• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Did God Create Fossils?

FreakOnALeash

Active Member
Feb 28, 2016
75
16
27
Uk
✟22,814.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Do you believe the in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus or not?

Can't say yes or no, not sure of all of those stories, not 100% anyway, never been to church, never read the bible so far, yet.... My whole family are atheists so church and the bible have never been important growing up BUT education, logic, reason, science etc, particularly learning about evolution very important, for example.... Now I'm NOT gay but I respect anyone who is, my own legal guardians are married men BUT not all Christains would 'accept' they are married, they think God created man only to be with women BUT if you accept evolution and the way we evolved we can see how natural homosexuality is for some people, look at animals, lots of animals have sex with same sex so accepting this in the animal world is one step forward to accepting the evolution of humanity and hopefully get rid of stupid discrimination too.

Fossils is a great example of evolution by the way too, never heard this question asked, God creating fossils, wow, but ok, you just have to accept he created homosexuality also then in that case otherwise there would be no homosexuality, none even in animals but there is.
 
Upvote 0

SavedByGrace3

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)
Site Supporter
Jun 6, 2002
20,781
4,498
Midlands
Visit site
✟786,603.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It is interesting that the Pharisees attached religious significance to the defecation process that God created and which is certainly not "unclean." Well we count it as gross... I have changed many a diaper and it is pretty disgusting believe you me. In the day of our Lord on the earth men simply cleaned themselves by grabbing a handful of sand and taking care of business. We might consider that gross and it would be unsanitary to go eat after doing that. But the Pharisees went further and tried make this a damnable offense. Jesus did not consider it so. Nothing God created or the way He chose to create is, is evil, unclean, or evil. It was all declared GOOD, and VERY GOOD. So I for one am not afraid of creation or the way God made things. Thank you Lord!!! It's all good!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

SavedByGrace3

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)
Site Supporter
Jun 6, 2002
20,781
4,498
Midlands
Visit site
✟786,603.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Homosexuality is entirely an mental/psychological perversion. God did not create a "homosexual gene."
Science is flawed here because how would such a trait be passed down from one generation to the next? Even evolution has to admit that this would be a impossible detriment to the passing on of this trait > homosexuals do not have children with each other. This mutation (even if it did exist) would not last more than a generation at most. It would have been de-selected immediately.
 
Upvote 0

miamited

Ted
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2010
13,243
6,313
Seneca SC
✟705,807.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
But this is a delusion! "Plain english" is irrelevant, for the ancient writers (and readers) of the creation narratives did not share your modern, Western biases toward historicity. We are trained from birth to view historicity and verifiability as the arbiters of truth; and so this indoctrination dictates how we interpret Scripture. When we read a narrative that even presents some manner of being "historical", we immediately apply the glaze of historical criticism and find an interpretation that fits our starting assumptions about how such things should be interpreted. Since we are conditioned to reject the mythological and allegorical, we are to interpret the creation accounts as "literal history", never considering even for a moment that the ancients might have viewed these narratives in a completely different light that we do. We can't tolerate the notion that these stories could be religious mythology, nor that they could be borne out of a shared mythology of the ANE. NO! Scripture must meet our modern, historical/critical standards, after all!

But in so doing, we do immense violence to the Scriptures, to our shame.

Hi AIB,

Well, I can attest and it is my testimony that a whole crowd of witnesses believe as you do.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
Upvote 0

FreakOnALeash

Active Member
Feb 28, 2016
75
16
27
Uk
✟22,814.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Homosexuality is entirely an mental/psychological perversion. God did not create a "homosexual gene."
Science is flawed here because how would such a trait be passed down from one generation to the next? Even evolution has to admit that this would be a impossible detriment to the passing on of this trait > homosexuals do not have children with each other. This mutation (even if it did exist) would not last more than a generation at most. It would have been de-selected immediately.

Not necessarily so NO.

