That's what you got out of that post, wow.
I can see carefully prepared expositions don't appeal to you much. Cursed till the atonement Christ made at the cross.
Equally as cursed
AFTER THE CROSS ALSO, UNLESS THEY CHOOSE TO ACCEPT THE GIFT MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CROSS!
If people do not repent and ask for the salvation Jesus offers, they
remain under the curse.
No, we receive the ingrafted word described as incorruptible seed. That is a work of God, now I never disputed that there is a time of decision or some semblance of surrender, but everything is a work of God in salvation.
False, we have a part to play in salvation, we must choose Jesus. His work was to die for us, we must accept it..or not.
Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and his sacrifice for sin is the essence of justification by grace through faith, no self respecting Calvinist would deny this.
The issue is whether we choose to try and believe and ask and accept, or whether it is all arranged in advance and we are but robots.
Jesus is the way, the truth and the light, no one comes to the Father except by him. You want to emphasize how we must choose but you seem to forget what we are choosing isn't something apart from a work of God through special revelation, otherwise we will never make the insight into who Jesus Christ is or what he has done for us.
If not for the work of the cross we would not be ABLE to choose life and salvation. Now..we can, because of His work. His work was not forcing us to choose Him. (or reject Him and go to hell)
You must believe that Jesus is the Christ, Son of the Living God, receive the Holy Spirit of promise which is where the washing, renewing and regeneration of the Holy Spirit comes from. Repentance itself is a work of God since the seat of moral reflection is poisoned by sin and we are weak in our natural selves.
We have a choice to repent or not! If we are sincere and want to believe and repent, He helps us..NOT predestinates us and forces us and makes the choice for us. What was pre destined was that He died for us and made the way.
Read the Pauline epistles much?
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. (Eph. 1:3-6)
In simple terms and language I would express this as
'He chose to die for us, so we could become the group of believers we are' 'He chose that there would be Christians as a result of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God'.
NOT..'He choose individually for every person to be saved or damned beforehand'!
Sure, at the time of decision child like faith is sufficient, I don't know a single Calvinist that would deny that. Faith is a work of God in our lives, unless God makes the revelation to you you can do nothing. What is more repentance isn't as much an act of the will as a change of attitude that happens at the seat of moral reflection which is itself an act of God. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith, another point of doctrine you have completely missed.
Wrong. The change can and does only come after the choice. We get an attitude adjustment...a new heart in us. Born again.
Oh, you are having a problem with the definition, why didn't you say so:
He pre destined that HE would die for us and we could choose Him, who is salvation. He did not pre determine our choices.
For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before G4309 to be done. (Act 4:28),
That was not talking about you or me choosing to ask Jesus for salvation. Sorry.
Acts 4:
26 The
kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
27 For of a truth
against thy holy child
Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both
Herod, and Pontius
Pilate, with the
Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 For
to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
In other words He plans that when the heathen rage against Jesus, that they be totally defeated. That does not mean He forced them to reject Jesus or accept Him. It means if people and kings do reject and fight Jesus, they are doomed to be clobbered.
For whom he did foreknow, he G4309 also did predestinate G4309 to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Rom 8:29)
The pre determined thing was that those who chose Jesus would then be worked on and changed within. NOT that He picked who could accept Jesus!
Moreover whom he did predestinate, G4309 them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:30)
Right, so those who choose Jesus are justified and will be glorified etc etc.
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained G4309 before the world unto our glory: (1Co 2:7)
The plan of salvation was a mystery. Not that He chose FOR us and that was the mystery!!
Having predestinated G4309 us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, (Eph 1:5)
Yes what was pre destined was that we could be adopted as His children BY choosing to do so! NOT that He made billions of people orphans and they had no choice.
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated G4309 according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: (Eph 1:11)
It is destiny that anyone can have the inheritance who accepts Jesus. Not that their choice to do so was pre programmed!!
That's the 7 times the word is used in 6 verses, along with the direct quotes where it is used.
Great, so hopefully you see the light now.
It pales in insignificance to what God has done for us, is what this Calvinist would tell you in no uncertain terms.
This is going in circles, predictable. There is nothing in those verses about being predestined to hell, that's an absurd strawman argument, no one is making. A child of perdition can be doomed to the lake of fire but it's not like God chose that for them. I wouldn't have so much a problem with arguments against predestination if it actually dealt with the formal doctrine, I haven't seen that much at all.
This is actually what people who know Jesus and the bible reject...that we have no real choice to accept or reject Jesus of oue own will. We could only be doomed after we choose to reject Jesus. We are not born saved or doomed.
God predestined that all who would be holy and blameless, adopted as sons and indwelled with the Holy Spirit of promise would do so in Christ. Your arguing against pagan fate, which has never had anything to do with Calvinist predestination.
Sorry but the messages we are getting from other Calvies here do not seem to agree with your assessment. I am arguing against ANY fate regarding a real ability to choose Jesus in this life.The pre determined bits come after people choose. We might say the 2 highways were build in advance and where they lead/go. What was NOT pre determined was our choice to take one or the other!
What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Certainly not! For He says to Moses: “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then, it does not depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. (Romans 9:14-16)
Correct, we all can have mercy for the asking/choosing by Christ.
'It does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God mercy'.
Wrong. If we desire to know Jesus and repent and ask for salvation, then we can do so, because He made the way possible. It is not our works that save us. It is asking/choosing to avail ourselves of Jesus, and His work. His work was not stuffed down man's throats.
THAT is the gospel.