Did fallen angels break our code?

mindlight · Jun 6, 2020

Jipsah said:
"Enoch is mostly hogwash, and it doesn't speak of dNA in any case. That is simply eisegesis from a writing that is untrustworthy to begin with.

Why? Old reliable Y-Pestis (aka Black Plague) is far worse than any of the corona strains. So was Spanish flu, by orders of magnitude. As plagues go, Covid 19 is pretty lame. If that's the worst we ever have to deal with then we're in good shape.

Enoch was clearly in widespread use in Qumran. It is not in the same league as the true canon of scripture which I accept as the 66 books of the Protestant canon. It adds a definite context of how Jews before the anti Jesus brigade interpreted Genesis 6 though

The Sars-Cov-2 virus seems very contagious being focused in our upper respiratory system. It has taken a full global quarantine to contain it. But yes it is deadly only for a narrower group than the Spanish flu and Black Death. But these are early days yet and it appears there is no containment in Africa, India and South America

mindlight · Jun 6, 2020

mmksparbud said:
This is baloney not actually taught or believed by the Hebrew writers of the bible!! It is men who were in authority, such a religious leaders, Priests, even, who went against God by marrying women who were not followers of God. There were no half angel have human beings! God has always hated marriage between believers and non-believers. Angels are not our kind! We were created lower than the angels, Jesus became lower than the angels to become human. God gave a command--"after their kind." We can not produce non-human babies!
This idea assumes many things, chief of which is that angels, whom Jesus says can not marry, meaning they have no sex, even have the genatalia and actual sperm that is compatible to human DNA for that to happen! It can't!! God said it can't! It assumes that God actually made angels with the required "equipment" and DNA to mate with us, it assumes that "There were giants in those days" means that these were outside of normal beings instead of just what it says---There were giants in those days and also afterwards. Nothing in the bible says a thing about the height of Adam and Eve. They assume them to be of normal modern day man and that therefore those giants were something not human!!---All assumptions and all wrong! Adam and Eve were created perfect in every way, perfect brains, perfect bodies. They were not 5-6 feet tall---they were created very tall. That trait was passed on by genetics to all their offspring. It came through with Noah and his family and dwindled along with how long they lived after the flood. There were pockets of those traits when people were scattered--handed down to Goliath and his people, to the very tall today.
Just like as in the very short---the very tall are not products of angels and humans---it is genetics! And all of it human. God stated why He destroyed the earth in the flood. Only Noah followed Him, all others were violent, evil. They used their magnificent intelligence for nothing but evil. Nothing to do with blood lines at any time!

The Massoretic text was composed later than the apostolic era and clearly texts that fitted the rabbis readings were chosen over those that affirmed Christian understandings of Jewish Messianic prophecy. Regarding the aversion to angels 2 events might explain the Jewish attempt to underplay their role.

1) The angel sent to execute the Christian persecutor Herod Agrippa
2) The angel sent ( in Christian tradition) to tell the church to get out of Jerusalem and flee to Pella before the Romans destroyed the place.

Basically no Jew would want to overstate the signifigance of angels if they only contradicted their interpretations. Pharisees generally believed in angels but Saducees did not. But the presence of so many texts from 1 Enoch in Qumran indicates that Essenes definitely did believe in them

mindlight · Jun 6, 2020

BobRyan said:
In Matt 22 Jesus said Angels do not have the biology/function to form family relationships even within their own species - let alone with other species.

Genesis 6 does not mention angels at all.

And the so-called book of Enoch is not even a Hebrew book it is only found in Greek and may have also existed in an Aramaic form that was used by Jews in Israel at the time of Rome.

it was written after the Hebrew Bible not before it.

Angels can manifest in human form. In heaven there is no procreation. But it seems they could abuse their powers on earth

Enoch could have been part of an older oral tradition and was quoted in Jude.

mmksparbud · Jun 6, 2020

mindlight said:
The Massoretic text was composed later than the apostolic era and clearly texts that fitted the rabbis readings were chosen over those that affirmed Christian understandings of Jewish Messianic prophecy. Regarding the aversion to angels 2 events might explain the Jewish attempt to underplay their role.

