Is God interested in our health?

Guojing

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I don't live "under the law". I live a joyful life with my heavenly Father and Jesus.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

As I stated to you at the beginning, if you want God to heal you when you please him, you cannot reject the other side, that if you disobey God, sickness will come to you.

That is under the Law of Moses (Deuteronomy 7:15, Exodus 15:26)
 
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Gary K

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You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

As I stated to you at the beginning, if you want God to heal you when you please him, you cannot reject the other side, that if you disobey God, sickness will come to you.

That is under the Law of Moses (Deuteronomy 7:15, Exodus 15:26)
You are so wrong. Take a look at what is in the OT.

Exodus 15: 26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the Lord that healeth thee.

I follow the dietary laws. I'm a vegetarian who eats a lot of vegan food.

You're most likely the one who is ignoring all the dietary laws including those given to Gentiles in the NT. I have yet to meet a Sunday keeper who eats kosher meat. You know, abstain from blood.

How is your relationship with God? Do you know Him well?
 
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Guojing

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You are so wrong. Take a look at what is in the OT.

Exodus 15: 26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the Lord that healeth thee.

I follow the dietary laws. I'm a vegetarian who eats a lot of vegan food.

You're most likely the one who is ignoring all the dietary laws including those given to Gentiles in the NT. I have yet to meet a Sunday keeper who eats kosher meat. You know, abstain from blood.

How is your relationship with God? Do you know Him well?

But that is precisely my point, you want to put yourself under the Law.
 
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Gary K

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But that is precisely my point, you want to put yourself under the Law.
Nope. I've already told you what my Christian life is like. Do you have peace of mind? Are you overcoming the sins in your life? I am and I know exactly what it's like to be a slave to sin so I also know how much better my life is now than the decades I spent in slavery to sin.

I wish that for you too, but I fear your religion is all head knowledge like the other hyper dispensationalists I discussed spiritual issues with. I think it's really sad that you're just as satisfied as they are with their current spiritual condition..

You should really give yourself a chance to learn what the joyful, successful Christian life is really like. It's like a night and day difference.
 
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Gary K

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You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

As I stated to you at the beginning, if you want God to heal you when you please him, you cannot reject the other side, that if you disobey God, sickness will come to you.

That is under the Law of Moses (Deuteronomy 7:15, Exodus 15:26)
I have a question for you.

Dispensationalists say nothing from the OT and addressed to the Jews applies to them, right?

So why do they claim to be under the new covenant? It was first given to Jeremiah,a Jew, and made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Jeremiah 31: 31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

There is something very strange about this. Dispensationalists claim the 4th commandment doesn't apply to dispensationalists as it was given to the Jews and yet both covenants were given to them. Plus dispensationalists say the book of Hebrews is not applicable to them. So where do dispensationalists get the authority to do this as Jeremiah and Hebrews are the only two books of the Bible the new covenant is found?
 
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Guojing

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I have a question for you.

Dispensationalists say nothing from the OT and addressed to the Jews applies to them, right?

So why do they claim to be under the new covenant? It was first given to Jeremiah,a Jew, and made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Jeremiah 31: 31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

There is something very strange about this. Dispensationalists claim the 4th commandment doesn't apply to dispensationalists as it was given to the Jews and yet both covenants were given to them. Plus dispensationalists say the book of Hebrews is not applicable to them. So where do dispensationalists get the authority to do this as Jeremiah and Hebrews are the only two books of the Bible the new covenant is found?

I never claim I was under any New Covenant. You are correct, it was a future promise to the nation of Israel.
 
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Gary K

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I never claim I was under any New Covenant. You are correct, it was a future promise to the nation of Israel.
I'm curious. Why do you avoid any talk of a relationship with God? Jesus said knowing He and His Father is eternal life and promised He would give us His peace. Why is that irrelevant to you? It makes zero sense to me as He is our Savior. He is the one human being that knows exactly what salvation is all about. He has perfect knowledge of salvation.
 
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Guojing

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I'm curious. Why do you avoid any talk of a relationship with God? Jesus said knowing He and His Father is eternal life and promised He would give us His peace. Why is that irrelevant to you? It makes zero sense to me as He is our Savior. He is the one human being that knows exactly what salvation is all about. He has perfect knowledge of salvation.

Firstly, you have to accept what scripture literally says.

As you already stated, if the clear scripture you have stated more than once that the New Covenant will be made with the House of Israel and Judah, there is no need to insert yourself into those entities to force yourself into that Covenant.

Secondly, we are the Body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:27

God sees us in Christ.

Do you understand how much closer that is, than merely having a covenant with God?
 
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Gary K

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Firstly, you have to accept what scripture literally says.

