Did God change his mind?

[_Dave_]

No, everyone knows the point of the flood. It is simply a fact that God first was going to destroy all life, but then decided to extend grace to Noah, the same thing with the story of Lot.

No. God did not intend to destroy all life. He intended to destroy all wicked, corrupted life, so that the savior would not be born from corrupted seed.

The story of the flood is not simply vengeance by God against wicked people. If that were true all our lives would have been snuffed out long before this. It's a story of the Redeemer.

God knew from the beginning of time that His Son would be the redeemer. In Gen 3:15 God is talking to Satan, to whom he said the seed of the woman would "bruise thy head." He's telling Satan in advance that he loses, that a Savior would defeat him and redeem mankind back to being able to commune with God again.

So, and this is very important to understanding much of the Old Testament, Satan set out with an agenda to utterly corrupt the line of the incarnate Savior. His plan was to make man so wicked that God could not bring forth the Savior from a human line. However, God thwarted every attempt by Satan to accomplish this.

He did this most notably by saving out Noah and his family to continue a pure line to Jesus. Also, by protecting and saving Israel from the famine and giving them asylum in Egypt, and then later by protecting them from Pharaoh and giving them the promised land. Also, by engineering the Jeconiah event; which is alluded to in the book of Ruth. And, right up to Jesus' birth by saving Him from Herod.

Every single step along the way the line to Christ could have been cut off, with no Christ being born, and Satan winning. But, God is in charge, and we know that Satan does not win.

The story of the flood is a clear, unambiguous message from God that He would destroy everything and start completely over with the last remaining pure ancestor of the Lord if he had to. Any other interpretation makes God capricious and a liar all the way from Gen 3:15 on.

And there is no way that God was taken completely by surprise by Noah's faithfulness just as he was ready to unleash the waters; and that it caused Him to all of a sudden get the bright idea of, hey, Noah, how about you build a large boat for you and your family since you've been such a good guy. And, gee, why didn't I ever notice you before this?

No. If God had wanted to start over from scratch he could easily have done it any time beginning with killing Adam and Eve and creating a new starter pair. But He didn't. He planned the flood instead.

 

[ewq1938]

No. God did not intend to destroy all life.

Yet that does not match what the scripture states.

Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

There isn't anything about saving anyone until he decides to extend grace to Noah but I have said this once or twice already and posted the verses so this will be my last repetition.

 

[_Dave_]

I have said this once or twice already and posted the verses so this will be my last repetition.

Thank you. I appreciate your graciousness. We can agree amicably to disagree.

 

[ewq1938]

Thank you. I appreciate your graciousness. We can agree amicably to disagree.

Thank you as well.

 

[1213]

There was no Ark when ....

That is true. But when the flood came, Noah was in the ark and so, he was not on the surface of dry land. And then God destroyed all that were on the surface of dry land, as promised. No changing mind there, if we are accurate.

 

[ewq1938]

That is true. But when the flood came, Noah was in the ark and so, he was not on the surface of dry land.

That is irrelevant. God was killing most animals (including birds) and all humans at first no matter where they were before he decided to spare one family and a bunch of animals.

 

[Neostarwcc]

That is irrelevant. God was killing most animals (including birds) and all humans at first no matter where they were before he decided to spare one family and a bunch of animals.

I wish Atheists could post here so that they can comment on how crazy we sound.

Anyway you're right God was killing off everything except for one righteous family. But did God change his mind about Noahs family or did he plan to spare them all along?

 

[_Dave_]

OK. I'll try with an analogy.

Farmer Brown has a herd of pigs. A degenerative genetic disorder sweeps through the herd that has affected every single pig except one.

Farmer Brown thinks to himself, dang, my herd is a mess. I'm going to slaughter all my pigs to wipe out the genetic disorder so I can start over and get a clean herd. But I've got the one that is still good, so I will save it out from the slaughter, and it will be my starter pig.

Question: Did Farmer Brown all of a sudden change his mind as he was about to enact the slaughter, but was surprised to discover the one genetically clean pig and decided not to kill it? Or, did he make the slaughter plan all along knowing he was going to have the one clean pig left to start over with?

This works because Farmer Brown knows his pigs. He's been observing every single one from birth. He knows which were corrupted in their ancestry, and which ones were clean. Because he is a good, observant farmer who knows his herd, he's known all along that there was one special pig that was not corrupted.

 

[Neostarwcc]

OK. I'll try with an analogy.

Farmer Brown has a herd of pigs. A degenerative genetic disorder sweeps through the herd that has affected every single pig except one.

Farmer Brown thinks to himself, dang, my herd is a mess. I'm going to slaughter all my pigs to wipe out the genetic disorder so I can start over and get a clean herd. But I've got the one that is still good, so I will save it out from the slaughter, and it will be my starter pig.

Question: Did Farmer Brown all of a sudden change his mind as he was about to enact the slaughter, but was surprised to discover the one genetically clean pig and decided not to kill it? Or, did he make the slaughter plan all along knowing he was going to have the one clean pig left to start over with?

This works because Farmer Brown knows his pigs. He's been observing every single one from birth. He knows which were corrupted in their ancestry, and which ones were clean. Because he is a good, observant farmer who knows his herd, he's known all along that there was one special pig that was not corrupted.