1) The angel sent to execute the Christian persecutor Herod Agrippa
2) The angel sent ( in Christian tradition) to tell the church to get out of Jerusalem and flee to Pella before the Romans destroyed the place.

Basically no Jew would want to overstate the signifigance of angels if they only contradicted their interpretations. Pharisees generally believed in angels but Saducees did not. But the presence of so many texts from 1 Enoch in Qumran indicates that Essenes definitely did believe in them

mindlight said:
Angels can manifest in human form. In heaven there is no procreation. But it seems they could abuse their powers on earth

Enoch could have been part of an older oral tradition and was quoted in Jude.

Have you read the book of Enoch? Do you realize how tall those giants are said to be in Enoch? They were 4,500 feet tall!! Some believers state that was an error and should read---450 feet tall. Which still makes them taller than the statue of liberty at only 151 ft tall!! Can you imagine the weight of that? Can you perhaps picture the size of the baby that would have to be to be delivered? An elephant baby weighs in about 200 lbs. One of those giant babies would have been how big? You really think that a human woman could give birth to such a thing? A short person today who has a normal sized child has to have it by C-section and their pregnancy is considered dangerous. Seriously? Just how tall were those fallen angels, for their children' were 450 feet tall and generally speaking, children tend to grow taller than the parents!?? If those angels were "proportionally "equipped" for their height---do you really think any woman would survive such an assault??

Have not read any of the targums? At the Babylonian exile, many Hebrews lost their language and spoke mostly or only Aramaic. Scribes wrote the Aramaic interpretation of the Hebrew bible, using the very same techniques and rules that applied to copoyi8ng of the scriptures. At temple, the Rabbis would first read the traditional Hebrew, but then the Aramaic translation.

VI. And Noach was a son of five hundred years, and Noach begat Shem, Cham, and Japheth. And it was when the sons of men had begun to multiply upon the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of the mighty[32] saw the daughters of men that they were beautiful, and took to them wives of all whom they pleased.[33] And the Lord said, This evil generation shall not stand before me for ever, because they are flesh, and their works are evil. A term (or length) will I give them, an hundred and twenty years, if they may be converted. Giants were in the earth in those days; and also when, after that the sons of the mighty had gone in unto the daughters of men, there were born from them giants who from of old were men of name.
TgOnk Gen. 1-6

mindlight · Jun 7, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Have you read the book of Enoch? Do you realize how tall those giants are said to be in Enoch? They were 4,500 feet tall!! Some believers state that was an error and should read---450 feet tall. Which still makes them taller than the statue of liberty at only 151 ft tall!! Can you imagine the weight of that? Can you perhaps picture the size of the baby that would have to be to be delivered? An elephant baby weighs in about 200 lbs. One of those giant babies would have been how big? You really think that a human woman could give birth to such a thing? A short person today who has a normal sized child has to have it by C-section and their pregnancy is considered dangerous. Seriously? Just how tall were those fallen angels, for their children' were 450 feet tall and generally speaking, children tend to grow taller than the parents!?? If those angels were "proportionally "equipped" for their height---do you really think any woman would survive such an assault??

Have not read any of the targums? At the Babylonian exile, many Hebrews lost their language and spoke mostly or only Aramaic. Scribes wrote the Aramaic interpretation of the Hebrew bible, using the very same techniques and rules that applied to copoyi8ng of the scriptures. At temple, the Rabbis would first read the traditional Hebrew, but then the Aramaic translation.

