Did Jesus claim Divinity?

[Hentenza]

NO... Over to you.

So if Jesus is not a mere man then is He God?

 

[scriptures]

So if Jesus is not a mere man then is He God?

Wrong question again...... It should be man? God himself? or only begotten son?

 

[scriptures]

YOU AREN'T DEFINING WHAT 'SON' OR 'ONLY BEGOTTEN' ARE.

All they do is throw a title around... title's mean very little when you can't define the position itself - or who holds it.

I can toss around any title, but it's useless unless you grasp the definitions. This is why people "sound" Christian when they use all the Christian jargon & buzzwords.
Get past that into definitions & you'll find they're complete opposites in what they mean & believe.

It isn't enough to toss out a title/name & then walk away when asked for the definition. SON OF GOD/only begotten....
what do they mean as to Jesus' being/entity??
WHO/WHAT is He??

He's born of a virgin... what is that? What does that make Him?
How is one HUMAN without a biological father & mother for procreation?

Again, tossing around titles doesn't explain anything - what do they mean to you literally by definition?

You have to rely on your Bible and not to man made definitions.....

 

[Gary51]

You still have not answered my question.

Yes I have in post #300...

Now, I said over to you.

 

[Gary51]

Yeah... it's funny how Mathetes has not come back... I wonder if Nadine could step in for him...

Here is my answer again...

The bible clearly states that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God...

Which means that the Father begat the Son, who is Jesus...

The father did not begat any more sons... So Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

Awaiting correction....

In plain understandable English please... as I have given.

It appears that Mathetes, Nadiine and Hentenza like to ask questions... but they don't like to answer them.

 

[PeacaHeaven]

Yes Jesus claimed He was God a few times. When the crowds heard him make the claim they tried to stone Him for blasphemy.

 

[Gary51]

Yes Jesus claimed He was God a few times. When the crowds heard him make the claim they tried to stone Him for blasphemy.

Maybe you would like to read the entire thread... that one has been done...

But while you're here, could you help out Hentenza, Mathetes and Nadiine as the seem to be struggling with the correction I've asked Mathetes for?

Read post #301

 

[Nadiine]

Yes Jesus claimed He was God a few times. When the crowds heard him make the claim they tried to stone Him for blasphemy.

yep, absolutely.
In their day, customs and in their language, that's exactly what they understood Him to claim.
AND, HE NEVER DENIED IT.

Also, He claimed to forgive sin (which only God can do) and many other things noted in both testaments that combine with His claims.
Absolutely.

 

[Nadiine]

Yeah... it's funny how Mathetes has not come back... I wonder if Nadine could step in for him...

Here is my answer again...

The bible clearly states that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God...

Which means that the Father begat the Son, who is Jesus...

The father did not begat any more sons... So Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

Awaiting correction....

In plain understandable English please... as I have given.

We asked YOU to define what YOU mean by "only begotten"...
have you yet?? What do you mean by "begotton"?
Are you claiming the Father "sired" Jesus Christ? as in procreation? or what?

you keep hurling stuff out yet haven't answered anything we've asked that I've seen.

If so, where is the post where you answer with your definitions?

 

[Gary51]

We asked YOU to define what YOU mean by "only begotten"...
have you yet?? What do you mean by "begotton"?
Are you claiming the Father "sired" Jesus Christ? as in procreation? or what?

you keep hurling stuff out yet haven't answered anything we've asked that I've seen.

If so, where is the post where you answer with your definitions?

Here we go again... more questions... no answers!!

The bible clearly states that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God...

Which means that the Father begat the Son, who is Jesus...

The father did not begat any more sons... So Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

Now you seem to be having trouble understanding that simple explanation... You seem to be stuck on the word BEGOTTEN.

Maybe you don't have access to a dictionary... but most dictionaries will define the word "Begotten" as "Offspring."

Now, don't be silly and say it takes two to have offspring. We all know that there is no Mrs God...

God does not tell us how He begat Jesus, just like he didn't tell us how he created the Angels... But begat Him He did, for we are clearly told that, Jesus is the only BEGOTTEN Son of God.

Now, please play fair and tell us what you think "The only begotten Son of God means.

Your turn ok!

 

[Nadiine]

Here we go again... more questions... no answers!!

The bible clearly states that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God...

Which means that the Father begat the Son, who is Jesus...

The father did not begat any more sons... So Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

Now you seem to be having trouble understanding that simple explanation... You seem to be stuck on the word BEGOTTEN.

Maybe you don't have access to a dictionary... but most dictionaries will define the word "Begotten" as "Offspring."

