Did God Fail?

[secondtimearound]

Goodness gracious, so many things to respond to. It's going to take me a while but given that I only have a few minutes right now, I'll take care of 1 of the responses quickly.



Subjective. Your love is not he same as Hitler's love. Your love may not be the same as my love. Emotions are purely subjective, unless you have any reason to prove otherwise.

For instance, Muslims that suicide bomb themselves truly believe that Allah loves them and will bless them in the afterlife. Their love is just as genuine as yours, and completely different at the same time. Why else would somebody kill themselves along with other people?

You missed the point completely. It's not that Hitler's Love is any different from mine, it's not, it just has a different effect on him than me. There is a monstrous difference in those two statements. Love is not just some "subjective emotion", for example, an angry parent who scolds their child for doing wrong, they are not doing it out of hatred for the child (some maybe), they are doing it out of Love. When I cry because of the loss of a loved one, I am crying because I am sad, but I am sad because of Love. Love exists outside of us, from a second party and I believe that Love is God. Moreover, no emotion is ever present, but love is.

With bringing up suicide bombing you also missed the mark by a country mile. It is not their Love for God is as genuine (although it may very well be), it is that their BELIEF and DEVOTION is as genuine as mine and in being such, causes them to do what they do. The question here is not how genuine their love is, but how genuine the source of the love is, Allah over the God of the Bible. Is suicide bombing a product of love. I'll play it safe here and say no.

Also, it's not a hard thing to work my into objective morals and duties as also a product of Love. For those who are quick to say that objective morals do not exist are the first ones complaining when someone has stolen from them. As for the muslim who is blowing up hoards of Jews and thinks it is ok, watch thier reaction when Israel kills one of them in retaliation, then you get to see how they really feel about murder in the name of God. Revenge is a slippery slope.

 

[Jeff4life]

But in this case, the violinist loves us and wants us all to believe in him. If a violinist wants the world to hear his violin, why would he dress in dirty clothing and play in a subway where many people don't appreciate classical music?

In the anaolgy, classical music represents goodness itself. You can't really fault someone for not recognizing classical music, but if they don't recognize goodness it is because of their own sin.

Or are you suggesting that humans are merely a science study for God on human behavior? He plays in the subways to see who will stop and listen to him, and damns the rest of humanity to hell. Again, doesn't match up with God's loving nature.

If someone doesn't appreciate goodness its because of their own sin, and their own sin is by definition their own moral evil. I don't see why it isn't their responsibility and not God's.

 

[Hentenza]

Please respect the mod hat and the posting rules of this forum. Thanks.

MOD HAT


As a reminder, per the guidelines for this forum, the ONLY non-Christian allowed to post in this thread is the OP.

A clean up was done.

 

[humblehumility]

Wow, I made posts here and mods deleted them? This is my thread is it not?

 

[Hakan101]

No it's Question.Everything's thread.

 

[humblehumility]

oops. true

wrong thread, sorry

 

[1Prophetess]

Why did God choose to write things the way he did? Why is the Old Testament apparently a set of laws only for early evolved humans 2-6,000 years ago? Why have so many other religions popped up that are clearly as convincing as Christianity is? Why is the Bible no more verifiable than the Koran? Why would God expect intelligent, reasonable, evolved humans to believe the Bible over any other holy book? Why is it so difficult for Muslims (or any non-Christian) to convert to Christianity? Why is science in the Bible clearly false and impossible?

While I'm very receptive to the idea of an intelligent designer for the universe, it's literally laughable to think that the Bible is the product of this perfectly loving, benevolent creator. If this is God's work, then he clearly failed as he did pre-flood.

Third times a charm?

Sure don't have a clue why "Third times a charm."

You know, if you offended me like this, I would NOT talk to you. I would think you chose not to be my friend, and I would not choose to talk to you until you decided to be respectful. You're saying these things about the God of the Universe!