SCIENTISTS DISCOVER EVOLUTIONARY ADVANTAGE HOMOSEXUAL SEX

http://www.iflscience.com/plants-an...iscover-evolutionary-advantage-homosexual-sex
 
Upvote 0

SavedByGrace3

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)
Site Supporter
Jun 6, 2002
20,781
4,498
Midlands
Visit site
✟786,603.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

SavedByGrace3

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)
Site Supporter
Jun 6, 2002
20,781
4,498
Midlands
Visit site
✟786,603.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I suspect this is another incidence of when science really needs to find something to validate a political stance, they go out in the back yard and within minutes... there it is!!!
Besides, if it were to give an advantage in humans... we would have went extinct long ago.
 
Upvote 0

ClothedInGrace

Soli Deo Gloria
Site Supporter
Jun 9, 2015
1,164
474
✟72,601.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Can't say yes or no, not sure of all of those stories, not 100% anyway, never been to church, never read the bible so far, yet.... My whole family are atheists so church and the bible have never been important growing up BUT education, logic, reason, science etc, particularly learning about evolution very important, for example.... Now I'm NOT gay but I respect anyone who is, my own legal guardians are married men BUT not all Christains would 'accept' they are married, they think God created man only to be with women BUT if you accept evolution and the way we evolved we can see how natural homosexuality is for some people, look at animals, lots of animals have sex with same sex so accepting this in the animal world is one step forward to accepting the evolution of humanity and hopefully get rid of stupid discrimination too.

Fossils is a great example of evolution by the way too, never heard this question asked, God creating fossils, wow, but ok, you just have to accept he created homosexuality also then in that case otherwise there would be no homosexuality, none even in animals but there is.
You can't say if you believe in the resurrection of Jesus or not? How can you list your faith as Christian then? You are not a Christian.
 
Upvote 0

ClothedInGrace

Soli Deo Gloria
Site Supporter
Jun 9, 2015
1,164
474
✟72,601.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I suspect this is another incidence of when science really needs to find something to validate a political stance, they go out in the back yard and within minutes... there it is!!!
Same with evolution. They really needed something to prove God didn't create us, they took some fossils and did some dating... there it was!!!
 
Upvote 0

FreakOnALeash

Active Member
Feb 28, 2016
75
16
27
Uk
✟22,814.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Homosexuality is entirely an mental/psychological perversion.

homosexuals do not have children with each other. This mutation (even if it did exist) would not last more than a generation at most. It would have been de-selected immediately.

You are wrong on many levels. To start with if you ask ANY homosexual when they knew they were gay...... Have you ever heard of anyone say they "chose" to be gay? No? Neither have I. Here is a good one, my uncle asked me when I was younger when I knew I was 'not' gay, which has been always as I have never been attracted to another dude, however I like to wear black make up, clothes, red eye contacts etc which could be considered 'feminine' still not gay though as only the minority of people are 'Truely' homosexual so it really doesn't matter to evolution as even if a guy is sexually attracted to another guy the 'majority' won't be no matter how much make up I wear I still cannot force myself to be sexually attracted to another guy..... Can you? Doubt it. Calling it a mental/psychological perversion is offensive. Although a man may not be physically capable of having children with another man many are more than willing to accept them as their own etc. They were born like this, have always felt inclined that way, never "chose" it, have been alienated by society by it, have not been able to accept who they are all through the ages due to religious reasons, look at history, it shows homosexuals even being put to death in the name of God, so it could even be said a belief in God will kill us all so now that we have evolved enough in our attitudes to be more tolerant we still have a long way to go but we are getting there and as people we could never 'All' be gay like that, so no it would not mean the end of humanity. Again when did you know you were 'not' gay? Now go find a homosexual man and ask him when he 'turned' gay, never because he will likely tell you he was born that way, I cannot force myself to feel that way, neither can you, we were not born that way. Neither by Choice.
 
Upvote 0

ClothedInGrace

Soli Deo Gloria
Site Supporter
Jun 9, 2015
1,164
474
✟72,601.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Look what you've backed yourself into Didaskalos... How are you going to convince this man that Homosexuality is sin? According to you we must read what secular science says into the Bible. Therefore, if secular science tells us that homosexuality is genetic and not a sin then I guess you have a misunderstanding of scripture. ;)

Why will you believe the Bible over secular science on this issue and not the other?
 
