Did God write Genesis?

[doubtingmerle]

Read the story of Abraham carefully. Gd made a promise to Abraham regarding his son BEFORE the incident in question. Therefore, Isaac's life was never in danger. Abraham was tested numerous times for obedience was the essence of his relationship with Gd. I believe that Abraham saw it for what it was-just another test and he new his Gd well enough to be sure of the outcome.

So attempted murder is OK, if you expect that somehow the victim will survive the attempt? I disagree.

The story of Genesis 22 is just one reason I do not think that the creator of the universe wrote Genesis. Genesis says the earth was created in 6 days. The creator would have known it took billions of years. Genesis 1 and 2 don't agree on the order in which things were created. The creator of the universe would not have made a mistake like that. Genesis says the whole earth was flooded, which the creator should have known never happened. Genesis 11 says God was angry that the people were working together to build a tower, so suddenly as adults, they all started speaking different languages. The creator of the universe would not have attributed such actions to himself, in my view. And so on.

So if you can prove that it was OK for Abraham to set out to murder his son, you still have not proven the God of the universe wrote Genesis, which is the topic of this thread.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Did he accomplish his task?

If not, what went wrong?

What went wrong is that Abraham set out to kill his son. That is wrong.

Do you think it is right to set out to kill your son? If you hear what Abraham heard, will you set out to kill your son?

 

[AV1611VET]

What went wrong is that Abraham set out to kill his son. That is wrong.

I think we're in a loop here.

Looks like your logic has gone 404.

Do you think it is right to set out to kill your son?

It depends on the context.

If you hear what Abraham heard, will you set out to kill your son?

No.

 

[doubtingmerle]

It depends on the context.

Get with the program, please. The context is Genesis 22. If another man is put in the situation Abraham was put in, would it be right for him to set out to kill his son?

No.

That simple answer settles this whole question. I had asked, "If you hear what Abraham heard, will you set out to kill your son?" You said "No". I too say "No".

But Abraham, according to this story, said "Yes". Both you and I know that it would have been better to say "No". That is the point. That is what went wrong.

 

[danny ski]

So attempted murder is OK, if you expect that somehow the victim will survive the attempt? I disagree.

The story of Genesis 22 is just one reason I do not think that the creator of the universe wrote Genesis. Genesis says the earth was created in 6 days. The creator would have known it took billions of years. Genesis 1 and 2 don't agree on the order in which things were created. The creator of the universe would not have made a mistake like that. Genesis says the whole earth was flooded, which the creator should have known never happened. Genesis 11 says God was angry that the people were working together to build a tower, so suddenly as adults, they all started speaking different languages. The creator of the universe would not have attributed such actions to himself, in my view. And so on.

So if you can prove that it was OK for Abraham to set out to murder his son, you still have not proven the God of the universe wrote Genesis, which is the topic of this thread.

I never set out to prove anything. All I'm saying is that the example of Abraham is a poor one. Especially when the story is examined closely.

 

[AV1611VET]

Get with the program, please. The context is Genesis 22. If another man is put in the situation Abraham was put in, would it be right for him to set out to kill his son?

Of course not.

Would it have been right for another man ... other than the high priest ... to enter the Holy of Holies once a year?

So God tells Abraham to offer up his son, and your attitude is what?

"Here! Let me offer mine!"

So you accuse Him of conspiracy to commit murder?

I don't think so, chief.

That simple answer settles this whole question. I had asked, "If you hear what Abraham heard, will you set out to kill your son?" You said "No". I too say "No".

Well, you're a smart cookie.

Now you understand dispensation theology, don't you?

But Abraham, according to this story, said "Yes".

Amen!

Abraham knew Who was talking ... you don't.

Both you and I know that it would have been better to say "No".

Well, that was a brief understanding of dispensation theology.

How soon we forget, eh?

And I had hopes for you!

That is the point. That is what went wrong.

You don't know the answer to your own question.

That's what you get for trying to substitute yourself in the place of a person in the Bible, without knowing context, dispensation, or anything else.

