Did God Create Fossils?

[ClothedInGrace]

It's possible that God means us to learn more about how the universe actually works. Science is our means of slowly discovering the wonder and mystery of Creation. The Bible is a collection of writings composed over the course of a few centuries, the most recent of which was written over 1,900 years ago. It was written in a pre-scientific world. Evolution had to be discovered in the same way that we discovered that disease is caused by microorganisms, and not always unclean spirits. We discovered that the Earth revolves around the Sun, and not the other way around, and the stars are other suns, not pinpricks in the firmament of heaven. The Genesis account has plants appearing the day before the Sun does! As another poster has mentioned, Jesus himself spoke in parables. It is possible that Genesis is a symbolic story meant to define the best understanding the ancient Hebrews possessed. To doubt its literality does not also amount to doubting God is the ultimate and eternal Creator. In this life we see through a glass darkly, and that includes our interpretation of scripture.

The problem is that evolution requires millions of years of death and mutation--if it even works--and it goes against the scriptures. You either believe man or you believe the Word.

 

[stephen583]

The Genesis account has plants appearing the day before the Sun does!

Yes. exactly. And if you consult with astrophysics experts, they'll tell you the same thing. Matter proceeds energy. Originally, the Sun was surrounded by dense gases. No light escaped from the sun for billions of years. The planets existed long before the sun ever shined on them. It's helpful if you've been to Orlando's Disney World and seen the Planetarium exhibit, but I'm guessing you can probably google all that on the internet somewhere.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

I have done it ,and i have also find Isaiah 45:18 who say that God created it not in vain (Tohuw...Bohuw), he formed it to be inhabited
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Isaiah 45:18
18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens;God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Okay, I'm done talking about this, because you obviously can't understand what I've been saying.

 

[Riberra]

Okay, I'm done talking about this, because you obviously can't understand what I've been saying.

What you been saying is that the creation of the Earth by God start with the account of Genesis 1:2....is that right ?
I have simly tried to show you that Genesis 1:1 say otherwise.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Originally, the Sun was surrounded by dense gases. No light escaped from the sun for billions of years.

Why do you believe that though?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

What you been saying is that the creation of the Earth by God start with the account of Genesis 1:2....is that right ?

God created the heavens (space) and the earth surrounded by water in Genesis 1:1 (I understand earlier I said it was an introduction, but it was also the beginning act), but he wasn't done with creation until after the 6th day. Also, that tohuw and bohuw don't mean vanity and destruction in it's context, but emptiness.

 

[stephen583]

Understand, I'm not saying everything in the Bible agrees with science. Obviously, a lot has been added to the Bible by man, as well. Like the way the KJV replaced the Hebrew words "terrible sea creatures" with the words God created "great whales", (Genesis 1:21). If you check the NIV, ISV and ESV versions of the Bible you'll find words like the original Hebrew text. The English Revised Version, Darby Bible, ASV, and NAS Bible all say, God created the "great sea monsters". Does anybody here believe whales are "sea monsters" ???

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Understand, I'm not saying everything in the Bible agrees with science. Obviously, a lot has been added to the Bible by man, as well. Like the way the KJV replaced the Hebrew words "terrible sea creatures" with the words God created "great whales", (Genesis 1:21). If you check the NIV, ISV and ESV versions of the Bible you'll find words like the original Hebrew text. The English Revised Version, Darby Bible, ASV, and NAS Bible all say, God created the "great sea monsters". Does anybody here believe whales are "sea monsters" ???

That's not an addition to the Bible: That's a translation.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Day in this verse is yom:

יוֹם yôwm, yome; from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term)

The associated term in this verse is the time it took for God to make the earth and the heavens. In Genesis 1, however, the term yom is defined by the ereb (evening/sunset) and boqer (morning/sunrise), making it a literal day.

Anything can be used figuratively. That really does not explain anything:

yôm
yome
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.

Actually does more to prove our point rather than dismiss it.
All these words can be taken figuratively. These attempts to dismiss the logic will do this to you... it ends up proving the other side right.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The problem is that evolution requires millions of years of death and mutation--if it even works--and it goes against the scriptures. You either believe man or you believe the Word.

Why do you think it goes against the scriptures?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Anything can be used figuratively. That really does not explain anything:

yôm
yome
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.

Actually does more to prove our point rather than dismiss it.
All these words can be taken figuratively. These attempts to dismiss the logic will do this to you... it ends up proving the other side right.

Except you ignore the use of the words ereb and boqer...

 

[SavedByGrace3]

There is really never a contradiction between science and the Bible. Either there is a misunderstanding by science, or a misinterpretation of the Bible. They agree perfectly.

 

[FreakOnALeash]

No. Fossils are a result of evolution, here read this.........

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/lines_02

As for that Moses and the Ark story, do you actually believe that ever happened........? I don't think that story was meant to be taken seriously my friend Fossils could NEVER be evidence of any 'creation' but it does go far from an evolution perspective, anyways check out that link!

 

[ClothedInGrace]

There is really never a contradiction between science and the Bible. Either there is a misunderstanding by science, or a misinterpretation of the Bible. They agree perfectly.

