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Did God predestine the Fall?

Not David

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I did not quote Calvin and this is not about him. But the dodge is noted.

Why won’t you address the Scriptures I provided? They were in context and a direct Apostolic teaching.
All ideas on predestination we're developed from Calvin, even the TULIP.
 
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mark kennedy

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So was Jesus human will predestined?
Therefore, since we have such a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. (Hebrews 4:14-16)
Fully human, yet without sin.
 
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Not David

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I did not quote Calvin and this is not about him. But the dodge is noted.

Why won’t you address the Scriptures I provided? They were in context and a direct Apostolic teaching.
Because the Bible does not teach Calvinism and you put your own ideas to the Bible.
 
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Not David

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So God’s plan is to set things up and correct what goes wrong?
Yes, that is why Jesus was the plan. Humans were created with the chance of being immortal and in communion with God, your problem is that you think humans no choosing God makes him weak, when in reality forcing someone to love him makes him weak.
 
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mark kennedy

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Because the Bible does not teach Calvinism and you put your own ideas to the Bible.
No, Calvinism is the Reformation perspective on the gospel put in a systematic theology. If you don't bother with the Scriptures, as you did there, of course you can make any claim that occurs to you.
 
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Hammster

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Hammster

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Yes, that is why Jesus was the plan. Humans were created with the chance of being immortal and in communion with God, your problem is that you think humans no choosing God makes him weak, when in reality forcing someone to love him makes him weak.
Do you believe God changes hearts?
 
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Not David

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Does 1 peter 1: 18-20 say redemption was predestined. If so isn't fall predestined?
Not really, redemption could be predestined because God knew what would happen not that he wanted the Fall to happen.
 
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Hammster

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Not really, redemption could be predestined because God knew what would happen not that he wanted the Fall to happen.
How did He know? Did He ordain it, or did He learn?
 
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dad

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No all of the above hu-mans operated within the bondage of the will.
The truth shall set you free. Maybe the man and woman were believers. Maybe they prayed. Maybe the second time was an improvement and very fine with God.
 
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dad

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Because Paul makes it clear God’s plan before He created mankind was to redeem mankind through Jesus Christ..

His plan included us choosing of course. Asking. Repenting...etc, not some magic decree for certain privileged folks...while other less fortunates got to burn forever in hell by the wave of the same wand.
 
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dad

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How did He know? Did He ordain it, or did He learn?
Looking at the meaning of ordain from the Greek I see this,

to put in order, to station
  1. to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint
    1. to assign (appoint) a thing to one
  2. New Testament Greek - StudyLight.org
So if we say Adam was ordained I guess it means a place in certain order was assigned. So, if he was made partially to be able to choose to obey or not, that is the order. As opposed to some pre determined free will overriding scheme.
 
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Hammster

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His plan included us choosing of course. Asking. Repenting...etc, not some magic decree for certain privileged folks...while other less fortunates got to burn forever in hell by the wave of the same wand.
Less fortunate? You act like hell is unjust.
 
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Hammster

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Looking at the meaning of ordain from the Greek I see this,

to put in order, to station
  1. to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint
    1. to assign (appoint) a thing to one
  2. New Testament Greek - StudyLight.org
So if we say Adam was ordained I guess it means a place in certain order was assigned. So, if he was made partially to be able to choose to obey or not, that is the order. As opposed to some pre determined free will overriding scheme.
Another non-answer disguised as an answer. :)
 
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Hammster

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It would be if we were cast there regardless of any choice in life. Why, did it seem like some rewards destination to you?
Everyone in hell is there because of sin. Has it ever occurred to you that God never has to save anyone?
 
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Hawkins

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For those who believe in God predestine events, was the Fall one of them?

This one is not about predestination. God doesn't need to defile logic. The story of Eden shows that freewill will inevitably lead to division. It has explained why planet earth is required for humans with freewill to divide. It has explained why God didn't move humans directly to the final Heaven. Instead we are allowed to divide on earth and only some of us will be brought to the final Heaven.

Angels on the other hand are born to be the servants of God. They thus already know God from the beginning of their creation. They however possess freewill as well, may not to the full extent as given to humans though. Their division thus will happen inside the current Heaven, a dwelling place of God.

As for the fall itself, it doesn't need to be predestined. This will occur naturally especially under the influence of the angelic entities such as Satan.
 
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bbbbbbb

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You see, how is it logical that God judges people who do what God wants them to do?
Also God intervening would had done nothing since both Adam and Eve already doubted God in their hearts.

Who created Adam and Eve? Did He create flawed creatures? If not, how did the flaws find their way into them?
 
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