Did humans descend from Apes?

[AnotherAtheist]

true. but that was "brightmoon" argument in the first place: "In vertebrates without limbs we see the same genes for making limbs". means that those creatures lost their limbs. so as we both see now its not true since those genes are multifunctional.

It's more complicated than that. Some genes are properly lost, such as the primate gene for vitamin C, while some are repurposed. There is a difference, and a need to explain why non-functional genes are still there.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

Sure. The first firmament, which God called Heaven, was made the 2nd Day. Gen 1:8 Other Heavens were made by Lord God on the next Day, (Big Bang) the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 Most scholars study the ancient views of the Hebrews but God tells us that ONLY the people living in the last days, have the "increased knowledge" to understand Scripture. Daniel 12:4

It's the Truth since most people here have NO idea what Genesis actually says. They are "willingly ignorant" of God's Truth, which means they are uneducated about His Truth by their own free choice. Amen?

I do actually check the scriptures when people quote them to me. In your case, I have great difficulty finding a connection between the scripture and your claims (e.g. multiverses).

 

[Jjmcubbin]

The Bible wasn't written to agree with your every thought. All the drugs you list are temporary fixes since we all leave this Earth at some point, no matter how many drugs we take. The ONLY permanent fix for immortality is with Jesus. I'm sorry if you wish to remain with the theology of ancient men, who lived thousands of years before formal education or Science. I moved on to God's Truth long ago since it AGREES in every way with every discovery of Science and History....and NO one can refute that Truth. Amen?

All I read is that the Bible doesn't have any mention of these scientific discoveries which disproves your claim, followed by a lot of beating about the bush by talking like a horoscope/fortune teller.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

Sure. The first firmament, which God called Heaven, was made the 2nd Day. Gen 1:8 Other Heavens were made by Lord God on the next Day, (Big Bang) the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 Most scholars study the ancient views of the Hebrews but God tells us that ONLY the people living in the last days, have the "increased knowledge" to understand Scripture. Daniel 12:4

But, 'firmament' means a vast solid dome over the sky. It doesn't mean universe. Have a look at Gen 1:6, for an example.

Gen 2:4 talks about 'heavens', but how do you get from there to a multiverse?

So what's happening is that you are very liberally interpreting the Bible to fit modern science. Or in this case: conjecture.

Daniel 12:4 talks about sealing up a book and that many will search for the knowledge within it. (Though, the different translations for this vary a lot.) It doesn't seem to say that any new knowledge will be magically granted to people in the end days, apart from what is in Daniel's book. So, what is that?

It's the Truth since most people here have NO idea what Genesis actually says. They are "willingly ignorant" of God's Truth, which means they are uneducated about His Truth by their own free choice. Amen?

But, reading The Bible certainly doesn't make me think that it's full of truth. The more of it I read, the more it looks like any other holy book

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't fit the facts of the flood story. For instance, you don't seem to know that Adam's world sank on the SAME Day the Ark rested on the mountains of Ararat. As Adam's world was being totally destroyed, the Ark was being released into the Lake. The Scoffers/know it alls of the last days will NOT believe this. ll Peter 3:3-7 Thanks for fulfilling God's Truth.

You know, a lot of things scoffers scoff at actually deserve the scoffing.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Is that why you fail so miserably when you TRY to refute me? . . . . .

He doesn't fail. You are merely unable to properly judge such things.

 

[Herman Hedning]

You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't fit the facts of the flood story. For instance, you don't seem to know that Adam's world sank on the SAME Day the Ark rested on the mountains of Ararat. As Adam's world was being totally destroyed, the Ark was being released into the Lake. The Scoffers/know it alls of the last days will NOT believe this. ll Peter 3:3-7 Thanks for fulfilling God's Truth.

No, I do not know all that nonsense - maybe because it isn't true? You're welcome.

 

[Brightmoon]

actually turtles are now consider to be diapsids:

Turtle - Wikipedia

"This placement within the diapsids suggests that the turtle lineage lost diapsid skull characteristics as it now possesses an anapsid-like skull."

Ok! So turtles evolved and the diapsid skull was the ancestral condition. There’s that E word again! And thanks for the update by the way

 

[Brightmoon]

true. but that was "brightmoon" argument in the first place: "In vertebrates without limbs we see the same genes for making limbs". means that those creatures lost their limbs. so as we both see now its not true since those genes are multifunctional.

Even snakes have this but they are shut off. Organisms can have the gene but if the gene is shut off it’s as if they don’t have the gene . Now occasionally humans have tails because the genes involved in primate tail retention are turned back on . Apes (including humans) normally lose their tails during fetal development.

 

[hecd2]

It's more complicated than that. Some genes are properly lost, such as the primate gene for vitamin C, while some are repurposed. There is a difference, and a need to explain why non-functional genes are still there.

See this study which indicates that there are at least 76 cases in the human genome like the GULO gene, where the gene has suffered loss of function in the human lineage, and there is no functional paralogue in the human genome. Most of the other thousands of pseudogenes have functional paralogues (but of course you can still use them to trace ancestry using their accumulated mutations).

Also, the sythesis of vitamin C requires a cascade of different enzymes, with the last in the process being GULO. The other genes in the cascade have multiple functions, are under purifying selection and remain functional in primates.