God does not have to tolerate your weak thinking, or your ineffective, powerless, awkward, human intelligence (which is not intelligence anyway). He laughs at your thinking. Your thinking is all wrong!

We humans have to come to God in humility not demanding, pushing and insulting.

In Mark 4: 10 When he [Jesus] was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,

“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’[a]” 13 Then Jesus said to them, “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? 14 The farmer sows the word. 15 Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16 Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy. 17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 18 Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19 but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20 Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop—some thirty, some sixty, some a hundred times what was sown.”

This means that God sows seeds in everyone, including you, but if you have infertile ground, then nothing grows and Satan takes away anything you have heard so that you cannot even consider it.

You must have some fertile ground or you wouldn't be asking, but you have a lot of arrogance against God, and it is hard for Him to get through that since arrogance is what brings in sin. (I'm not being any h harder on you than you are being on God.)

Try this:

Romans 10:
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

In Mark 10, a father came to Jesus to ask him to deliver his son. He said to Jesus, "22 “It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him. But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us.”

23 “‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for one who believes.” 24 Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!”

And if you can't believe, then say this: "Help my unbelief" as the father of this boy that was healed said.

Lord, I thank You for questions. I praise You that You are the God that is more than enough. I bind the devil who is stealing the Word, and I lose the power of the Word of God to overpower this person. I ask You now for this questioner to see You, to have You revealed in Your Glory. I ask for salvation to become real, in the name of Jesus. Amen.


God bless you. I hope you are awake when it happens because, if not, you will miss it entirely.

 

[razeontherock]

Preach it Sis! Solid, and on target.

 

[1Prophetess]

Thanks. It's not me.

It was meant to be.

 

[oi_antz]

Why is it so difficult for Muslims (or any non-Christian) to convert to Christianity?

Hidden there among slander I spotted a very good question. I hope you treat this one with utmost reverence. The reason people don't want to join Christianity is because it requires sacrifice. Other religions are selling pudding and pie, Christianity is quite unlike other religions in that sense, that Jesus has just the right knack of saying "this sin is the crux - that camel that won't fit through the eye of my needle". If you can sacrifice that sin then all other sins will go relatively easy. Does this help you understand?

 

[1Prophetess]

And I thought that folks didn't want to be a Christian because it just was too easy--a GIFT? What? That's all I have to do to go to heaven is accept a free gift? HA! That's too easy! I don't believe it.

I Corinthians 1:27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

What could be easier? It's just tooooo easy.

Thank you Lord.

His way, I can never say how great I am. I have to say only that You are so great my Lord and my Master!

 

[oi_antz]

And I thought that folks didn't want to be a Christian because it just was too easy--a GIFT? What? That's all I have to do to go to heaven is accept a free gift? HA! That's too easy! I don't believe it.

I Corinthians 1:27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

What could be easier? It's just tooooo easy.

Thank you Lord.

His way, I can never say how great I am. I have to say only that You are so great my Lord and my Master!

Hi 1Prophetess, I wonder, is this in response to my comment that Christianity is hard to enter due to the fact that people prefer sin? I don't mean to contradict you, just to seek clarification - do you think I was wrong to say something that I said?

 

[1Prophetess]

No, it isn't. I was just saying that I always thought folks didn't turn to God because it was so easy it seemed wrong.

But I am sure that people DO prefer sin. Sin is fun (for a season).

Be blessed!

 

[oi_antz]

No, it isn't. I was just saying that I always thought folks didn't turn to God because it was so easy it seemed wrong.

But I am sure that people DO prefer sin. Sin is fun (for a season).

Be blessed!

Ah , thank you.

 

[lesliedellow]

Yes, they're complaints, but that doesn't mean they make no sense. Christian God makes it very difficult to believe in the Bible, and my above questions only highlight a few reasons why. It's not logical that an all loving God would make his religion so hard to believe. Not even close.

Why is it hard to believe? Probably because of the presuppositions you bring to the table.

