Again, green herb, (green, yerek), not the herb of the field.
I do not read Hebrew according to the Meshiah rejecting M/T.
Yet you brought up Chay and green herb.
What therefore is
Genesis 9:3 saying? It is teaching the difference between raw life, (chay), and living souls. Chay concerns even the most basic life forms, such as even plant life, and it appears therefore that we are being taught herein that fish are considered raw life and not living souls. This may also be understood by simple logic, reasoning, and love for our Creator: for the Almighty would not create one type of weaker living soul just to become food for the greater sea creatures which are indeed called living souls, (nephesh hachayah,
Gen 1:21).
Here is the word for beast or the Hebrew chay in Gen 9 from the LXX. Take note it does not even imply raw life form as you say.
From the BDAG - θηρίον, ου, τό (Hom.+), in form, but not always in mng., dim. of θήρ.
any living creature, excluding humans, animal, beast
of real animals
α. gener. Hb 12:20. τὰ θ. τῆς γῆς (Gen 1:24, 25, 30) B 6:12; cp. vs. 18; GJs 3:2; τῆς θαλάσσης B 4:5 (Da 7:7). W. adj. θ. ἄγρια (X., An. 1, 2, 7; TestSol 10, 3 C) 1 Cl 56:11 (Job 5:22).
β. of animals of a particular kind.
א. quadrupeds as such (Ps.-Clemens, Hom. 3, 36): Js 3:7; φυλακὴ παντὸς θηρίου ἀκαθάρτου cage for every kind of unclean animal Rv 18:2.
ב. wild animals (Diod. S. 1, 87, 3; Jos., Bell. 3, 385, Ant. 9, 197) Mk 1:13 (FSpitta, ZNW 5, 1904, 323ff; 8, 1907, 66ff.—Himerius, Or. 39 [=Or. 5], 5: Orpheus in the Thracian mountains, where he has no one to listen to him θηρίων τὴν ἐκκλησίαν ἐργάζεται=forms a community for himself from the wild animals); so perh. Ac 11:6 (s. Hs 9, 26, 1 below).—DDD 1689–92.
ג. w. emphasis on aspect of danger: gener. (Antig. Car. 29 [wolf ]; Diod. S. 17, 92, 2 and 3 [lion]; Maximus Tyr. 20, 2b; Jos., Ant. 2, 35) Rv 6:8 (cp. Hdt. 6, 44, 3); IEph 7:1.
ד. a reptile snake (Diod. S. 20, 42, 2, alternating with ὄφις; Polyaenus 2, 3, 15 with ἔχις; Aretaeus 159, 8 τὸ διὰ τ. θηρίων φάρμακον; 163, 2; Just., A I, 60, 2; Galen IV 779 K.; θήρ=snake: Simias [III B.C.], Coll. Alex. fgm. 26, 17 p. 119) Ac 28:4f; Hs 9, 26, 7b; so also ibid. 7a and prob. 9, 26, 1 w. ἑρπετά (cp. Ac 11:6; Jos., Ant. 17, 117). Cp. PtK 2 p. 14, 18.
γ. oft. of wild animals in a controlled setting, namely of fighting w. animals in an arena (Diod. S. 36, 10, 3; Artem. 2, 54; Jos., Bell. 7, 38) IRo 4:1f; 5:2f; ISm 4:2a, b; MPol 3:1; 4; 11:1f; Dg 7:7; Hv 3, 2, 1; AcPl Ha 1, 28; 2, 4; 5, 5 and 9. εἰς τὰ θηρία κατακρίνεσθαι be condemned to fight w. wild animals MPol 2:4. κατέκρινεν αὐτὸν εἰς θηρία AcPl Ha 1, 29.
of animal-like beings of a transcendent kind (Paus. 1, 24, 6 griffins; 2, 37, 4 the hydra; cp. Da 7:3ff) B 4:5 (Da 7:7). Of a monstrous dragon (schol. on Apollon. Rhod. 4, 156–66a the guardian of the golden fleece; Damascius, Vi. Isid. 140) Hv 4, 1, 6; 4, 1, 8; 4, 1, 10; 4, 2, 1; 4, 2, 3ff; 4, 3, 1 and 7 (on the monster in H, s. Joly p. 113 n. 2). The ‘beasts’ or ‘animals’ of 11:7; 13:1ff, 11f, 14f, 17f; 14:9, 11; 15:2; 16:2, 10, 13; 17:3, 7f, 11ff, 16f; 19:19f; 20:4, 10.—Lit. s.v. δράκων. BMurmelstein, StKr 101, 1929, 447–57; RSchütz, D. Offb. d. Joh. u. Kaiser Domitian ’33; PMinear, JBL 72, ’53, 93–101.
wicked person, someone w. a ‘bestial’ nature, beast, monster, fig. ext. of mng. 1 (Aristoph., Equ. 273, Plutus 439, Nub. 184; Appian [s. θηριομαχέω, end]; Alciphron 2, 17, 4 al.; Achilles Tat. 6, 12, 3; Jos., Bell. 1, 624; 627, Ant. 17, 117 and 120; cp. Vett. Val. 78, 9; BGU 1024 IV, 5ff) Tit 1:12 (Da- mascius, Vi. Isid. 301 the wife of Isid. is called a κακὸν θ.). θ. ἀνθρωπόμορφα beasts in human form (Philo, Ab. 33) ISm 4:1.—B. 137. DELG s.v. θήρ. DDD 1689–92. M-M. EDNT. TW.
