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Did God Make Egyptians Sick?

Discussion in 'Spirit-Filled / Charismatic' started by LinkH, Sep 10, 2016.

  1. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

    United States
    Calvary Chapel

    Maybe. Just because something is labeled as a degree doesn't mean it's worth much. Look at all the degrees handed out in areas like evolutionary biology, and similar fields. They think they have a degree in a science, but it's really a mythology. Not worth the paper they are printed on.

    Your argument is just another version of the argument, "If God is good, why do all these other bad things happen to people?"

    There's a double standard when it comes to the actions between man and God. Please allow me to demonstrate. Let's take my sharing of 2 Samuel 24:11-15. Here it is again...

    And when David arose in the morning, the word of the Lord came to the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying, “Go and say to David, ‘Thus says the Lord, Three things I offer you. Choose one of them, that I may do it to you.’” So Gad came to David and told him, and said to him, “Shall three years of famine come to you in your land? Or will you flee three months before your foes while they pursue you? Or shall there be three days' pestilence in your land? Now consider, and decide what answer I shall return to him who sent me.” Then David said to Gad, “I am in great distress. Let us fall into the hand of the Lord, for his mercy is great; but let me not fall into the hand of man.”

    So the Lord sent a pestilence on Israel from the morning until the appointed time. And there died of the people from Dan to Beersheba 70,000 men.

    I'm going to start with an assumption, God is just. Feel free to debate that if you wish, of course. Now let's just look at this passage.

    Scenario 1: God tell David not to do something, but David does it anyway. God punished the act by killing 70,000 men who were not involved in the act itself. Do we call God just? Yes. Of course He is, because we know life is His to prolong or to take away as He sees fit.

    Scenario 2: King Bob tells David to do something, but David does it anyway. Bob punishes the act by killing 70,000 men who were not involved in the act itself. Do we call Bob just? No, we do not. We call Him a genocidal maniac and hope there's an especially hot spot in hell awaiting his arrival.​

    This is why your question, and your presumption to equate acts of God to the acts of man, is a faulty premise. Such as, "It wouldn't be right for me to make people sick, therefore it isn't right for God to do the same." That's one heck of an assumption, dragging the Creator down to the level of creation in order to pass judgment on His actions, as if you had that kind of authority.

    Then you follow up with an equally faulty question of "Well then why pray to be healed? If it is Gods will for you to be sick, why would you pray for something against His will?" I never made the claim it's against His will to heal. My claim is that He can both make sick and make well, both are within His will. But I do understand why you asked, as it's just another assumption that has to be made when this faulty premise is carried out to a conclusion.
  2. CGL1023

    CGL1023 citizen of heaven

    Word of Faith
    http://www.vindicatinggod.org/articles/Robert Young Book.pdf

    This is one person's attempt to explain the situation. It is the best attempt I have seen to reconcile God, seeming to afflict, on the one hand and God being boldly declared to be the Lord that heals.

    What seems to happen is that translation difficulties with Hebrew for certain OT passages leave the impression that the God brings disease and at the same time is called the Lord that heals. I am satisfied with that because any other explanation doesn't make much sense if, as I believe, God brings no affliction and that God has given man dominion over the earth.

    I am personally disappointed in that today's Bibles can mislead or leave the wrong impression about God.
    I don't do translation at all so I have brought this discussion as far as I am able to bring it and will leave it to the experts.
  3. LinkH

    LinkH Regular Member


    It would have to be more than the occasional translation of the Hebrew word. If translations are the issue, then the translators would have had to have added narrative. Man's dominion over the earth doesn't do away with the role God has as the owner of the earth.

    Let's suppose you owned a small business and hired someone to manage it for you. You could still go onto the premises, check the books, inspect your business, make decisions, and tell the manager what to do. God did not give up His power or ownership of the earth to man or the Devil. I've heard some WOF teachings that go way beyond what the Bible teaches on this subject and contradict other scriptures.

    God actually banished Adam from Eden. The Bible doesn't say that Adam banished himself through His own actions. The Bible says the LORD put a mark on Cain. It doesn't say he put a mark on himself. There are also those plagues of Egypt. How can we say that God wasn't behind them? When an angel struck Herod for accepting the praise of those who said his voice was the voice of a god and not of a man, why should we assume that this was a rogue angel? Paul was blinded when the Lord appeared to him. Who blinded Paul? Who blinded Elymas? Why did Ananias and Saphira die? How did Uzzah die?

    The Bible is a lot more important than this philosophy that God doesn't do things humans find unpleasant or that cause suffering.

    The idea that if God heals, He can't make someone sick if He justly chooses to do so is a philosophy. it is human reasoning. Go does not do everything directly. He has some things done through mediators. The Bible indicates that He put sicknesses on the Egyptians. We see examples of this with the plagues in the account in Exodus. Who in their right mind could read the book of Exodus and conclude that God had nothing to do with putting the plagues on Egypt? And if someone has the idea in their head that God only does what people consider 'good' and can't accept what the Bible teaches, He needs to bring His thoughts captive and let go of the bad teaching.

    I grew up Pentecostal, believing in healing. But I also grew up reading the Bible, and I suspect most of the Pentecostal preachers I heard spent a lot of time in the word. Fortunately, i didn't spend a lot of time around preachers with the unbiblical philosophy that God never does anything people consider 'bad.' At least if they did, they didn't promote it. Maybe they just read the Bible and knew better. Some of the Charismatic preachers seem to get their sermons from a few hundred verses and what some other preacher said. Sorry, WOFers, but it seems like this is common in the WOF. I've known WOFers who dug into the Bible and preached a better rounded message, but you wouldn't know they were WOFers to hear them preach, even if they'd gone to a WOF Bible school.
  4. CGL1023

    CGL1023 citizen of heaven

    Word of Faith
    The Holy Spirit told me repent of my remarks about being unhappy with today's English bibles. Not to repent would mean I would be saying that God was not taking care of His Word, which would not be the case so I do repent of such thoughts and writings.
  5. KawaiiChristianGal

    KawaiiChristianGal Active Member

    Word of Faith
    Amen! A LOT of WoF in fact the majority of WoF I have met believe it was the devil that causes all those things, well I have to go by what the Word says and the Bible says God punishes the wicked - sadly I think some Christians give the devil too much power than what he really has. Duet. 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

    I am WoF mixed with Oneness, but even I know what the scriptures say... Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

    Yes the devil can make one sick, he can use his demons to possess and even oppress individuals but not everything comes from the devil, God can also punish the wicked... punishing the wicked does not make Him evil, it's His Holy and Righteous judgement.
  6. KawaiiChristianGal

    KawaiiChristianGal Active Member

    Word of Faith
    I am WoF and even I know God does things to the wicked, I do not deny that.