Upvote 0

ClothedInGrace

Soli Deo Gloria
Site Supporter
Jun 9, 2015
1,164
474
✟72,601.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Is that so? I don't think you make that decision, anyway......
You don't even know if you believe Christ rose from the dead, so how can you say you know Christ? Believing in God doesn't make you a Christian, but having His Spirit makes you a Christian.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,


You said you haven't even read the Bible. Go do so!
 
Upvote 0

Colter

Member
Nov 9, 2004
8,711
1,407
62
✟107,801.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Correct. But who were the people of Nod ?! Where did they come from ?! Who became Cain's wife ?! Some Bible scholars suppose the inhabitants of Nod were other descendants of Adam and Eve. However, this theory violates the biblical narrative, which mentions no other descendants of Adam at this point in the story. So that theory is based on unbiblical conjecture. Adam and Eve do not have another son until Seth is conceived, to replace Able whom Cain slew, (Genesis 4:25).

Nor is it plausible Cain could even have gone to other descendants of Adam and married or lived with them, because Cain was cursed by God and would have been recognized immediately by any of Adam's descendants because of the mark he carried on his forehead, (Genesis 4:15). Even if Cain returned hundreds of years later, (as some have proposed), the mark would still be evident, and identify him as being banished and cursed. So it's clear, Cain never returned to live with the descendants of Adam and Eve.

So we're left with the disturbing question.. Who were the people of Nod ? Where did they come from ? Apparently, they were not the descendants of Adam, because they permitted Cain to marry and live among them. That seems to me like a reasonable conclusion.

Were the people of Nod actually Non-Adamic creations ?! Homo sapiens that survived into the early Neolithic Period ??? I wonder about that sometimes.
As a student of the Urantia revelation we know who the Nodites were, Cains real father was a Nodite. It's a rather long and complex story but Cain was a product of the sin of Eve nurtured by the "crafty beast".
 
Upvote 0

Colter

Member
Nov 9, 2004
8,711
1,407
62
✟107,801.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
lifesciences-microevolution_vs_macroevolution.jpg
Mutations were sudden.
 
Upvote 0

Colter

Member
Nov 9, 2004
8,711
1,407
62
✟107,801.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Someone asked in another thread, "Is there any way to stop 70% of our young people from leaving the church by the time they are teenagers" ?! Well for starters you might stop telling them evil scientists created dinosaur bones to discredit religion and any interpretation of the Bible that embraces the concept of evolution, or at least adaptation of species to their environment, is equally as false and evil.

Kids aren't stupid. They read. They watch the Discovery Channel and Animal Planet. They have computers. They are exposed to scientific information constantly. They are constantly subjected to peer pressure and ridicule. IMHO, throwing fundamentalist pseudoscience at them isn't any way to keep them in church. That kind of nonsense, is just making matters worse.

So the next time your kid asks you if science disagrees with the Bible, you might just say, "You know what".. "I read something on CF the other day about that". "Let's have a look at it".
Amen! I was one of those kids that sat and listened to those convoluted, dark teachings!
 
Upvote 0

Riberra

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2014
5,098
594
✟97,664.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God created the heavens (space) and the earth surrounded by water in Genesis 1:1 (I understand earlier I said it was an introduction, but it was also the beginning act),
but he wasn't done with creation until after the 6th day. Also, that tohuw and bohuw don't mean vanity and destruction in it's context, but emptiness.
You infer that God originally created the Earth as being a sphere of water witout form and void from Genesis 1:2.

Genesis 1:2
2 “And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

The word “was” is 1961 in your Strong’s Concordance and being properly translated means, “became“. This change in words completely alters the scriptures. The word“was” implies that God created the earth void which we know is not accurate and we will completely document that fact as we move through this study.

You seem well acquinted with the use of the Hebrew words from Strong concordance... let aside your preconceived notions for a moment ...and lets see what the original contex tell us...


Also The reason why God created humans -a soul/spirit inside a corruptible flesh and blood body -in the actual Earth AGE- is explained....

