_islam said:

angelmom01,

Just wondering how (or if) you understand the distinction between the Father and the Son?

Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is A MAN. Not only was He the son of God, he was also the son of man.

A MAN or GOD....? He can't be both.

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Psalm 110:1 Here is YHWH's proclamation to my Lord:
“Sit down at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool!”


110:5 O sovereign Lord, at your right hand
he strikes down kings in the day he unleashes his anger.

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YHWH shares His throne?

Dan 7:1 In the first year of King Belshazzar of Babylon, Daniel had a dream filled with visions while he was lying on his bed. Then he wrote down the dream in summary fashion.

7:9 “While I was watching,
thrones were set up,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat.


7:13 I was watching in the night visions,
“And with the clouds of the sky
one like a son of man was approaching.
He went up to the Ancient of Days
and was escorted before him.
7:14 To him was given ruling authority, honor, and sovereignty.
All peoples, nations, and language groups were serving him.
His authority is eternal and will not pass away.
His kingdom will not be destroyed.

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He shares His throne with a man?

Matt 14:22 Immediately Jesus made the disciples get into the boat and go ahead of him to the other side, while he dispersed the crowds. 14:23 And after he sent the crowds away, he went up the mountain by himself to pray. When evening came, he was there alone. 14:24 Meanwhile the boat, already far from land, was taking a beating from the waves because the wind was against it. 14:25 As the night was ending, Jesus came to them walking on the sea.

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Isn't it interesting that Jesus walks on water? Consider what the Old Testament has to say about GOD and such things:

Job 9:8 He alone spreads out the heavens,
and treads on the waves of the sea;

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Psalm 77:16 The waters saw you, O God,
the waters saw you and trembled.
Yes, the depths of the sea shook with fear.
77:17 The clouds poured down rain;
the skies thundered.
Yes, your arrows flashed about.
77:18 Your thunderous voice was heard in the wind;
the lightning bolts lit up the world;
the earth trembled and shook.
77:19 You walked through the sea;
you passed through the surging waters,
but left no footprints.

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Mathetes the kerux said:

The John 8:58 IS the clear claim to diety. It is Christ claiming the EXACT SAME ESSENCE as the One who spoke in Ex. 3:14. The eimi contrasted with the tense of genesthai pretty much seals the deal. Christ is claiming eternality . . . something a mere man would not do unless he was insane. This is why the Jews then sought to stone Him.

So, it is not simply a "conclusion" it is the clear meaning of the passage . . . found in the Greek and even clearer by the response of the Jews.

And He quite clearly accepted worship on at least two occasions . . .

He is also given divine ascriptions quite clearly in Revelation . . .

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Study the above article (Jesus' Two Natures) and look up all the scriptures.

yashualover said:

Study the above article (Jesus' Two Natures) and look up all the scriptures.

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How 'bout you just make it easy for me and tell me what is on your mind?

Mathetes the kerux said:

The John 8:58 IS the clear claim to diety. It is Christ claiming the EXACT SAME ESSENCE as the One who spoke in Ex. 3:14. The eimi contrasted with the tense of genesthai pretty much seals the deal. Christ is claiming eternality . . . something a mere man would not do unless he was insane. This is why the Jews then sought to stone Him.

So, it is not simply a "conclusion" it is the clear meaning of the passage . . . found in the Greek and even clearer by the response of the Jews.

And He quite clearly accepted worship on at least two occasions . . .

He is also given divine ascriptions quite clearly in Revelation . . .

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1. It is a inference and not a clear claim. 2) The account response of the Jews is what gives the inference meaning, and 3) take it a grain of salt that it ever happened.

JoyJuice said:

1. It is a inference and not a clear claim. 2) The account response of the Jews is what gives the inference meaning, and 3) take it a grain of salt that it ever happened.

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It is quite a clear claim. The Greek between the two passages is verbatim. Jesus claims the same essence as YHWH . . . that is a claim to deity . . . the response of the Jews AFFIRMS THE CLAIM . . . not infers it.

And if you don't believe the Scriptures . . . then why even post where people are assuming the truth of the account . . . that is quite disengenuous . . .

Jesus_islam said:

But it's not said direclty "I am your God and you have to Worship me"...
All are just your conclusion, a God won't let this to chance, if jesus was God had to make it clear...am waiting for clear claiming of Jesus that he is God...
Thank you

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Tell me something.

Pretend you are a Jew living in the first century and you meet Jesus. Keep in mind that Jesus is standing before you and He is obviously a man.

Jesus says to you: "I am your God and you have to worship me."

Would you do it?

If not, why not?

Thanks.

Mathetes the kerux said:

It is quite a clear claim. The Greek between the two passages is verbatim. Jesus claims the same essence as YHWH . . . that is a claim to deity . . . the response of the Jews AFFIRMS THE CLAIM . . . not infers it.