VI. And Noach was a son of five hundred years, and Noach begat Shem, Cham, and Japheth. And it was when the sons of men had begun to multiply upon the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of the mighty[32] saw the daughters of men that they were beautiful, and took to them wives of all whom they pleased.[33] And the Lord said, This evil generation shall not stand before me for ever, because they are flesh, and their works are evil. A term (or length) will I give them, an hundred and twenty years, if they may be converted. Giants were in the earth in those days; and also when, after that the sons of the mighty had gone in unto the daughters of men, there were born from them giants who from of old were men of name.
TgOnk Gen. 1-6

The book of Enoch is not mainstream canonical for precisely the reasons you outline. Some of its claims are clearly fanciful. But it did represent a tradition that was influential among certain groups of Jews. The Babylonian targums do not represent the thinking of all Jews. As the saying goes for every 2 Jews you will have 3 opinions. Also I believe you underplay the ways in which the later Rabbis chose traditions that favoured their own interpretations. Read a Sadducee and angels do not exist, read a Pharisee or an Essene and they clearly do.

The relevant verses in Genesis 6 read as follows:

"the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful , and they married any of them they chose....The Nephilim were on the earth in those days - and also afterwards - when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

The word for Nephilim in Hebrew means "fallen ones". The translation of "sons of God" refers to spirit beings as the same word is used in Job 1:6;2:1 translated angels. Josephus interpreting the Jewish tradition at about the time of Jesus also affirms this understanding:

"For many angels of God coupled with women , and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength; for the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom Grecians called giants." Jewish Antiquities Book 1, Chapter 3:73

Josephus has no particular axe to grind here and is just repeating what he regards as the mainstream tradition of the time which was that they were angels.

The Nephilim, the offspring of this ceremonial prostitution between men and 'gods' were men of great size and power.

From Numbers 13:33
"We saw the Nephilim (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."

These eyewitnesses probably allowed their fear to exaggerate what they saw but Caleb deliberately chose this hill country as his own possession because it was the hardest to conquer. Joshua 14:6-15

mindlight · Jun 7, 2020

nonaeroterraqueous said:
No, if you follow the narrative of the Book of Enoch, then Noah's lineage was unaffected (his patrilineal descent is listed all the way back to Adam. The angels were male forms who married female humans. Therefore, descent from one of these relationships would not leave an unbroken lineage back to Adam through the fathers' side). Not only that, but the fallen angels have been imprisoned ever since, which means that this deed has not been repeated.

Unless other fallen angels fiddled afterwards as the "and afterwards" statement in Genesis 6 and the account in Numbers 13 seem to imply

mmksparbud · Jun 7, 2020

mindlight said:
The book of Enoch is not mainstream canonical for precisely the reasons you outline. Some of its claims are clearly fanciful. But it did represent a tradition that was influential among certain groups of Jews. The Babylonian targums do not represent the thinking of all Jews. As the saying goes for every 2 Jews you will have 3 opinions. Also I believe you underplay the ways in which the later Rabbis chose traditions that favoured their own interpretations. Read a Sadducee and angels do not exist, read a Pharisee or an Essene and they clearly do.

The relevant verses in Genesis 6 read as follows:

"the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful , and they married any of them they chose....The Nephilim were on the earth in those days - and also afterwards - when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."

The word for Nephilim in Hebrew means "fallen ones". The translation of "sons of God" refers to spirit beings as the same word is used in Job 1:6;2:1 translated angels. Josephus interpreting the Jewish tradition at about the time of Jesus also affirms this understanding:

"For many angels of God coupled with women , and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength; for the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom Grecians called giants." Jewish Antiquities Book 1, Chapter 3:73

Josephus has no particular axe to grind here and is just repeating what he regards as the mainstream tradition of the time which was that they were angels.

The Nephilim, the offspring of this ceremonial prostitution between men and 'gods' were men of great size and power.

From Numbers 13:33
"We saw the Nephilim (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."