 

[nubs]

Hidden there among slander I spotted a very good question. I hope you treat this one with utmost reverence. The reason people don't want to join Christianity is because it requires sacrifice. Other religions are selling pudding and pie, Christianity is quite unlike other religions in that sense, that Jesus has just the right knack of saying "this sin is the crux - that camel that won't fit through the eye of my needle". If you can sacrifice that sin then all other sins will go relatively easy. Does this help you understand?

It seems that other religions actually do require tons of sacrifice. Buddhist monks seem to live in solidarity and sacrifice lots of "sins". There are some extremist muslims who sacrifice their life for their religion. Whether it is true or not doesn't take away from the fact that they are sacrificing something for something they believe in just as strongly as your convictions are.

 

[nubs]

You missed the point completely. It's not that Hitler's Love is any different from mine, it's not, it just has a different effect on him than me. There is a monstrous difference in those two statements. Love is not just some "subjective emotion", for example, an angry parent who scolds their child for doing wrong, they are not doing it out of hatred for the child (some maybe), they are doing it out of Love. When I cry because of the loss of a loved one, I am crying because I am sad, but I am sad because of Love. Love exists outside of us, from a second party and I believe that Love is God. Moreover, no emotion is ever present, but love is.

With bringing up suicide bombing you also missed the mark by a country mile. It is not their Love for God is as genuine (although it may very well be), it is that their BELIEF and DEVOTION is as genuine as mine and in being such, causes them to do what they do. The question here is not how genuine their love is, but how genuine the source of the love is, Allah over the God of the Bible. Is suicide bombing a product of love. I'll play it safe here and say no.

Also, it's not a hard thing to work my into objective morals and duties as also a product of Love. For those who are quick to say that objective morals do not exist are the first ones complaining when someone has stolen from them. As for the muslim who is blowing up hoards of Jews and thinks it is ok, watch thier reaction when Israel kills one of them in retaliation, then you get to see how they really feel about murder in the name of God. Revenge is a slippery slope.

The analogy of parents to children never seems to work. Not sure why people still use it as it is not even close to comparable. I have asked my dad if I didn't believe that he existed or didn't want him in my life that he would set me on fire, he said no. I think it's because he loves me.

 

[1Prophetess]

...I have asked my dad if I didn't believe that he existed or didn't want him in my life that he would set me on fire, he said no...

Now that's funny. I don't care who you are.

It never came into my mind to ask either of my parents if they would set me on fire. I always thought they loved me albeit sometimes in a very selfish way.

 

[oi_antz]

It seems that other religions actually do require tons of sacrifice. Buddhist monks seem to live in solidarity and sacrifice lots of "sins". There are some extremist muslims who sacrifice their life for their religion. Whether it is true or not doesn't take away from the fact that they are sacrificing something for something they believe in just as strongly as your convictions are.

You haven't understood what I meant to say. What you failed to observe is that in Christianity it is Jesus who identifies our greatest sin. Anyone can choose to believe what someone else says is good and bad and live according to an established law, that's not my point. The point is that Jesus says "this is your greatest sin, you must repent from that if you want to follow me", and that sin is going to be different for each of us. For the rich man, it was to sell his possessions, for the adulteress it was to quit adultery, for me it was to quit masturbating. All other sins will be dealt with in good time, and they do not require sacrifice but willingness.

As for your comment of Islamic jihad is quite the opposite to Christian sacrifice. Muslim martyrs sacrifice their life willingly and against the will of non-believers, whereas Christian martyrs sacrifice their life under persecution.

 

[nubs]

Now that's funny. I don't care who you are.

It never came into my mind to ask either of my parents if they would set me on fire. I always thought they loved me albeit sometimes in a very selfish way.

I did ask my dad this, then my mother later. I am at a weird place in my life, an interesting one. Looking for answers. I come here to read, I mostly read, sometimes put in my two cents but I do learn a lot.