Now, don't be silly and say it takes two to have offspring. We all know that there is no Mrs God...

God does not tell us how He begat Jesus, just like he didn't tell us how he created the Angels... But begat Him He did, for we are clearly told that, Jesus is the only BEGOTTEN Son of God.

Now, please play fair and tell us what you think "The only begotten Son of God means.

Your turn ok!

Does anybody just speak to issues without tossing in personal slams & jabs everywhere? Stick to issues, it honestly makes you look rude & hostile to berate people personally.
I resent that you're falsely accusing me of not playing fair when you both refused to answer our Q's for days - back & forth w/ semantics.

& Why say it's silly? Do you know why we kept asking you?

Do you realize that biblically there are several meanings for this & different religions teach separate things about begotten? Mormon's teach Christ was sired prior as a spirit child (and had a spirit [heavenly] mother) and then literally sired by a (flesh & bone) Heavenly Father w/ Mary.

So don't think you're being patronized when asked what you mean by a term you toss around without defining properly.
We are being fair, we need information to find out what exactly you define terms as. Asking you to be specific isn't asking too much if you want to actually get into this in depth & be on the same page.

With that false accusation cleared up, we can move on.
But now I don't have time to refute it in depth, so I'll come back later.

 

[Zebra1552]

Gary, tell us something, if you will. Which is more important- the truth and finding it, or picking apart the path to the truth and never getting there? It is a simple question and has no implication.

Hey, Gary, I asked you a question in case you are interested in answering it.

 

[Christopher LaRock]

No, he didn't. At least not directly.

Actually, He did. And the Jews who heard Him understood this.

Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.
Joh 10:31 The Jews then took up stones to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them: Many good works I have shewed you from my Father. For which of those works do you stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy: and because that thou. being a, man, makest thyself God.

 

[Gary51]

I may open a tread with this question, as no one is coming forward with an answer... all I get is more questions!!!

I must presume no one can answer... If that is the case, can some come forward and say, "I can't answer that"

 

[scriptures]

We asked YOU to define what YOU mean by "only begotten"...
have you yet?? What do you mean by "begotton"?
Are you claiming the Father "sired" Jesus Christ? as in procreation? or what?

you keep hurling stuff out yet haven't answered anything we've asked that I've seen.

If so, where is the post where you answer with your definitions?

(Mat 16:16 LITV) And answering, Simon Peter said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Do you need to question this confession?

 

[Nadiine]

Wrong again, we said, Jesus is "the only begotten son of God." the words are clear, without human, manmade definitions....

if they're so clear, then go ask Mormons what they believe about only begotten! They sure don't believe it means what Gary says he believes it means. Why not if it's so clear?
It's a title as well. Define the title.

And Jesus CLEARLY claimed He was God, yet it's not so clear to YOU now is it?
I rest my case.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Here we go again... more questions... no answers!!

The bible clearly states that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God...

Which means that the Father begat the Son, who is Jesus...

The father did not begat any more sons... So Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

Now you seem to be having trouble understanding that simple explanation... You seem to be stuck on the word BEGOTTEN.

Maybe you don't have access to a dictionary... but most dictionaries will define the word "Begotten" as "Offspring."

Now, don't be silly and say it takes two to have offspring. We all know that there is no Mrs God...

God does not tell us how He begat Jesus, just like he didn't tell us how he created the Angels... But begat Him He did, for we are clearly told that, Jesus is the only BEGOTTEN Son of God.

Now, please play fair and tell us what you think "The only begotten Son of God means.

Your turn ok!

Um . . . Gary . . . YOU were the one who broached the "begotten" issue . . . so that kinda determines that "begotten" is the issue to be stuck on.

Her question is WHAT do think is meant by "begotten"?

Cause if this:

God does not tell us how He begat Jesus,

Is really how you feel . . . then you cannot use the "begat" arguement against a Trinitarian understanding of the Godhead . . . because you don't even understand what He means . . . ergo, if you don't understand what He means . . . then how can you say what He means contradicts Trinity?

You can't.

SO . . . if you think that the term "begotten" mitigates AGAINST Trinity (which is what you have been arguing) then you MUST therefore have an opinion on WHAT begotten means or entails. THAT is what she is asking.

To claim that you don't know because God doesn't tell us is essentially to refute your own line of reasoning . . . and therefore you must give up the arguement that it contradicts Trinity.

BUT, God does indeed tell us what and begotten means (per the Greek usage) and HOW Jesus is such.