These eyewitnesses probably allowed their fear to exaggerate what they saw but Caleb deliberately chose this hill country as his own possession because it was the hardest to conquer. Joshua 14:6-15

Nephilim means fallen ones----which is not an angel. Fallen referring to men in places of high authority such a Priests who have fallen and gone after women who did not follow the Lord. The idea that it meant angels was not really traditional at all, even among those who did believe in angels. That notion came later. Josephus came years after the crucifixion. The targums came much, much earlier, right after the Babylonian exile. And, as I said, the scribes had to adhere to strict guidelines, just as those who copied the scriptures.
Job is describing a convocation of representatives of other worlds---Satan came as the representative of this world for he had acquired this planet at the fall and came as the literal god of this world which the NT says he is.
Angels have been known to appear as men several times in the bible---appear does not mean to actually become human. They can impersonate a human, they do not become human with human internal organs and genitals! Angels can not create actual life. They only mimic, they possessed pigs`---they did not become pigs. They did the same with humans as well. God's angels do not posses people or animals, though they can command them, as the talking donkey.
These people say that God destroyed them at the flood---yet they appear after the flood, so obviously---not true. God destroyed the world for its evil and violence, not marred bloodlines. There is no mention of bloodlines in Gen 6.
People, even when presented with other just as valid interpretation, prefer to cling to the angels having sex with women thing. I guess it is much more titillating then actual tall men in authority that married women who did not follow God. Really, these were fallen angels---they didn't care for God's rules--but they coime here and "marry" human women??! That is a religious ceremony. Why would they do that, they don't care about any rules, God's nor man's! Nephilim are still called men---men of renown, nowhere are they called half man and angel hybrids. The pre-flood peoples were just tall---taller than us, just as they lived much longer than us. There was no fiddling after the flood either, just genetic pockets of tall people, for even the land in that area produced large everything--like the grape cluster that required 2 people. Alaska grows huge produce also, even today.
Oh, well, people will believe whatever they want.

Andrewn · Jun 7, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Nephilim means fallen ones----which is not an angel. Fallen referring to men in places of high authority such a Priests who have fallen and gone after women who did not follow the Lord.

Do you understand Nephilim to be the sons of God, families of the daughters of people, or offspring of the marriage? I don't think Gen 6 is clear about this but here is what I get from the OT:

1) They were mighty and famous (Gen 6:4).

2) They were hulks (Num 13:32-33).

3) They “went down to Sheòl in their weapons of war, and had their swords laid under their heads,” probably meaning that the manner of their death and burial was in keeping with the violence and bloodshed which was the occupation of their life (Eze 32:27).

They clearly lived before and after the Flood, which in itself contradicts believers in angel-human hybrids.

mmksparbud · Jun 7, 2020

Andrewn said:
Do you understand Nephilim to be the sons of God, families of the daughters of people, or offspring of the marriage? I don't think Gen 6 is clear about this but here is what I get from the OT:

1) They were mighty and famous (Gen 6:4).

2) They were hulks (Num 13:32-33).

3) They “went down to Sheòl in their weapons of war, and had their swords laid under their heads,” probably meaning that the manner of their death and burial was in keeping with the violence and bloodshed which was the occupation of their life (Eze 32:27).

They clearly lived before and after the Flood, which in itself contradicts believers in angel-human hybrids.[/QUOTE

]Nephilim are considered to be the offspring -- They became mighty men. Sons of God people take to be fallen angels, but, as I said, there are plenty of reasons to believe they were authority figures, men who followed God, possibly Priests marrying non-believers. God has always warned against that. It still says that the Nephilim became mighty men of renown---probably inheriting the position of their fathers, but the passage still says they were men---did not call them half breeds of any sort.
Adam and Eve were tall, brought forth tall children, probably many even taller than then they. If you look up tall people, they are all over the place---and I'm not talking about those with acromegaly or some other syndrome---just vey tall people. They are not the product of fallen angels. Entirely and totally human.
And BTW---a lot of angels are described as having wings---Lucifer had 2---he was a covering cherub. The earthly cherubim over the earthly ark are described as having 2 wings. But there are some with 6, the seraphim. Doesn't say they all have wings. So how come there is no mention of these Nephilim ever being born with wings? They just inherit the tall genes? Makes no sense.