In regard to Gen 1:21 nephesh is not a Greek word as you know. So why bring it up to prove a point? I am honestly perplexed that you think this relevant considering you don't read the Masoretic text or Leningrad Codex.
So with that let's look at the LXX. First off the word for fish used in chapter 9 is used in chapter 1. It is in the general sense in respect to all sea creatures there.
Second, Ketos translated whale below would also be the various fish specious that are and were then considered Mega. Which in relation to fish weren't food for any considering they have been shown to be as big as whales and where and are at the top of the food chain and eat whales.
And lastly the Greek word psuche translated lives and life below is used in respect to all that God created not just the bigger fish mentioned.
Gen 1:20 (ABP) And God said, Let [3 bring forth 1 the 2 waters] reptiles [2 lives 1 of living], and [2 winged creatures 1 flying] upon the earth below the firmament of the heaven! And it was so.
Gen 1:21 And God made the [2 whales 1 great], and every life of living creatures of reptiles which [3 brought forth 1 the 2 waters] according to their types; and every [2 winged creature 1 feathered] according to type. And God beheld that it was good.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man according to [2 image 1 our], and according to likeness! And let them control the fishes of the sea, and the winged creatures of the heaven, and the cattle, and all the earth, and all the reptiles of the ones crawling upon the earth!
I do not read Hebrew according to the Meshiah rejecting M/T. Immediately there is problem with the above, and also most English translations: for Elohim did not give the green herb to mankind: the green herb is given for food to the beasts of the earth, the flyers of the heavens, and every roamer or creeper upon the earth.
LXX then? That does not help your case either. χόρτου is the grass mentioned in Gen 9:3 that you say God had not given to mankind to eat. But the fact is as shown below in Gen 1:29 and 3:18 that it was. Please note also that the LXX in Gen 9:3 lacks the word for green. Instead it uses the word for edible vegetation. Which would be what God have given them to eat.
Gen 1:29 (ABP) And God said, Behold, I have given to you every grass fit for sowing a sowing of seed which is upon the earth, and every tree which has in itself a fruit seed fit for sowing; to you it will be for food,
Gen 1:30 and to all the wild beasts of the earth, and to all the winged creatures of the heaven, and to every reptile crawling upon the earth, which has in itself breath of life, even every [2 grass 1 green] for food. And it was so.
Gen 2:5 and every green field before it existed upon the earth, and all grass of the field before its rising, [4 did not 1 for 5 rain 2 the LORD 3 God] upon the earth, and [3 man 2 no 1 there was] to work it.
Gen 3:18 Thorn-bushes and thistles will rise to you, and you will eat the grass of the field.
Gen 9:3 And every reptile which is living shall be to you for food; as [3 vegetation 4 of grass 1 I have given 5 to you 2 all].
Vegetation as defined by the BDAG-
λάχανον, ου, τό (Cratinus et al.; pap, LXX; Jos., Bell. 5, 437; Just., D. 20, 3) edible garden herb, vegetable
Mt 13:32;
Mk 4:32. πᾶν λάχανον every kind of garden herb
Lk 11:42.—Of one who is a vegetarian for religious reasons ὁ ἀσθενῶν λάχανα ἐσθίει the one who is weak (in convictions) eats (only) vege- tables
Ro 14:2 (cp. the Neopythagoreans in Diog. L. 8, 38 ἐσθίουσι λάχανα; Philostrat., Vi. Apoll. 1, 8 λάχανα ἐσιτεῖτο.— JHaussleiter, D. Vegetarismus in der Antike ’35; DTsekourakis, ANRW II/36/1, ’87, 366–93). B. 369.—DELG s.v. λαχαίνω. M-M. TW.
Incidentally the LXX also uses a connective in the clause "and upon all the fishes of the sea". In this instance it is the Greek word KAI. And as does the Hebrew it connects the clause to what was previously mentioned. Which is the list of things that fear and tremble us after the flood not as you say.
Gen 9:2 And the fear of you and trembling will be upon all the wild beasts of the earth, upon all the winged creatures of the heaven, and upon all the things moving upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Under your hands I have given them to you.