You are absolutely right. Evolution and billions of years are a Godless misunderstanding of science.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

No. Fossils are a result of evolution, here read this.........

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/lines_02

As for that Moses and the Ark story, do you actually believe that ever happened........? I don't think that story was meant to be taken seriously my friend Fossils could NEVER be evidence of any 'creation' but it does go far from an evolution perspective, anyways check out that link!

Yeah, I do believe in Noah's ark. You know why? I believe the Bible. I'm so sick of everyone acting like God's Word doesn't matter anymore: Everyone in this generation is going to be held accountable for neglecting God's Word.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

You all reject the Word of God because of what "science" tells you. You know what science also tells us? That resurrection is impossible. If you reject the resurrection of Jesus then you are not a Christian I hate to say.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Except you ignore the use of the words ereb and boqer...

Good men have made good hearted translations of ereb...
Here are some. But I do not think any of them change the meaning of the verse:

(Darby) These are the histories of the heavens and the earth, when they were created, in the day that Jehovah Elohim made earth and heavens,
(DRB) These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:
(ERV) This is the story about the creation of the sky and the earth. This is what happened when the LORD God made the earth and the sky.
(GW) This is the account of heaven and earth when they were created, at the time when the LORD God made earth and heaven.
(ISV) These are the records of how the heavens and the earth were created. On the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
(JUB) These are the origins of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens
WEB) This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made the earth and the heavens.
(WEBA) This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made the earth and the heavens.
(YLT) These are births of the heavens and of the earth in their being prepared, in the day of Jehovah God's making earth and heavens;

This one is interesting:
(TLV) These are the genealogical records of the heavens and the earth when they were created, at the time when Adonai Elohim made land and sky.

I don't think any of these guys had a dog in this fight, so we can take it as being as accurate in their minds. So I think the overall message is that the heavens and earth were created in a "day" (or age IMHO) of indeterminate length. That length could be as science says... over 13 billion years. By science I mean obvious observation. The Hubble just discovered a group of galaxies that appear to be over 13 billion light years away. No reason to disbelieve this. It looks like what it is. This does not contradict anything in the scriptures. Moses seems to be saying there was creative age (day) that occurred in a series of creative generations each made up of individual days or time periods.

The day (or age) of creation
generation 1
generation 2
generation 3
etc
etc
generation x(genesis 1:3-28 = current generation)
_first day
_second day
_third day
_forth day
_fifth day
_sixth day
_seventh day

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Good men have made good hearted translations of ereb...
Here are some. But I do not think any of them change the meaning of the verse:

(Darby) These are the histories of the heavens and the earth, when they were created, in the day that Jehovah Elohim made earth and heavens,
(DRB) These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:
(ERV) This is the story about the creation of the sky and the earth. This is what happened when the LORD God made the earth and the sky.
(GW) This is the account of heaven and earth when they were created, at the time when the LORD God made earth and heaven.
(ISV) These are the records of how the heavens and the earth were created. On the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
(JUB) These are the origins of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens
WEB) This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made the earth and the heavens.
(WEBA) This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made the earth and the heavens.
(YLT) These are births of the heavens and of the earth in their being prepared, in the day of Jehovah God's making earth and heavens;

This one is interesting:
(TLV) These are the genealogical records of the heavens and the earth when they were created, at the time when Adonai Elohim made land and sky.

I don't think any of these guys had a dog in this fight, so we can take it as being as accurate in their minds. So I think the overall message is that the heavens and earth were created in a "day" (or age IMHO) of indeterminate length. That length could be as science says... over 13 billion years. By science I mean obvious observation. The Hubble just discovered group of galaxies that appear to be over 13 billion light years away. No reason to disbelieve this. It looks like what it is. This does not contradict anything in the scriptures. Moses seems to be saying there was creative age (day) that occurred in a series of creative generations each made up of individual days or time periods.

The day (or age) of creation
generation 1
generation 2
generation 3
etc
etc
generation x(genesis 1:3-28 = current generation)
_first day
_second day
_third day
_forth day
_fifth day
_sixth day
_seventh day

The word in Genesis 2:4 is not ereb, it's towldah. Ereb means evening or sunset, which is used in conjunction with boqer (morning/sunrise) when describing the days in Genesis 1.

I suggest using blueletterbible dot org to look at the Hebrew and Greek.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Why do you think it goes against the scriptures?

Forgot about this post... Nowhere in Genesis does God create using millions of years of death and mutation: You insert that into the text because you don't want to believe what it plainly teaches.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The word in Genesis 2:4 is not ereb, it's towldah. Ereb means evening or sunset, which is used in conjunction with boqer (morning/sunrise) when describing the days in Genesis 1.

I suggest using blueletterbible dot org to look at the Hebrew and Greek.

I used Strong's

תֹּלְדָה תּוֹלְדָה
tôledâh tôledâh
to-led-aw', to-led-aw'
From H3205; (plural only) descent, that is, family; (figuratively) history: - birth, generations.
Total KJV occurrences: 39

True... not evening or 24 hour day... rather a period of time or history. Also notice that the word is always considered a plural... like sheep or deer.
But in any usage, the true meaning has less to do with the word than with the context. The context determines which of the meanings may be used.