ChetSinger · Jun 7, 2020

mindlight said:
Shortly before the flood Genesis and books like Enoch, that did not make it into the Protestant canon but are accepted by other Christian churches, mention an event that may have exacerbated the breakage in creation and in the human condition. Angels found ways to breed with humans and played with our DNA to produce giants and superheroes into human literature and culture and into the DNA pool. Many of these were wiped out but even after the flood there is the account in Joshua of Caleb taking on the giants of Hebron or in 1 Samuel 17 of David tackling Goliath.

Enoch is described in Genesis as one of only two men in the bible along with Elijah to never die and one who is supposed to have visited heaven and returned before he was finally taken up there. The book of Enoch did not make the Protestant canon but it is in the canon of other churches. It says it was written by Enoch but it was more probably written down after the flood having been shared from a preflood oral tradition which was not perfectly recalled, there are some big and obvious errors in it. It describes 200 angels led by Azaĺiel who were in part rebels from God and in part interested in promoting humanity at Gods expense. Basically the story echoes the account in Genesis of the Nephilim. The idea being that angels fiddled with human DNA breaking its original design and harmony further exaccerbating the effects of the fall.

So did angels break our code thus making us more vulnerable to plagues like that produced by Sars-Cov-2?

In my studies I've come to agree with almost everything you wrote, although I won't hang my hat on every one of Enoch's details because they haven't been corroborated by scripture.

Regarding your last sentence my answer is 'no'. Noah and his sons had no angelic DNA because his line is traced all the way back to Adam. So angelic influence was wiped out by the flood. And as you said, the post-flood nephilim were also killed off from Joshua through David. So I think ourselves and every one around us are fully human.

Btw, did you know that the transfiguration occurred on the same mountain, Mt. Hermon, where according to Jewish tradition was the location where those angels in Genesis 6 came down to earth? It was considered an evil mountain and was the same location where Jesus threw down the final gauntlet to the powers of darkness: "on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it".

mindlight · Jun 7, 2020

ChetSinger said:
Regarding your last sentence my answer is 'no'. Noah and his sons had no angelic DNA because his line is traced all the way back to Adam. So angelic influence was wiped out by the flood. And as you said, the post-flood nephilim were also killed off from Joshua through David.

The male line was clean but what about the women they married? Since there is no biblical record we do not know.

Btw, did you know that the transfiguration occurred on the same mountain, Mt. Hermon, where according to Jewish tradition was the location where those angels in Genesis 6 came down to earth? It was considered an evil mountain and was the same location where Jesus threw down the final gauntlet to the powers of darkness: "on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it".

That is so cool!!!!!

mindlight · Jun 7, 2020

Andrewn said:
They clearly lived before and after the Flood, which in itself contradicts believers in angel-human hybrids.

No because you cannot assume that every angel fell at the same time. If there is a continuous stream of falls then this will occur through history. But the situation just before the flood was clearly extraordinarily bad.

Dkh587 · Jun 7, 2020

eleos1954 said:
this is not so .... angels are a different kind of being and did not breed with humans ... in fact ... in the bible it is not mentioned anywhere that angels can procreate.

Angels are spiritual beings; therefore, it's not possible that they can produce offspring.

Nephilim were descendants of Seth ...

the "sons of God" are defined as the righteous line of Seth (Genesis 5) that disobeyed God and married women from the line of Cain. The women who married the line of Seth followed other gods and rejected full allegiance to God. The offspring, as a result, "fell away" and turned to the system of the world.

Genesis 6

4The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and afterward as well—when the sons of God had relations with the daughters of men. And they bore them children who became the mighty (strong) men of old, men of renown.

MEN ... not angels.

The phrase "the sons of God" only refers to divine beings in the Old Testament.

Semper-Fi · Jun 7, 2020

9 seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel:

and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’

The Bible never mentions an angel named Phanuel,
let alone an angel who is set over the repentance
of those who inherit eternal life. What blasphemy!

That statement in itself contradicts everything the
Word of God teaches. We read in 1st Timothy 2:5
that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between
God and men, not some angel named Phanuel...