Moreover anyone who knows even a little about Hebrew would immediately recognize, from the following post, that you do not understand Hebrew.
We ALL are learning and growing. Probably best not to posture huh? What was said about Vav וּֽ in the clause "and all fishes." is very true. This connective connects fish to the things that will fear us not the food mentioned in proceeding verse. Not that we are not to eat them. It is just not as you are saying.
הָֽ·אֲדָמָ֛ה [upon] the earth
וּֽ·בְ·כָל־ and all
דְּגֵ֥י fishes
And the fact that your use of Chay is not how Moses used it in the surrounding text is also seen. It is used over 10 times in the flood account. The instances we looked at it means life. living creature not what you say. Here is a partial list.
Gen 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. KJV
Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. KJV
Gen 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. KJV
Gen 9:10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth. KJV
Gen 9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. KJV
Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. KJV
Gen 8:19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark. KJV
Gen 8:1 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged; KJV
Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. KJV
Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: KJV
From Gesenius' work in respect to how the word is used.:
H2416 - GES2357
חַיָּה
f. constr. חַיַּת and poet. חַיְתוֹ with Vav parag.
Gen 1:24,
Psa 50:10,
79:2,
104:11, (comp. Gramm. § 78, note; [§ 93, 2; ] Lehrg. § 127, 3); fem. of the adjective חַי living, or, in a neutral sense, that which lives; hence-
(1) an animal, a beast; חַיָּה רָעָה a wild beast (lit. an evil beast),
Gen 37:20,
33. Pl. חַיּוֹת
Psa 104:25,
Isa 35:9,
Ezek 1:5, but more often in the sing. collect. כָּל חַיָּה all living creatures,
Gen 8:17,
9:5,
Lev 11:46. This word is also applied-(a) in the widest sense to beasts of all kinds, and also to aquatic creatures, Levit. loc. cit.; more frequently-(b) to quadrupeds as opposed to birds,
Gen 1:30,
2:19,
8:19,
9:2,
Lev 11:2,
27 11:27,
17:13,
Isa 46:1.-(c) to wild animals, as opposed to tame cattle (בְּהֵמָה),
Gen 1:25,
2:20,
7:14,
21 8:1,
9:10, specially to wild beasts, the meaning of which is often more fully expressed חַיַּת הַשָּׂדֶת
Exod 23:11,
Lev 26:22,
Deut 7:22,
Hosea 2:14,
13:8,
Jer 12:9,
Ezek 34:8, and חַיָּה רָעָה 14:15, 34:25. Arabic حَيَّةُ specially denotes a serpent.
(2) a people,
Psa 68:11, a band of men, a troop,
2Sam 23:11,
13 23:13, i.q. חַוָּה No. 2. In this word the fem. living is taken collectively for those who are alive (Lehrgeb. p. 477), חַיִּים, specially for men.
(3) as a subst. life, only in poetry, i.q. חַיִּים
Job 33:18,
22 33:22,
28 33:28,
Psa 143:3. So in the expression נֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה with art. נֶפֶשׁ הַחַיָּה animal of life, i.e. a living creature, see נֶפֶשׁ No. 4. The term life is also applied to vigour, strength.
Isa 57:10, חַיַּת יָדֵךְ מָצָאת “thou (yet) findest the life of thy hand,” i.e. vigour in thy hand. Hence-
(4) i.q. ופְנְ No 2, vital power, life, anima, to which is ascribed hunger, thirst, weariness (
Job 33:20,). מִלֵּא חַיָּה 38:39, i.q. מִלֵּא נֶפֶשׁ to fill the soul, i.e. to satisfy. Poetically חַיַּת נֶפֶשׁ is also used for the soul, desire, will, like ופְנְ No. 3; to which, besides other things, desire and blood-thirstiness are ascribed (
Psa 27:12,
41:3, ). So I interpret, 74:19, אַל־תִּתֵּן לְחַיַּת נֶפֶשׁ תּוֹרֶךָ “give not to the desire (of blood-thirsty foes [bloody-minded troop, No. 2, Ges. corr.]) thy turtle dove,” i.e. thy innocent people
Moreover anyone who knows even a little about Hebrew would immediately recognize, from the following post, that you do not understand Hebrew.
Many have said there is no commandment to keep the Sabbath prior to the giving of the commandment on Mr. Sinai.However you will see that it was not needed to be commanded. Romans 1:19, and 20 tell us the invisible things were clearly seen from the creation of the world so we are without excuse...
www.christianforums.com
You should refrain from making comments about others. It is not what we are suppose to be doing here and As was said
we are all learning.
Thanks for finding that thread though. I looked for it when GOD shown me my error and I could not find it and then forgot about it, I misread one of my references and will note that on the OP. Thank you for bringing it up so I can repent fully. We will do so here shortly.
