Did God institute High Priests, Baptism, Eucharist, Papacy?

[bbbbbbb]

if he has full knowledge about it and knows its not good to skip and due to laziness or without any special reason he skips the mass....then at time of judgement according to his heart according to His knowledge and will He will be judged by God....

remember we cannot judge anyone...only God can

mortal sin is when the sin is delibrate with full consent and full knowledge if the person knews fully that it was sin and didn't mind doing sin and says yes God will forgive whatever I may do....then it is mortal sin

but i cannot say where He will go after death maybe at the last moment he may regret about it

As I thought. Thank you.

 

[jaison jose]

As I thought. Thank you.

so you knew it good
+praise the Lord+

 

[Bible2+]

bbbbbbb said in post #319:

Do you know anybody, other than Jesus Christ, who has fully loved his neighbor as himself?

Not continually, like Jesus, just as no one but Jesus Christ has never sinned (Hebrews 4:15, Romans 3:23).

But by abiding in Jesus Christ, by faith, Christians can fully love their neighbors as themselves, just as they can obey God fully:

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

This means if we love God, we will obey Him (John 14:21-24). And if we obey Him, He will continue to love us (John 15:10).

It also means it's not difficult for Christians to obey everything God requires of them (1 John 5:3b, Matthew 11:28-30, John 14:15,21, Matthew 5:48, Revelation 3:2; 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Colossians 1:28, Philippians 3:15; 1 Corinthians 2:6; 2 Corinthians 13:11).

But when Christians fail to obey God continually, they can repent from their sin and get back on the right path again. For:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[PanDeVida]

You don't know church history if you think there was no debate about the Papacy until the Reformation. I love the story about one church's Pope excommunicating the other church's Pope. I think that happened before the 1500's which would be the 16th century for one speaking truth.

And yet again I have to teach a Catholic their own doctrine on what the Church represents, body of baptized believers. This includes Protestants.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

How can I trust who you say is head of the Church if you don't know who the Church is.

It is pure assumption that there is to be a Chair in the NT. But as has been posted already, Jesus destroyed the old priesthood and replaced it with himself, evidenced by the destruction of the temple. You don't need a Pope for judging and maintaining law and order in the church. This is the job of the elders as discussed by St. Paul.

And yet, Jesus is still the head and shepherd of these churches and the Holy Spirit even works in them. I guess Jesus can handle what you label as Chaos.

Do these other things not written divide the Church? Is there a tradition not written in scripture that is necessary for salvation? The whole point of the OP is to contrast what is clearly written with what is not. You seem to now agree it is not clearly shown in scripture. Jesus knew the future divide that would come because of this. If he wanted to save the Church a lot of grief he should have just stated it as clearly as the three other examples listed in the OP. I would say 99% of the Church agree to them.

If you would have read all my posts in this thread you would not have made such an untrue statement about my understanding of keys and thrones. The keys given is authority while on earth. The throne is a reward given to them at the renewal. And yet no Catholic has even made an attempt to explain away Jesus words of a throne "at the renewal of all things". Further none has explained how they only have one throne chair in the Vatican.

What you fail to refute is that the same authority/keys were given to others. Again, I never stated that Peter was not important in the early church or that he had special authority. In fact I think he was very special. He had the power to heal all with his shadow. He had the authority to write down scripture. This has not been repeated in any Pope.

Anticipate, you stated: "You don't know church history if you think there was no debate about the Papacy until the Reformation. I love the story about one church's Pope excommunicating the other church's Pope. I think that happened before the 1500's which would be the 16th century for one speaking truth".

Anticipate, There was always quarrels within the Church founded on Rock but Never a Quarrel regarding St. Peter being the First Pope, that was the question at hand that I was referring to. So you love the story, then why are you not Catholic?

Anticipate, you stated: "And yet again I have to teach a Catholic their own doctrine on what the Church represents, body of baptized believers. This includes Protestants".

Anticipate, never did I say that a baptized Protestant is not apart of the Church, so therefore, you teach. me nothing! however, you a part of the Church that is looking from the outside in, having half truth but not the full truth!

Anticipate, you stated: "It is pure assumption that there is to be a Chair in the NT. But as has been posted already, Jesus destroyed the old priesthood and replaced it with himself, evidenced by the destruction of the temple. It is pure assumption that there is to be a Chair in the NT. But as has been posted already, Jesus destroyed the old priesthood and replaced it with himself, evidenced by the destruction of the temple. You don't need a Pope for judging and maintaining law and order in the church. This is the job of the elders as discussed by St. Paul.

Anticipate, you contradict yourself as protestants do, when you stated" You don't need a Pope for judging and maintaining law and order in the church. This is the job of the elders as discussed by St. Paul. LOL even the Priests/Elders need someone in charge Just as St. Peter was in charge of the rest of the Apostles aka Priest aka Elders. Anticipate, let St. Paul be your judge.

Anticipate what you can not seem to understand that the Lord left a leader/Pope to Sheppard His Flock / His Church through these many generations which you are apart of, but again cannot understand because again you are in the outside looking in.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Anticipate, you stated: "You don't know church history if you think there was no debate about the Papacy until the Reformation. I love the story about one church's Pope excommunicating the other church's Pope. I think that happened before the 1500's which would be the 16th century for one speaking truth".