Broken Fence · Jun 7, 2020

mindlight said:
Shortly before the flood Genesis and books like Enoch, that did not make it into the Protestant canon but are accepted by other Christian churches, mention an event that may have exacerbated the breakage in creation and in the human condition. Angels found ways to breed with humans and played with our DNA to produce giants and superheroes into human literature and culture and into the DNA pool. Many of these were wiped out but even after the flood there is the account in Joshua of Caleb taking on the giants of Hebron or in 1 Samuel 17 of David tackling Goliath.

Enoch is described in Genesis as one of only two men in the bible along with Elijah to never die and one who is supposed to have visited heaven and returned before he was finally taken up there. The book of Enoch did not make the Protestant canon but it is in the canon of other churches. It says it was written by Enoch but it was more probably written down after the flood having been shared from a preflood oral tradition which was not perfectly recalled, there are some big and obvious errors in it. It describes 200 angels led by Azaĺiel who were in part rebels from God and in part interested in promoting humanity at Gods expense. Basically the story echoes the account in Genesis of the Nephilim. The idea being that angels fiddled with human DNA breaking its original design and harmony further exaccerbating the effects of the fall.

So did angels break our code thus making us more vulnerable to plagues like that produced by Sars-Cov-2?

Samyaza is the leader smile.

ChetSinger · Jun 7, 2020

mindlight said:
The male line was clean but what about the women they married? Since there is no biblical record we do not know.

Upon reflection, yes, I agree. But God was so determined to kill those guys off that I'll presume he was thorough and not be troubled by it.

mindlight · Jun 7, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Nephilim means fallen ones----which is not an angel. Fallen referring to men in places of high authority such a Priests who have fallen and gone after women who did not follow the Lord. The idea that it meant angels was not really traditional at all, even among those who did believe in angels. That notion came later. Josephus came years after the crucifixion. The targums came much, much earlier, right after the Babylonian exile. And, as I said, the scribes had to adhere to strict guidelines, just as those who copied the scriptures.
Job is describing a convocation of representatives of other worlds---Satan came as the representative of this world for he had acquired this planet at the fall and came as the literal god of this world which the NT says he is.
Angels have been known to appear as men several times in the bible---appear does not mean to actually become human. They can impersonate a human, they do not become human with human internal organs and genitals! Angels can not create actual life. They only mimic, they possessed pigs`---they did not become pigs. They did the same with humans as well. God's angels do not posses people or animals, though they can command them, as the talking donkey.
These people say that God destroyed them at the flood---yet they appear after the flood, so obviously---not true. God destroyed the world for its evil and violence, not marred bloodlines. There is no mention of bloodlines in Gen 6.
People, even when presented with other just as valid interpretation, prefer to cling to the angels having sex with women thing. I guess it is much more titillating then actual tall men in authority that married women who did not follow God. Really, these were fallen angels---they didn't care for God's rules--but they coime here and "marry" human women??! That is a religious ceremony. Why would they do that, they don't care about any rules, God's nor man's! Nephilim are still called men---men of renown, nowhere are they called half man and angel hybrids. The pre-flood peoples were just tall---taller than us, just as they lived much longer than us. There was no fiddling after the flood either, just genetic pockets of tall people, for even the land in that area produced large everything--like the grape cluster that required 2 people. Alaska grows huge produce also, even today.
Oh, well, people will believe whatever they want.

