Did Eve choose the tree of knowledge over God?

[~Anastasia~]

A friendly question, or comment. To me the exact wording seems to show Adam and Eve in equal wrong in distrusting God, breaking faith --

4“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

That Eve went first isn't key it seems to me. Adam equally choose to distrust God. So Eve wasnt more, but just equally, in this sin.

A good point and one I would agree with. I may be just scattered in conversations but I was only responding since Eve seemed to be the subject, but thank you for bringing that out.

Eve went further in misquoting God's commandment. But essentially the fall was through them both, they both sinned in disobeying God, and I didn't mean to say only Eve did.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[fhansen]

We have all read that a tree of Life and a tree of Knowledge were in Eden.

Did Eve decide to choose, against Gods will, the tree of knowledge?



Also, If God(Perfection) is before the tree of knowledge, is the tree of knowledge an introduction to lie's?

She had to believe a lie/falsehood in order to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. She had to believe that she would benefit, that she would become wise, that she would become like God, in order to proceed with the act. And any choice against God's will is a denial of His godhood, of His divine authority. It's to make oneself God for all practical purposes.

 

[betterorworse]

Not really. It was not a source of bad information, just a bad SOURCE for information. With God the source is as important as the veracity of the knowledge.

Isn't that the same thing?
I mean God made all thing's, so that imply's that God allowed it right?

 

[betterorworse]

She had to believe a lie/falsehood in order to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. She had to believe that she would benefit, that she would become wise, that she would become like God, in order to proceed with the act. And any choice against God's will is a denial of His godhood, of His divine authority. It's to make oneself God for all practical purposes.

So you are saying she did it to prosper herself and Adam? That makes sense.

 

[Dave-W]

Isn't that the same thing?

In our modern mindset it can look that way. But no, it is NOT the same at all before God.

I mean God made all thing's, so that imply's that God allowed it right?

It implies that God set up a test, which they failed.

 

[betterorworse]

It implies that God set up a test, which they failed.

First off, God is so perfect!

Whether God made it a test or not, God knows what He is doing and it happened. So we must fully trust that God gave us all a choice.

 

[betterorworse]

May we all prayer for one another to prosper in God.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I believe the common understanding of the early Church fathers is that the knowledge of good and evil was something that would have been allowed to mankind after they had matured in their relationship with God. God had already planned to grow them. The problem with the disobedience of the fall is that Adam and Eve attempted to grasp for themselves outside of God's will that "perfection/maturity" for themselves. And so it led to an epic fail (fall).

If they had simply waited and trusted God and remained in perfect communion with Him, they would not have been denied maturity/perfection in God.

(I use the word "perfect" here to mean complete/matured - not "sinless" as they were created without sin.)

 

[betterorworse]

I think you have some great point's. With that being said, it makes sense to me that other humans, beside Adam and Eve, would not even exist in fleshly form without the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the serpent.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I think you have some great point's. With that being said, it makes sense to me that other humans, beside Adam and Eve, would not even exist in fleshly form without the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the serpent.

Yes, that is a while other issue. I believe they were told to be fruitful and multiply before the fall though. But it IS another matter that the early Church fathers speculated on in connection to this.

 

[betterorworse]

If we are honest, we admit that God is perfect.


We have so many claiming to be seeking for the truth. If and when that truth is found, it will be God.

 

[~Anastasia~]

If we are honest, we admit that God is perfect.


We have so many claiming to be seeking for the truth. If and when that truth is found, it will be God.

Absolutely.

Well-said.

 

[betterorworse]

It is a thought, that God may be preforming a process, that get's rid of those who belong to evil.

 

[~Anastasia~]

It is a thought, that God may be preforming a process, that get's rid of those who belong to evil.

Or get rid of evil in people - like removing a cancer - in order to restore them. God is agape-love.

We may see this a little differently though.

 

[fhansen]

So you are saying she did it to prosper herself and Adam? That makes sense.

Yes, it's often held by theologians that no one commits sin/evil for the sheer sake of evil-but rather always to obtain some good that they perceive will be greater than what they'd have without the act. In fact, because everything in creation is good to begin with, Augustine could say that the only source of evil is good. Sounds wrong at first but when we thing about it, gluttony is no more than a perversion of our natural, and good, appetite for food, lust is the same for sex, greed can begin with the need for security, pride is said to be "inordinate self-love", self-love also being a good in itself.

Eve's desire to 'be like God' wasn't wrong in itself. In fact, the Church has historically taught that God wants the same for us; our "perfecting" has to do with being molded/transformed into His very image. The problem was that, by disobeying God, they, the creature, essentially denied His godhood and sought to be like Him without Him, apart from Him. And a central message of the New Covenant, which we're here in this world to learn, the hard way if necessary, is "Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5 That's what Adam & Eve didn't get.

 

[betterorworse]

Yes, it's often held by theologians that no one commits sin/evil for the sheer sake of evil-but rather always to obtain some good that they perceive will be greater than what they'd have without the act. In fact, because everything in creation is good to begin with, Augustine could say that the only source of evil is good. Sounds wrong at first but when we thing about it, gluttony is no more than a perversion of our natural, and good, appetite for food, lust is the same for sex, greed can begin with the need for security, pride is said to be "inordinate self-love", self-love also being a good in itself.

Eve's desire to 'be like God' wasn't wrong in itself. In fact, the Church has historically taught that God wants the same for us; our "perfecting" has to do with being molded/transformed into His very image. The problem was that, by disobeying God, they, the creature, essentially denied His godhood and sought to be like Him without Him, apart from Him. And a central message of the New Covenant, which we're here in this world to learn, the hard way if necessary, is "Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5 That's what Adam & Eve didn't get.

Well, God forbid I try to justify wickedness.

 

[betterorworse]

Or get rid of evil in people - like removing a cancer - in order to restore them. God is agape-love.

We may see this a little differently though.

That is a beautiful way to look at it. However, we must also understand that the unforgivable sin is unforgivable.

 

[~Anastasia~]

That is a beautiful way to look at it. However, we must also understand that the unforgivable sin is unforgivable.

This is also true.

God doesn't force us to accept His mercy either.

Although it's hard for me to imagine someone encountering the real Jesus and not desiring to accept His forgiveness. Perhaps there really are such people who love darkness so much that they prefer it.

 

[betterorworse]

This is also true.

God doesn't force us to accept His mercy either.

Although it's hard for me to imagine someone encountering the real Jesus and not desiring to accept His forgiveness. Perhaps there really are such people who love darkness so much that they prefer it.

Proverbs 16:7 When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.

 

[fhansen]

Well, God forbid I try to justiy wickedness.

Well, I think the point is that we must justify wickedness in order to be able to to sin. IOW we must, to some degree, think we have the right, at that moment.