Did God institute High Priests, Baptism, Eucharist, Papacy?

OrthodoxyUSA

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I am not saying he did not go to Rome, I just said you could not prove it from scripture. But if you believe that Babylon refers to Rome, 1 Peter 5:13 I would tend to agree with you.
Right. I do rely heavily on the concensus of the Patriarchs on such doctrines. It isnt Dogma though, as it has nothing to do with our salvation.

Forgive me...
 
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David Kent

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Are you a Roman Catholic theologian? Have you written ANY of the Canon of the Catholic Church? Have you even read it?

But, like many of the members of the CF, you think it is cool to insult the Catholics and disrespect them. ANY Christian that has received any training in the Bible in any of the European languages, especially German and English should get down on your knees EVERY TIME they open the Bible, and thank God for His provision of the Catholic Church, and the thousands of monks who, century after century wrote, BY HAND, every page of every Bible. If it hadn't been for them, Martin Luther would NOT have had a Bible to read. He would have remained an unknown coppersmith in Germany.

That is true but the same can be said of the apostate Jews who also preserved the scriptures in the same way.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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That is true but the same can be said of the apostate Jews who also preserved the scriptures in the same way.
Thats why we use the Septuagint and not the Masoretic text.

Forgive me...
 
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Monk Brendan

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Whew! I am so glad that at least one major branch of Christianity (Eastern Orthodoxy) is not included in Babylon.

There actually is a Bishop of Babylon, and he is extremely pious.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Thats why we use the Septuagint and not the Masoretic text.

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That's easy but not a relevant answer. Christian text because anything other than basic christianity is questionably Christian.
 
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Monk Brendan

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That is true but the same can be said of the apostate Jews who also preserved the scriptures in the same way.

Are you calling me, or the Catholic Church heretical?

That, David, is against the rules of the CF:
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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That's easy but not a relevant answer. Christian text because anything other than basic christianity is questionably Christian.

Not when you consider that the reason the M text was written was to exclude Christ at every opportunity. Besides, It's not that we changed to the Septuagint. We just never adopted the M.

Forgive me...
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Not when you consider that the reason the M text was written was to exclude Christ at every opportunity. Besides, It's not that we changed to the Septuagint. We just never adopted the M.

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But Christian text is not limited to the Septuagint.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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But Christian text is not limited to the Septuagint.

Of course not.... but that was the only part I commented on. I was answering David Kent. What other text would "the apostate Jews who also preserved the scriptures in the same way."?

Perhaps you had something else in mind?

Forgive me...
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Of course not.... but that was the only part I commented on. I was answering David Kent. What other text would "the apostate Jews who also preserved the scriptures in the same way."?

Perhaps you had something else in mind?

Forgive me...
Qumran? dunno
 
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Monk Brendan

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That's easy but not a relevant answer. Christian text because anything other than basic christianity is questionably Christian.

Okay, here is a relevant argument: The "heretical Jews" translated their scriptures into the Masoretic Text.

The Masoretic Text is the authoritative Hebrew and Aramaic text of the Tanakh for Rabbinic Judaism. It was primarily copied, edited and distributed by a group of Jews known as the Masoretes between the 7th and 10th centuries CE.* The oldest extant manuscripts date from around the 9th century. The Aleppo Codex (once the oldest-known complete copy but now missing the Torah) dates from the 10th century. The Masoretic Text defines the Jewish canon and their precise letter-text, with their vocalization and accentuation known as the Masorah.

Unfortunately, most of the Bibles in the world today translate the Old Testament using the Masoretic text. The Catholics and Orthodox use the Septuagint, The Septuagint (from the Latin septuaginta, "seventy") is a Koine Greek translation of a Hebraic textual tradition that included certain texts which were later included in the canonical Hebrew Bible and other related texts which were not. As the primary Greek translation of the Old Testament, it is also called the Greek Old Testament. This translation is quoted a number of times in the New Testament, particularly in Pauline epistles, and also by the Apostolic Fathers and later Greek Church Fathers.

So, if you don't want "heretical" teaching, then the ONLY Bibles you should use are the King James Version (with Apocrypha), a good Catholic Bible (Without diminishing the authority of the texts of the books of Scripture in the original languages, the Council of Trent declared the Vulgate the official translation of the Bible for the Latin Church, but did not forbid the making of translations directly from the original languages. Before the middle of the 20th century, Catholic translations were often made from that text rather than from the original languages. Thus Ronald Knox, the author of what has been called the Knox Bible, wrote: "When I talk about translating the Bible, I mean translating the Vulgate." Today, the version of the Bible that is used in official documents in Latin is the Nova Vulgata, a revision of the Vulgate that among other changes makes it conform more closely to manuscripts in the original languages,) or the Orthodox Study Bible.

So that's it, King James,
A good Catholic Bible,
The Orthodox Study Bible.

Anything else could possibly lead you into error.
*CE is the same thing as Anno Domini--the year of the Lord--A.D.
 
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scottSTANLEY

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To trample down death, by death.
To deliver our souls from the depths of hades.
To grant the world great mercy.

Selections from ancient hymography.

Forgive me...
I guess I'm looking for the mechanics of what you are trying to say.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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I guess I'm looking for the mechanics of what you are trying to say.
That salvation from the Orthodox POV is different than the sin debt idea...

Well basically we believe that Jesus Christ came to recreate what he created. That Christ is the man God walking in the Garden with Adam. We believe Christ entered the state of death to abolish death. To undo its eternal power over mankind. We do not believe in an angry Father having to be pacified.

Forgive me...
 
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David Kent

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Jews before Christianity. The Apostles used it, thats why The Orthodox Church still does.

Forgive me...

I knew a Jewish Christian who had a bible with some of the dead sea scrolls in the appendix. He read some out to me and the one he read was almost word for word the same as the KJV.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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I knew a Jewish Christian who had a bible with some of the dead sea scrolls in the appendix. He read some out to me and the one he read was almost word for word the same as the KJV.
There aren't that many differences, hopefully not enough to cause a Christian doubt. But, if we go looking at the text of ancient Christian services we will see the older text being used.

Forgive me...
 
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parousia70

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Apostolic lineage comes through teaching and not through so called Apostolic succession,

Scripture teaches that there is one bishopric authorized of and by the apostles (Titus 1:5) by the laying on of hands in ordination (Hebrews 6:2; 2 Timothy 1:6; 1 Timothy 4:14), which existed from St. Peter and the apostles unto today (Matt 16:18-19; Eph 3:21).

The RCC does not teach the same as the apostles taught, far from it.

What unwritten, Orally transmitted teaching of the Apostles can you cite that is in conflict with what the RCC teaches?
 
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