You appear quite determined to deny the overwhelming tradition on this and the multiple sources that can be cited to affirm the view that sons of god refers to angels. The following quote from Wikipedia should give you multiple contradictory sources to your view:

All early sources refer to the "sons of heaven" as angels. From the third century BCE onwards, references are found in the Enochic literature, the Dead Sea Scrolls (the Genesis Apocryphon, the Damascus Document, 4Q180), Jubilees, the Testament of Reuben, 2 Baruch, Josephus, and the book of Jude (compare with 2 Peter 2). For example: 1 Enoch 7:2 "And when the angels, (3) the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children." Some Christian apologists, such as Tertullian and especially Lactantius, shared this opinion.
The earliest statement in a secondary commentary explicitly interpreting this to mean that angelic beings mated with humans can be traced to the rabbinical Targum Pseudo-Jonathan and it has since become especially commonplace in modern Christian commentaries. This line of interpretation finds additional support in the text of Genesis 6:4, which juxtaposes the sons of God (male gender, divine nature) with the daughters of men (female gender, human nature). From this parallelism it could be inferred that the sons of God are understood as some superhuman beings.[24]
The New American Bible commentary draws a parallel to the Epistle of Jude and the statements set forth in Genesis, suggesting that the Epistle refers implicitly to the paternity of Nephilim as heavenly beings who came to earth and had sexual intercourse with women.[25] The footnotes of the Jerusalem Bible suggest that the biblical author intended the Nephilim to be an "anecdote of a superhuman race".[26]
Some Christian commentators have argued against this view, citing Jesus's statement that angels do not marry.[27] Others believe that Jesus was only referring to angels in heaven.[28]
Evidence cited in favor of the fallen angels interpretation includes the fact that the phrase "the sons of God" (Hebrew: בְּנֵי הָֽאֱלֹהִים; or "sons of the gods") is used twice outside of Genesis chapter 6, in the Book of Job (1:6 and 2:1) where the phrase explicitly references angels. The Septuagint manuscript Codex Alexandrinus reading of Genesis 6:2 renders this phrase as "the angels of God" while Codex Vaticanus reads "sons".[29]
Targum Pseudo-Jonathan identifies the Nephilim as Shemihaza and the angels in the name list from 1 Enoch.[30]

Nephilim - Wikipedia

The view to the contrary comes afterwards and especially from Orthodox Judaism which was formed in response to the success of the Christians not before it

Broken Fence · Jun 7, 2020

Andrewn said:
Right. The "sons of god" are believed by some to be bad angels who married good girls and gave birth to nephilim (I'll call this view #A) and by others, me included, to be good men who married bad girls (I'll call this view #B). You subscribe to the first view and I will not get into arguments against it bec they have been addressed in the other thread.

You don't believe that advanced knowledge / science is part of God's plan?

I agree.

Good observation. In view #A, that you subscribe to, the nephilim are considered angel-human offspring. These presumably died in the Flood. How do we get nephilim after the Flood?

The Flood clearly didn't wipe out sinfulness from human nature. People started sinning again after the Flood. So, what did the Flood accomplish?

Almost every ancient society has a flood story. Some nephlim survived. Gilgamesh makes that pretty clear.

mindlight · Jun 7, 2020

Broken Fence said:
Almost every ancient society has a flood story. Some nephlim survived. Gilgamesh makes that pretty clear.

Why would you trust the Gilgamesh account over the bible? If the source of the Nephilim was angelic - human unions then they could have all been wiped out by the flood and yet still appear later because new fallen angels made new unions. Since no Nephilim survived the flood this is the more plausible explanation of the reoccurrence of Nephilim in Numbers and Joshua.

Broken Fence · Jun 7, 2020

mindlight said:
Why would you trust the Gilgamesh account over the bible? If the source of the Nephilim was angelic - human unions then they could have all been wiped out by the flood and yet still appear later because new fallen angels made new unions. Since no 'sons of Seth' survived the flood this is the more plausible explanation of the reoccurrence of Nephilim in Numbers and Joshua.

Don't think so they were imprisoned to watch their seed die out. The Gilgamesh story though full of superstition does not disagree with the Bible.

Makes perfect sense that is why the Israelites fought giants and carried giant grape bunches.

Food for thought if sexual immoral angel's breed with animals you would get dinosaurs.
We have found their bones where did they come from?

Did fallen angels break our code?

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See in the dark

See in the dark

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See in the dark

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God with us!

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See in the dark

God with us!

See in the dark

God with us!

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