And they were the ignorant ones!?

I can see Abraham shaking his head at you right now going, "If he only knew."

 

[AV1611VET]

All I'm saying is that the example of Abraham is a poor one.

Anyone who puts himself in the place of a person in the Bible and espouses an extremely myopic excusatory rant against Almighty God is a "poor one."

 

[doubtingmerle]

Scholars have clues that the NT writers often reference texts that we don't currently have.
They have names for these various source documents that are not included in scripture.

Ah, so the God of the universe wrote Genesis in such a way that it seems to praise an attempted murder as a means of proving fidelity, but the God of the universe also knew about various source documents which clarify the story, but those documents are now lost, but the God of the universe saw that some other anonymous writer centuries later would use those source documents before they were lost to clarify the story, so all is good, no harm no foul? Therefore the God of the universe could have written Genesis?

I think the God of the universe would have been more competent.

 

[doubtingmerle]

So God tells Abraham to offer up his son, and your attitude is what?

"Here! Let me offer mine!"

That is absolutely and totally false.

I absolutely did not offer my son up to be murdered.

It would be wrong to murder my son.
It would be wrong to murder my son.
It would be wrong to murder my son.

Please do not pretend I said it would be right to murder my son. I said it would be wrong. You are lying when you say I approved of murdering my son. Please quit lying.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think the God of the universe would have been more competent.

Speaking of competent ... I'll ask again:

What went wrong?

And don't give me that "he was ordered to kill" junk again.

It's easy to sit in the comfort of one's home and project that comfort onto a scenario in the Bible to role play.

But it can make you go 404.

 

[AV1611VET]

That is absolutely and totally false.

I absolutely did not offer my son up to be murdered.

It would be wrong to murder my son.
It would be wrong to murder my son.
It would be wrong to murder my son.

Please do not pretend I said it would be right to murder my son. I said it would be wrong. You are lying when you say I approved of murdering my son. Please quit lying.

Wow ... excuse me.

I overlooked your self-righteous rebellion.

Shame on me.

So if you were Abraham, you would have what?

Told Him to take a hike?

 

[JackRT]

Is a "god" who asks us to do something evil a god that is worthy of our adoration or even our respect?

 

[AV1611VET]

Is a "god" who asks us to do something evil a god that is worthy of our adoration or even our respect?

No -- but scientists do it anyway -- albeit subconsciously.

 

[JackRT]

No -- but scientists do it anyway -- albeit subconsciously.

The topic is not about scientists.

 

[ChetSinger]

I was talking to someone who said it wasn't murder because Abraham was expecting his son to resurrect. I disagree. It is still murder.

Now to your question, nobody accused Abraham of killing Isaac. Abraham is being accused of setting out to kill his son. That is what is wrong.

I understand why you feel that way. But I feel compelled to insert the word "temporarily" because that's what Abraham believed, and what would've happened if God hadn't stayed Abraham's hand.

 

[JackRT]

Abraham believed in "resurrection"??? I don't think that to be either biblical or logical because that concept was still centuries in the future.

 

[AV1611VET]

Abraham believed in "resurrection"??? I don't think that to be either biblical or logical because that concept was still centuries in the future.

What's this then?

Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

 

[doubtingmerle]

Wow ... excuse me.

OK I excuse you for lying about me and saying that I was offering up my son to be murdered. For the record I am not offering up my son to be murdered.

Please do not ever lie about people again and claim they want their son to be murdered. Please never do that again.

 

[doubtingmerle]

I understand why you feel that way. But I feel compelled to insert the word "temporarily" because that's what Abraham believed, and what would've happened if God hadn't stayed Abraham's hand.

Ah, Abraham was temporarily killing his son. And you have no problem with that? If a man truly thinks his son will rise again, does he then have permission to kill that son? I would say no. Murder is wrong, even when you expect the murdered person to resurrect.

 

[JackRT]

What's this then?

Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

The wording of this passage is so obscure that even after consulting several other translations I am quite unsure of its meaning.