SEE HERE ALL BACKED FROM SCRIPTURE
http://worldeventsandthebible.com/2014/09/satans-sin.html


All referenced verses in the pages linked come from the KJV Bible.
ALSO SEE HERE:
The World That Then Was, The First Earth Age

http://www.worldeventsandthebible.com/2009/11/world-that-then-was-age-of-earth.html

Today, many Christians are confounded by the age of the earth, believing the earth and all of creation is merely six-thousand years old. Yet, this thought is not logical, nor is it Biblical and I personally believe this teaching is one of the major reasons for unbelief in the world today. Christians themselves would agree that our Father created us as spiritual beings. So why are we walking around in these corruptible flesh bodies when we have an incorruptible spiritual body that feels no pain and fails to see the effects of age (1 Corinthians 15:35-55)?

The answer to that question lies with us understanding there was an age before this one we presently live in. An age where man existed in spiritual bodies. We presently live in the second Heaven and earth age which we will call the flesh age. Same Heaven, same earth, just a different dispensation of time. With that having been said, let us now document these facts in God’s Word.

Before we start our Bible study, let us ask our Father for wisdom and understanding of His Word, in Jesus name amen.

First, we must understand the word “foundation” has been incorrectly translated several times in the King James Version Bible. For example, the Greek word “themelios” (2310) is translated as “foundation” and literally means ‘a foundation to build upon‘. While the Greek word “katabole” (2602) has also been translated as “foundation” yet it means, “a deposition” which is a “removal from an office or position.”

As you can see we have a major difference between the two translations. So whose removal are we talking about? Satan’s, from his position of power in The World That Was.

Further, “katabole” comes from the base word 2598 meaning the “cast down” or “throw down,” again of Satan from his position of power in The World That Was, The First Earth Age. This is extremely important to understand as this gives us the key to understanding two separate time periods. The “themelios” which is the literal foundation of the world, the very creation as Genesis 1:1 documents. While the “katabole” properly describes the period of time when Satan sinned and fell from the grace of God which occurred after the “themelios” or founding of the world. With that explanation now laid out let us turn our Bible to,

Genesis 1:1
1 “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”

Does it say when the beginning was? Absolutely not. This event did not take place six-thousand years ago, but eons ago. This scripture is describing the “themelios“, the foundation of the Heaven and earth in The World That Was, The First Earth Age.

Further, science tells us the earth is billions of years in age and when we properly understand our Father’s Word there is no contradiction with that statement.

Genesis 1:2
2 “And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

Between verses one and two we have the passing of a very large amount of time. In verse one we are told, “God created the Heaven and the earth” (“themelios”). In verse two we are told, “the earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep“. Essentially this verse is documenting the “katabole” which includes the destruction of The First Earth Age.

This scripture is also where we find the first mistranslation in the King James Version Bible. The word “was” is 1961 in your Strong’s Concordance and being properly translated means, “became“. This change in words completely alters the scriptures. The word“was” implies that God created the earth void which we know is not accurate and we will completely document that fact as we move through this study.

While the word “became” stipulates an event caused the earth to ‘become without form and void’. That event was the “katabole“, the “deposition” or “cast down” of Satan from his position of power in The First Earth Age.

Our Father did not create the earth “without form” (tôhû in Hebrew) which is word 8414 in your Strong’s, meaning, “a desolation“. Neither did He create the earth “void” (bôhû in Hebrew 922) meaning, “an undistinguishable ruin“, but it did “become” that way because of the fall of Satan. So verse two properly translated means, we have a world that ‘became a desolation, became an undistinguishable ruin‘. If it became void then it was something else before, God’s Word states the world was created as a habitable paradise.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

AmericanChristian91

Regular Member
May 24, 2007
1,068
205
34
California
✟27,446.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Same with evolution. They really needed something to prove God didn't create us, they took some fossils and did some dating... there it was!!!

Um the theory of evolution was not a product of atheism. When he first introduced the theory of evolution Darwin was not an Agnostic yet.

There has also been some christian backing towards the theory of evolution since its early days.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

AmericanChristian91

Regular Member
May 24, 2007
1,068
205
34
California
✟27,446.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I'm sickened that people who call themselves Christian go to such lengths to fit evolution into the Bible.

We are not trying to fit evolution into the Bible.

Just like we don't try to shove in modern medicine modern astronomy and the Atomic Bomb into the Bible.

For good reason there are many things that exist the Bible does not mention, and that is fine.
 
Upvote 0