Maybe you don't have access to a dictionary... but most dictionaries will define the word "Begotten" as "Offspring."

Yeah in English . . . but we are not talking about English.

We are speaking of Greek and Greek has a different meaning. Like David . . .

Ps 89:27
27 "I also shall make him My firstborn,
The highest of the kings of the earth.
NASU

who was certainly not the "offspring" of God. The term is OFTEN used in the sense of preeminance . . . as it is here.

and

Ps 2:7
7 "I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD:
He said to Me, 'You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
NASU

where David (or Israel) is certainly not the "offspring" of God.

These are proofs of the wide range of ancient concepts held within the statements. It does not need to literally mean "offspring."

Otherwise your ridgid interpretation means God had sex with Mary . . . perhaps you should then become a Mormon?

 

[Gary51]

Um . . . Gary . . . YOU were the one who broached the "begotten" issue . . . so that kinda determines that "begotten" is the issue to be stuck on.

No not really, I accept what the Bible say's, "Jesus is the only begotten Son of God"... But the word begotten is often dropped for, "Jesus the Son of God"... I just wanted to bring it back into focus.

Her question is WHAT do think is meant by "begotten"?

And I told her, the post is there for all to see.

Cause if this:

Is really how you feel . . . then you cannot use the "begat" arguement against a Trinitarian understanding of the Godhead . . . because you don't even understand what He means . . . ergo, if you don't understand what He means . . . then how can you say what He means contradicts Trinity?

There is no trinity... And I can use the word begat, because Jesus was begotten.

SO . . . if you think that the term "begotten" mitigates AGAINST Trinity (which is what you have been arguing) then you MUST therefore have an opinion on WHAT begotten means or entails. THAT is what she is asking.

I don't think it, I know it... because there is no trinity. You ask again on my opinion what begotten means. Again, I have explained in a post.

To claim that you don't know because God doesn't tell us is essentially to refute your own line of reasoning . . . and therefore you must give up the arguement that it contradicts Trinity.

It is not a claim it is a fact.... God does not tell us everything as you well know. We know He created the Angels... but He didn't tell us how... He told us That Jesus is His only begotten Son... But He didn't tell us how.

BUT, God does indeed tell us what and begotten means (per the Greek usage) and HOW Jesus is such.

Yeah in English . . . but we are not talking about English.
We are speaking of Greek and Greek has a different meaning.

Yes... this is your way out, every time you have no answer you bring in the same old trick... "It's in the Greek" It won't work... Try something else.

Like David . . .

Ps 89:27
27 "I also shall make him My firstborn,
The highest of the kings of the earth.
NASU

who was certainly not the "offspring" of God. The term is OFTEN used in the sense of preeminance . . . as it is here.

and

Ps 2:7
7 "I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD:
He said to Me, 'You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
NASU

where David (or Israel) is certainly not the "offspring" of God.

These are proofs of the wide range of ancient concepts held within the statements. It does not need to literally mean "offspring."

Very nice be it does not explain... Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

Otherwise your ridgid interpretation means God had sex with Mary . . . perhaps you should then become a Mormon?

Again, I have explained in my post... Did you miss it or something?

So are you saying that Jesus was not begotten until his conception in Mary? I'm not quote sure how your mind is working here...

Interesting that you[/quote]Funny that you should ask that, because I thought that might be your answer... It sure isn't mine... See my post.

Now, can you answer a question without a question?

Can you explain in detail, Why Scripture says that, Jesus is the Only begotten Son of God?

Make it simple as I don't have your trinitarian mindset... That is not an insult, I truly have no belief in a trinity. So help me out.

 

[Zebra1552]

I may open a tread with this question, as no one is coming forward with an answer... all I get is more questions!!!

I must presume no one can answer... If that is the case, can some come forward and say, "I can't answer that"

Maybe because people are not hearing you answer the questions they asked first?

 

[scriptures]

if they're so clear, then go ask Mormons what they believe about only begotten! They sure don't believe it means what Gary says he believes it means. Why not if it's so clear?
It's a title as well. Define the title.

And Jesus CLEARLY claimed He was God, yet it's not so clear to YOU now is it?
I rest my case.

I based my beliefs on what I read.....What is clear is that Jesus is the son of God and he is Christ.....not Trinity....rely on the Bible only.....

(Mat 16:16 LITV) And answering, Simon Peter said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.

By now, I think I know almost every verse use by trinitarians.... they are not convincing.... so I settled on what is basic.... that is Jesus is Christ and son of God.....

Human philosophy is nothing compared to the word of God.....