Anticipate, There was always quarrels within the Church founded on Rock but Never a Quarrel regarding St. Peter being the First Pope, that was the question at hand that I was referring to. So you love the story, then why are you not Catholic?

Anticipate, you stated: "And yet again I have to teach a Catholic their own doctrine on what the Church represents, body of baptized believers. This includes Protestants".

Anticipate, never did I say that a baptized Protestant is not apart of the Church, so therefore, you teach. me nothing! however, you a part of the Church that is looking from the outside in, having half truth but not the full truth!

Anticipate, you stated: "It is pure assumption that there is to be a Chair in the NT. But as has been posted already, Jesus destroyed the old priesthood and replaced it with himself, evidenced by the destruction of the temple. It is pure assumption that there is to be a Chair in the NT. But as has been posted already, Jesus destroyed the old priesthood and replaced it with himself, evidenced by the destruction of the temple. You don't need a Pope for judging and maintaining law and order in the church. This is the job of the elders as discussed by St. Paul.

Anticipate, you contradict yourself as protestants do, when you stated" You don't need a Pope for judging and maintaining law and order in the church. This is the job of the elders as discussed by St. Paul. LOL even the Priests/Elders need someone in charge Just as St. Peter was in charge of the rest of the Apostles aka Priest aka Elders. Anticipate, let St. Paul be your judge.

Anticipate what you can not seem to understand that the Lord left a leader/Pope to Sheppard His Flock / His Church through these many generations which you are apart of, but again cannot understand because again you are in the outside looking in.

You apparently know little or nothing about Eastern Orthodoxy. The Eastern Orthodox (as well as the other Orthodox bodies) have never accepted the idea of the papacy and, therefore, reject the notion of Peter occupying such an office. In their understanding, Peter was one among equals - the equals being the other Apostles.

 

[Bible2+]

PanDeVida said in post #324:

There was always quarrels within the Church founded on Rock . . .

Note that the "rock" in Matthew 16:18 is Jesus Christ Himself (Matthew 16:16b,18b), the rock/stone on whom the Church/New Covenant Israel is built (Ephesians 2:20, Matthew 16:18b; 1 Peter 2:6), the rock/stone who was rejected and crucified (Romans 9:33, Acts 4:11; 1 Peter 2:4,8), the same rock/Christ who followed Old Covenant Israel/the church in the wilderness (1 Corinthians 10:4-5, cf. Acts 7:38), and the same rock/Christ revered by New Covenant Israel/the Church (1 Peter 2:4-10).

That is, Matthew 16:18 was prophesying of when the literal gates of Hades wouldn't prevail against Jesus Christ (Psalms 107:16), when, after His physical resurrection, He went down and liberated the souls of the dead Old Testament believers from Hades (1 Peter 4:6; 1 Peter 3:18c-19, Ephesians 4:8-9, Hebrews 11:13-16, Hebrews 12:22-24).

PanDeVida said in post #324:

There was always quarrels within the Church . . .

That's right.

But thank God that we're assured at least some people in the Church will continue in the truth until Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming. For there will be true Christians who will still be "alive and remain" at that time (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17). But the way they will continue in the truth won't be by replacing God Himself with Church leaders as their source of truth, for Church leaders are fallible (e.g. Matthew 16:23, Galatians 2:11-14, Luke 22:34). It's only by sticking close to God's own infallible Word the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16, Acts 17:11b, John 17:17) that Christians can be sure not to be led astray by any Church leaders who might be teaching false doctrines which contradict God's Word (2 Timothy 4:2-4; 1 Timothy 4:1, John 8:31b, Mark 8:35-38).

Also, because all humans (except Jesus Christ) are fallible, the Church itself (unlike God's own Word the Bible: 2 Timothy 3:16 to 4:4) has never been a perfect model for Christian doctrine and practice. There have always been wrong divisions (Acts 6:1; 1 Corinthians 1:12-13; 1 Corinthians 3:4) and heresies in the Church (1 Corinthians 11:18-19). For even those whom God's Holy Spirit has made leaders in the Church (Acts 20:28) can wrongly employ their free will to teach wrong doctrines and practices which increase their power over people in the Church (Acts 20:30, cf. also 3 John 1:9-10). They and their followers can mistakenly forget the warnings of 1 Peter 5:3, Matthew 20:25-27 and Matthew 23:8-12.

Also, even Satan's ministers can transform themselves into "apostles" of Christ (2 Corinthians 11:13-15, cf. also Matthew 7:15). And even those truly appointed as apostles by Jesus can wrongly employ their free will to fall from their office (Acts 1:17,20b,25). So even the teachings of apostles must be checked against God's own Word the Bible (Acts 17:11b). So how much more must the doctrine of lesser "teachers" in the Church (1 Corinthians 12:28, Ephesians 4:11) be checked against the Bible, to make sure what they're teaching isn't mistaken (2 Peter 2:1-3; 2 Timothy 4:2-4)?