As you already stated, if the clear scripture you have stated more than once that the New Covenant will be made with the House of Israel and Judah, there is no need to insert yourself into those entities to force yourself into that Covenant.

Secondly, we are the Body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:27

God sees us in Christ.

Do you understand how much closer that is, than merely having a covenant with God?
So to you having God's law written in your heart is a bad thing? Why? What we think and believe shapes how we behave. Righteousness and personally knowing God aren't desirable to you? They certainly are to me. To live and act with the righteousness of Jesus is to me the entire goal of my life. To me it is incomprehensible that a Christian would want nothing to do with that. That doesn't sound to me like someone who wants to be a follower of Christ.
 
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Guojing

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So to you having God's law written in your heart is a bad thing? Why? What we think and believe shapes how we behave. Righteousness and personally knowing God aren't desirable to you? They certainly are to me. To live and act with the righteousness of Jesus is to me the entire goal of my life. To me it is incomprehensible that a Christian would want nothing to do with that. That doesn't sound to me like someone who wants to be a follower of Christ.

Do you understand my first point?

God promised the nation of Israel something that is good, that is the New Covenant. (Hebrews 8:8-12)

God promised us another thing that is good, that is entering the Body of Christ.

I understand your flesh desire when you see Israel getting that good thing, that you are thinking "hey that looks good, I want to also enjoy that promise".

But so long as you agree with me that scripture made clear that it was only promised to the House of Israel and Judah, you cannot and should not try to claim some promise that God never gave to you, but gave to them.

That is theft. It does not matter whether one wants anything to do with that or not.

Its as wrong as you looking at Matthew 19:28 and thinking, "Hey I also want to sit on one of the 12 thrones that Jesus promised his 12 apostles, because that promise looks good"
 
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Gary K

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Do you understand my first point?

God promised the nation of Israel something that is good, that is the New Covenant. (Hebrews 8:8-12)

God promised us another thing that is good, that is entering the Body of Christ.

I understand your flesh desire when you see Israel getting that good thing, that you are thinking "hey that looks good, I want to also enjoy that promise".

But so long as you agree with me that scripture made clear that it was only promised to the House of Israel and Judah, you cannot and should not try to claim some promise that God never gave to you, but gave to them.

That is theft. It does not matter whether one wants anything to do with that or not.

Its as wrong as you looking at Matthew 19:28 and thinking, "Hey I also want to sit on one of the 12 thrones that Jesus promised his 12 apostles, because that promise looks good"
So overcoming the sins of the flesh is a bad thing? My flesh and the devil desire to have me not conquer sin?

I completely reject dispesationalism as it is the most dangerous belief system in existence and I've told you why repeatedly. I don't see any point in continuing this discussion any further as you just made my point for me. Thank you.
 
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Guojing

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So overcoming the sins of the flesh is a bad thing? My flesh and the devil desire to have me not conquer sin?

I completely reject dispesationalism as it is the most dangerous belief system in existence and I've told you why repeatedly. I don't see any point in continuing this discussion any further as you just made my point for me. Thank you.

Strange, you were the one who proudly brought up scripture that clearly says the New Covenant will be made with Israel.

Now, you are unhappy with me agreeing with your point that that scripture needs to be taken literally?

A belief system that interprets scripture literally, as far as possible, is "the most dangerous belief system in existence" to you?
 
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Gary K

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Strange, you were the one who proudly brought up scripture that clearly says the New Covenant will be made with Israel.

Now, you are unhappy with me agreeing with your point that that scripture needs to be taken literally?

A belief system that interprets scripture literally, as far as possible, is "the most dangerous belief system in existence" to you?
Yes. Why? Because dispensationalists misinterpret it. They say they have nothing to do with the HS. Well, they profess to believe Paul but yet deny the HS has anything to do with them.

Romans 8: 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,
19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

Ephesians 4: 29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Dispensationalists say they cannot commit the unpardonable sin because the HS isn't for them. That's plainly untrue just from this one text alone. Is there more than one Holy Spirit? Absolutely not.

1Thessalonians 4: 7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

I have to go I'll finish this post later.

To the finish.

2Thessalonians 2: 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 9: 13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Is there a Quadrinty?
 
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Guojing

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Yes. Why? Because dispensationalists misinterpret it. They say they have nothing to do with the HS. Well, they profess to believe Paul but yet deny the HS has anything to do with them.

Let's finish one topic at a time.

When you read Hebrews 8:8 and Jeremiah 31:31, do you believe what it says literally?

If you want to place yourself under the New Covenant, it means you consider yourself as belonging to the House of Israel and Judah as well.

Is that what you believe in?
 
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Gary K

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Let's finish one topic at a time.

When you read Hebrews 8:8 and Jeremiah 31:31, do you believe what it says literally?