 

[xianghua]

Ok! So turtles evolved and the diapsid skull was the ancestral condition.

no. since we have no evidence for such evolution. its actually a problem for biologists who try to clasify them. its actually a fail prediciton of evolution theory.

 

[Aman777]

I'm not confused - as I said, the evidence in 'the dust of the Earth', as you put it (and multiple other independent lines of evidence), tells us that we are members of the superfamily Hominoidea (Apes), and so share a common ancestor with other extant apes.

Correction: Today's consensus of scientists is wrong since they have confused prehistoric people (whose origin was in water) with Humans (descendants of Adam). Humans were made on another Earth long BEFORE Apes. In fact, Humans were made BEFORE the Big Bang of our cosmos. Gen 2:4-7 Apes appeared only some 10 Million years ago on our Earth.

You can invent any magical origin myths you like in order to deny it, but the evidence is beyond all reasonable doubt.

False, since Humans also contain elements forged in the FIRST Stars of our world, inside our bodies. Can you explain HOW this is possible since we have the superior intelligence which only God and Humans have Gen 3:22 AND the DNA of Mt. Eve?

 

[xianghua]

Even snakes have this but they are shut off. Organisms can have the gene but if the gene is shut off it’s as if they don’t have the gene . Now occasionally humans have tails because the genes involved in primate tail retention are turned back on . Apes (including humans) normally lose their tails during fetal development.

human doesnt have genes for tail. its again the multifunctionality problem.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Correction: Today's consensus of scientists is wrong since they have confused prehistoric people (whose origin was in water) with Humans (descendants of Adam).

Wow! I'd better alert the Royal Society!

False, since Humans also contain elements forged in the FIRST Stars of our world, inside our bodies. Can you explain HOW this is possible since we have the superior intelligence which only God and Humans have Gen 3:22 AND the DNA of Mt. Eve?

It's true that humans contain elements forged in the earliest stars in the universe, but the question is a non-sequitur, since that has nothing to do with our intelligence or magical origin myths involving inexplicable, immaterial entities.

 

[Aman777]

I do actually check the scriptures when people quote them to me. In your case, I have great difficulty finding a connection between the scripture and your claims (e.g. multiverses).

Here are the verses:

Gen 1:6 ¶ And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

God made the first firmament (Adam's world) on the 2nd Day in water.

On the next Day/Age (some 4.5 Billion years later in man's time) Lord God (YHWH/Jesus) made some other Heavens:

Gen 2:4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

See? God the Trinity made one Heaven and Lord God/Jesus made other Heavens (Plural) on the SAME Day Adam's Earth was made, the 3rd Day. Gen 1:10 One plus two other Heavens equals at least 3 Heavens (Multiverse) made. The first is "THEIR" Trinity kind and the others are "HIS" kind or the kind made by Jesus. Don't you know the difference between His and Their kinds?

 

[Aman777]

All I read is that the Bible doesn't have any mention of these scientific discoveries which disproves your claim, followed by a lot of beating about the bush by talking like a horoscope/fortune teller.

Neither does the Bible mention cars. Do that disprove their existence? Of course not. Ask any child.

 

[Aman777]

But, 'firmament' means a vast solid dome over the sky. It doesn't mean universe. Have a look at Gen 1:6, for an example.

Amen. Adam's small world was surrounded by a solid firmament which protected it from the water into which it was placed, showing that Adam's world was totally self-sufficient. Adam's entire Universe was only miles in diameter.

Gen 2:4 talks about 'heavens', but how do you get from there to a multiverse?

Add the first Heaven made the 2nd Day to the other HeavenS, made on the 3rd Day, and you have a Multiverse.

Daniel 12:4 talks about sealing up a book and that many will search for the knowledge within it. (Though, the different translations for this vary a lot.) It doesn't seem to say that any new knowledge will be magically granted to people in the end days, apart from what is in Daniel's book. So, what is that?

Dan 12:4 ¶ But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The increased knowledge of our time unlocks Genesis by showing that Genesis 1 AGREES with the scientific discoveries made in our time. ONLY God knew this more than 3k years ago. It's proof of God, but NO verse stands alone. Here's another:

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon ALL flesh:

All flesh includes atheists agnostics and all other unbelievers who will NOT believe God's Spirit of Truth, which will be confirmed by Science, in the last days.

But, reading The Bible certainly doesn't make me think that it's full of truth. The more of it I read, the more it looks like any other holy book

Of course it looks like foolishness to you because you haven't been born Spiritually:

1Co 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

 

[Aman777]

You know, a lot of things scoffers scoff at actually deserve the scoffing.

What you don't understand is that Adam's firmament will soon be discovered in Lake Van, Turkey where it is covered with 11k years of volcanic sediment. When this is found the Scoffers of the last days will be without excuse.

 

[Aman777]

He doesn't fail. You are merely unable to properly judge such things.

False, since I'm a converted Evolutionist who used to parrot the misconceptions of today's Science.

 

[Aman777]

No, I do not know all that nonsense - maybe because it isn't true? You're welcome.

Then show us Scripturally, scientifically or historically WHY it isn't true. I don't think you can. I suspect you will run away. Fool me.