And if you don't believe the Scriptures . . . then why even post where people are assuming the truth of the account . . . that is quite disengenuous . . .

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It's not about "believing the literature" it's about reading the literature. And there is no reason to assume the account true specially given the time and context variation from earlier Jesus traditions. It has nothing to do with being disengenuous.

It is a play on words and not a clear direct claim. If the reaction from the group picking up stones was omitted, no one wouldn't have gotten the inference the author is making. The play on words hangs on the reaction.

cCensor said:

These are great verses. Love them both, but would not have used them. There are so many, but I love the I AM THAT I AM. You did great!

If you read in John 18 when they came for Jesus, Jesus asked whom to you seek? The troops said "Jesus of Nazareth". Jesus said I AM he. The word he is not in the Greek. Jesus was saying I AM as He did in Ex 3. It was the same God. Jesus was in the burning bush and all the way through the bible.
When Jesus said I AM when they came to take Him they all fell down like Moses had before the burning bush.

Love Censor

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Oh! boy, you guys are absolutely hilarious. The commander or whoever did not ask, "Which one of you is God?" or "which one of you is the I am that I am of the Jews?" He did not ask them who was the God among them.

He simply asked which one was the man Jesus and Jesus told him it was him.

BMZ

GeorgeTwo said:

Tell me something.

Pretend you are a Jew living in the first century and you meet Jesus. Keep in mind that Jesus is standing before you and He is obviously a man.

Jesus says to you: "I am your God and you have to worship me."

Would you do it?

If not, why not?

Thanks.

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There is no need to imagine or pretend.

That is the real problem. His biggest blunder was that he never said,"I am God." He never openly said or himself claimed anything like that.

If I were a Jew, I would not have believed him and I would not have done it because a 29 y.o young man came out of the blue and spoke in incoherent riddles, never making himself clear.

The Jesus, I truly see, was a man who kept up the Shema three times a day like any other Jew faithful only to the Lord Almighty God.

Cheers
BMZ

CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS & RESEARCH MINISTRY
Jesus is God in human flesh. He is not half God and half man. He is fully divine and fully man. That is, Jesus has two distinct natures: divine and human. Jesus is the Word who was God and was with God and was made flesh, (John 1:1,14). This means that in the single person of Jesus is both a human and divine nature. The divine nature was not changed. It was not altered. He is not merely a man who "had God within Him" nor is he a man who "manifested the God principle." He is God, second person of the Trinity. "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word," (Heb. 1:3, NIV). Jesus' two natures are not "mixed together," nor are they combined into a new God-man nature. They are separate yet act as a unit in the one person of Jesus. This is called the Hypostatic Union.
The following chart should help you see the two natures of Jesus "in action":
GOD MAN He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33).He worshiped the Father (John 17).He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5).He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37)He is prayed to (Acts 7:59).He prayed to the Father (John 17).He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15).He was tempted (Matt. 4:1).He knows all things (John 21:17).He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52).He gives eternal life (John 10:28).He died (Rom. 5:8).All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9).He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39).
A doctrine that is related to the Hypostatic Union is the communicatio idiomatum (Latin for "communication of properties"). It is the teaching that the attributes of both the divine and human natures are ascribed to the one person of Jesus. This means that the man Jesus could lay claim to the glory He had with the Father before the world was made (John 17:5), claim that He descended from heaven, (John 3:13), and also claim omnipresence, (Matt. 28:20). All of these are divine qualities that are laid claim to by Jesus; therefore, the attributes of the divine properties were claimed by the person of Jesus.

One of the most common errors that non-Christian cults make is not understanding the two natures of Christ. For example, the Jehovah's Witnesses focus on Jesus' humanity and ignore His divinity. They repeatedly quote verses dealing with Jesus as a man and try and set them against scripture showing that Jesus is also divine. On the other hand, the Christian Scientists do the reverse. They focus on the scriptures showing Jesus' divinity to the extent of denying His true humanity.
For a proper understanding of Jesus and, therefore, all other doctrines that relate to Him, His two natures must be properly understood and defined. Jesus is one person with two natures. This is why He would grow in wisdom and stature (Luke 2:52) yet know all things (John 21:17). He is the Divine Word that became flesh (John 1:1,14).
The Bible is about Jesus (John 5:39). The prophets prophesied about Him (Acts 10:43). The Father bore witness of Him (John 5:37; 8:18). The Holy Spirit bore witness of Him (John 15:26). The works Jesus did bore witness of Him (John 5:36; 10:25). The multitudes bore witness of Him (John 12:17). And, Jesus bore witness of Himself (John 14:6; 18:6).
Other verses to consider when examining His deity are John 10:30-33; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:6-8; and 2 Pet. 1:1.
1 Tim. 2:5 says, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Right now, there is a man in heaven on the throne of God. He is our advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1). He is our Savior (Titus 2:13). He is our Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). He is Jesus.