If you want to place yourself under the New Covenant, it means you consider yourself as belonging to the House of Israel and Judah as well.
Is that what you believe in?
Yes. I have no desire to discuss this specific topic further because in my experience talking to about it just goes round and round in circles endlessly You will never convince me diapensationalism is true. I know my Bible far too well for that.
 
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Guojing

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Yes. I have no desire to discuss this specific topic further because in my experience talking to about it just goes round and round in circles endlessly You will never convince me diapensationalism is true. I know my Bible far too well for that.

Alright, so you think you belong to Israel.

When you encounter other people who do not think like you, why do you consider them as following a false belief?
 
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Gary K

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Alright, so you think you belong to Israel.

When you encounter other people who do not think like you, why do you consider them as following a false belief?
Because there can only be one truth. There can never be two truths that are in conflict. That's what the Pharisees had. Their laws conflict with the Bible.
 
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Guojing

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Because there can only be one truth. There can never be two truths that are in conflict. That's what the Pharisees had. Their laws conflict with the Bible.

I see, so you automatically regard what you are thinking as the truth. Alright then.
 
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daq

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Let's finish one topic at a time.

When you read Hebrews 8:8 and Jeremiah 31:31, do you believe what it says literally?

If you want to place yourself under the New Covenant, it means you consider yourself as belonging to the House of Israel and Judah as well.

Is that what you believe in?
Alright, so you think you belong to Israel.

When you encounter other people who do not think like you, why do you consider them as following a false belief?

Much of the entire Brit Hadashah is written so as to drive the disciple into the supernal and spiritual Way of Meshiah which he delivered to his Apostles. This is the real problem with hyper-dispensationalism and reading-understanding all things in the scripture as natural, outward, and physical in meaning. For the same reason the hyper-dispensationalist cannot see many prophecies that have actually already been fulfilled and erroneously place them in the distant unforeseen future.

Example:

Ezekiel 37:15-24 KJV
15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

There is really only one thing that keeps people from seeing that the above is fulfilled, and that is the rendering of the name David, which actually means Beloved, and the text may be read to say more correctly, even as a pun, "My servant, the Beloved", meaning the Meshiah, ("Son of David" also being one of his titles).

Paul agrees with this understanding and expounds it in the following passage.

Ephesians 2:11-22 KJV
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

This is the joining of the two sticks in Ezekiel 37, Yoseph-Ephraim, which is the house of Yisrael, and the house of Yhudah, for the ten northern tribes, (Yisrael), were scattered among the nations, and thus, the nations or gentiles who believe are counted as the house of Yisrael being drawn out of the nations. However this is not about physical land or physical things.

The olive tree of the Father is His own: He is the Planter and Tender of His beloved family tree, and He can graft as many branches into His tree as He so desires. Therefore neither is this "replacement theology", that phrase dispy's so often use against those believing these things from the scripture, although there is indeed a version of replacement theology that is practiced and is erroneous: for the gentiles are expected to be grafted in and to join Yisrael and Yhudah, not the other way around.
 
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Guojing

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Much of the entire Brit Hadashah is written so as to drive the disciple into the supernal and spiritual Way of Meshiah which he delivered to his Apostles. This is the real problem with hyper-dispensationalism and reading-understanding all things in the scripture as natural, outward, and physical in meaning. For the same reason the hyper-dispensationalist cannot see many prophecies that have actually already been fulfilled and erroneously place them in the distant unforeseen future.

Example:

Ezekiel 37:15-24 KJV
15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

There is really only one thing that keeps people from seeing that the above is fulfilled, and that is the rendering of the name David, which actually means Beloved, and the text may be read to say more correctly, even as a pun, "My servant, the Beloved", meaning the Meshiah, ("Son of David" also being one of his titles).

Paul agrees with this understanding and expounds it in the following passage.

Ephesians 2:11-22 KJV
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

This is the joining of the two sticks in Ezekiel 37, Yoseph-Ephraim, which is the house of Yisrael, and the house of Yhudah, for the ten northern tribes, (Yisrael), were scattered among the nations, and thus, the nations or gentiles who believe are counted as the house of Yisrael being drawn out of the nations. However this is not about physical land or physical things.

The olive tree of the Father is His own: He is the Planter and Tender of His beloved family tree, and He can graft as many branches into His tree as He so desires. Therefore neither is this "replacement theology", that phrase dispy's so often use against those believing these things from the scripture, although there is indeed a version of replacement theology that is practiced and is erroneous: for the gentiles are expected to be grafted in and to join Yisrael and Yhudah, not the other way around.

That Ephesians passage is about the body of Christ, not Israel

Israel.is currently blinded (Romans 11:25)
 
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