Thank you that makes a lot more sense. So God knew all along that he was going to save Noah and bring about the covenant of Abraham ..etc. And he found one righteous person so he was like "Okay I'll spare him" makes a lot more sense thank you.

 

[_Dave_]

Thank you that makes a lot more sense. So God knew all along that he was going to save Noah and bring about the covenant of Abraham ..etc. And he found one righteous person so he was like "Okay I'll spare him" makes a lot more sense thank you.

You're welcome. That's my interpretation anyway.

I find it hard to believe that a God who knows every single human from the beginning of time before he or she is even "knit in the womb" wouldn't know in advance that Noah's family had not been corrupted by the Gen 6 nephilim.

 

[ewq1938]

I wish Atheists could post here so that they can comment on how crazy we sound.

Anyway you're right God was killing off everything except for one righteous family. But did God change his mind about Noahs family or did he plan to spare them all along?

According to what He wrote, he first wanted to kill everyone but after that initial thought, he decides to extend grace to Noah. That's what we have written and it matches the story of Lot as well. People just believe God can't change his mind despite plenty of evidence that he has.

Ex 32:14 So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.
NASB

 

[ewq1938]

OK. I'll try with an analogy.

Farmer Brown has a herd of pigs. A degenerative genetic disorder sweeps through the herd that has affected every single pig except one.

Farmer Brown thinks to himself, dang, my herd is a mess. I'm going to slaughter all my pigs to wipe out the genetic disorder so I can start over and get a clean herd. But I've got the one that is still good, so I will save it out from the slaughter, and it will be my starter pig.

The problem here is that Noah was not sinless. He was worthy of destruction just as anyone else was. The analogy would be more like this:

Farmer Brown has a herd of pigs. A degenerative spiritual disorder sweeps through the herd that has affected every single pig.

Farmer Brown thinks to himself, dang, my herd is a mess I wish I never created these hogs. I'm going to slaughter all my pigs to wipe out the spiritual disorder. But on second hand there is one family of hogs that are not as bad as the rest. I will extend grace to them and not destroy them with the others.


This closer matches the actual text.

 

[_Dave_]

The problem here is that Noah was not sinless. He was worthy of destruction just as anyone else was. The analogy would be more like this:

Farmer Brown has a herd of pigs. A degenerative spiritual disorder sweeps through the herd that has affected every single pig.

Farmer Brown thinks to himself, dang, my herd is a mess I wish I never created these hogs. I'm going to slaughter all my pigs to wipe out the spiritual disorder. But on second hand there is one family of hogs that are not as bad as the rest. I will extend grace to them and not destroy them with the others.


This closer matches the actual text.

So, Ewq, here we are again. LOL.

The problem here is that Noah was not sinless. He was worthy of destruction just as anyone else was.

Right. If God brought on the flood only because of man's sin, then Noah should have gone swimming too. But the way that Gen 6 starts out it is very clear that the wickedness of man was because of the breeding with non-humans and a corruption of the genetic line that eventually would have to descend to Christ ... but God could not let that happen. God knew that Noah's ancestry was uncorrupted, unlike all the others. That's why he saved him out.

This closer matches the actual text.

Only if one takes a very narrow view and ignores not only the whole counsel of God, but downgrades one of God's most important attributes -- his immutability -- to something much less than the God of the Bible.

Let me ask you some straight-up questions, Ewq.

1. Do you believe that God has His eye on you right now?
2. Do you believe that God knows, right now, as of this minute, that you are a born-again believer?
3. Do you believe that 10 years from now God will be totally surprised to discover that you were, as of today, a born-again believer? That for those 10 years He didn't even know you were saved?

I'm definitely curious to hear your answers to those questions.

 

[ewq1938]

Right. If God brought on the flood only because of man's sin, then Noah should have gone swimming too. But the way that Gen 6 starts out it is very clear that the wickedness of man was because of the breeding with non-humans and a corruption of the genetic line that eventually would have to descend to Christ ... but God could not let that happen. God knew that Noah's ancestry was uncorrupted, unlike all the others. That's why he saved him out.

Yet God does not list that as a reason to kill everyone. He lists this:

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.


All men were wicked and has evil thoughts and he wanted to kill all at first. I also don't believe only 8 people had no "fallen angel" DNA.

Only if one takes a very narrow view and ignores not only the whole counsel of God, but downgrades one of God's most important attributes -- his immutability -- to something much less than the God of the Bible.

Yet in the opposite, men do not see what God says in the bible and they create a version of God that God did not describe. God says he changes his mind, and he shows us him doing so. I know you disagree but I read and see these things so I accept them and it doesn't downgrade any part of God because these things come from God himself.

I'm definitely curious to hear your answers to those questions.

I don't answer things that are too personal in nature.

 

[_Dave_]

I don't answer things that are too personal in nature.

I apologize. Please allow me to change my questions to being more general in nature.

1. Do you believe that God has His eye on anyone right now?
2. Do you believe that God knows, right now, as of this minute, that someone, anyone, is a born-again believer?
3. Do you believe that 10 years from now God will be totally surprised to discover that someone, anyone, was, as of today, a born-again believer? That for those 10 years He didn't even know that that someone was saved?