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Did Constantine change the Sabbath to Sunday?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by FEZZILLA, May 25, 2019.

  1. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Constantine didn't change the Sabbath. But then Christians worship on the eighth day of creation, the day after the Sabbath, the day of the Resurrection. The Sabbath is still there, unchanged. It's only folks like the SDA who complain about the Sabbath being changed. Neither Constantine nor the Church changed the Sabbath. Christians figured out worshiping on the day of the Resurrection as an even more important day than the Sabbath.
     
  2. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    :hypno:
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
  3. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    How was it figured?
     
  4. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Holy Tradition. From the practice of the apostles and their successors. We have a clue right in the Scriptures, and confirmation in the Early Church Fathers, and the Didache.
     
  5. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    Where please?
     
  6. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I suspect you already know.
     
  7. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    No, I haven't found any Scriptural support for the first day of the week being:

    .
     
  8. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Well-Known Member

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    The following from the Catholic Encyclopaedia Vol. 4, p. 153 also confirms the deletion of the second Commandment and the change of the fourth.

    “The church, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath of the seventh day of the week to the first made the third commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day.”

    -
    In 1562 the Archbishop declared that tradition now stood above scripture.

    “The authority of the Church is illustrated most clearly by the scriptures, for on one hand she recommends them, declares them to be divine, and offers them to us to be read, and on the other hand, the legal precepts in the scriptures taught by the Lord have ceased by virtue of the same authority.

    The Sabbath, the most glorious day in the law, has been changed into the Lord's day.

    -
    These and other similar matters have not ceased by virtue of Christ's teaching (for He says that He has come to fulfill the law, not to destroy it), but they have been changed by the authority of the Church.” — Gaspare de Posso Archbishop
    of Reggio, Council of Trent.
    -

    the Roman Catholic Church have their
    own version of the Ten Com.
    Is There Idolatry In The Roman Catholic Church?

    They deleted the second Commandment
    and changed God's Sabbath to Sunday
    and split the tenth Commandment into two
    to get back to Ten Commandments
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  9. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    For those of us who do not have physical access to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and have to look up contents alphabetically on line rather than by physical page number, could you please tell us what the alphabetical listing is on page 153 of volume 4 of the Catholic Encyclopedia. Just turn to page 153 of volume 4 and tell us what articles are on that page. Thank you.
     
  10. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I think there was a more practical reason. Jewish Christians kept the Saturday Sabbath because in Israel, Saturday was the holy day, while Sunday was just another work day. But in Gentile societies, Sunday was the holy day, and Saturday was a work day, so Gentile Christians went to worship on Sundays. As the church moved away from Jewish influences, Sunday became the day when the majority of Christians went to worship.

    In more modern societies, where Jewish worship is recognised, Saturday and Sunday evolved as non-work days, and so we get our "weekend". Although I believe that the evolution of our "weekend" (Saturday/Sunday) has its origins in religion, I don't think that anyone got up and decided it by decree.
     
  11. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Well-Known Member

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    Yes that was the fist problem of my search.
    Sorry I to do not have access to a physical
    Catechism of the Catholic Church. I copied
    quotes, but I can not find link I did that from.

    I will continue searching for the source for you.
    The first quote was from the Catechism,
    the others after the - was from elsewhere.
    -
    The first quote would be easy to answer,
    the 7th day Sabbath rest was changed to
    the 8th day of the week. Then they called
    it the Lords day.

    We know that Christ is Lord of the Sabbath.
    -

    The second quote there has no name
    besides the Archbishop [ In 1562]
    -

    The third is a quote from Gaspare de Posso
    Archbishopof Reggio, Council of Trent.
    -

    Again I will try and confirm these quotes are ok.

    The forth quote, talks about almost the same
    thing with links. There is a lot of quotes there,
    I do not endorse the page, I do not think I copied
    above from there. Sorry about my error in posting.

    But you can do a Search for the revised
    ten commandments of the Catholic church
    for verification anywhere online if you want.
    Then compare that to the original bible verses.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  12. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Well-Known Member

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    Sunday - Encyclopedia Volume - Catholic Encyclopedia - Catholic Online

    " The express teaching of Christ and St. Paul prevented the early Christians from falling into the excesses of Jewish Sabbatarianism in the observance of the Sunday, and yet we find St. Cæsarius of Arles in the sixth century teaching that the holy Doctors of the Church had decreed that the whole glory of the Jewish Sabbath had been transferred to the Sunday, and that Christians must keep the Sunday holy in the same way as the Jews had been commanded to keep holy the Sabbath Day."
     
  13. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Well-Known Member

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    "On the Lord's Day come together
    and break bread. And give thanks "

    The bible does not say the Lord's Day is Sunday.
    and breaking bread in the bible is [eating a meal]
    with thanks giving added, to ones belief.

    In the bible the first day of the week is a work day.
     
  14. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Well-Known Member

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    Most every [language] in the world
    has a seventh day Sabbath rest.

    Can anyone name one language that puts
    the rest day other then the 7th day ?
     
  15. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Do you see the general problem that you are quoting quotes of quotes and things get lost in the process. You don't have access to the original texts of what you are quoting so you are relying on others to be perfectly accurate. If I wanted to look up what you quoted I can't because I don't have the original myself. By the way, I made a mistake in refering to the Catechism of the Catholic Church when I intended to refer to the Catholic Encyclopedia, vol 4, page 153. Sorry about that. But when you refered to vol 4 page 153 it was not unreasonable for me to assume you actually had vol 4 in front of you. I can access the Catholic Encyclopedia on line at www.newadvent.com but I need an article name to do that as they don't use page numbers in the online version.

    By the way, a Catechism of the Catholic Church is easy to obtain. You can find them quite often at Goodwill for a buck in paperback.

    And a comparison of the Lutheran Ten Commandments to the Catholic ones to yours to the two Biblical Ten Commandments is interesting. Have you actually done that?
     
  16. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Well-Known Member

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    I do not know the page yet, still looking.
    Sorry in my second referance I said
    Catechism instead of Encyclopedia.

    It might still be in the Catechism of the Catholic
    Church and the Catholic Encyclopedia both, about
    the Sunday into "The Lords day" change.

    If I bought a hard copy, how could I show
    you the original texts ? Easer to let you buy
    a dolor book, then let me know if it is false,
    if you are that insistent in finding the truth.
    -

    Long long time ago.
    The ten Commandments
    Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Ten Commandments

    As I said before

    They deleted the second Commandment
    and changed God's Sabbath to Sunday,
    now refered to as the Lords day. They split
    the tenth Commandment into two
    to get back to Ten Commandments
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  17. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Well-Known Member

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    Sunday - Wikipedia

    Sunday in Christianity[edit]
    Pagan correspondence[edit]

    "In Roman culture, Sunday was the day of the Sun god. In paganism, the Sun was a source of life, giving warmth and illumination to mankind. It was the center of a popular cult among Romans, who would stand at dawn to catch the first rays of sunshine as they prayed.[dubious – discuss]

    The opportunity to spot in the nature-worship of their heathen neighbors a symbolism valid to their own faith was not lost on the Christians. One of the Church fathers, St. Jerome, would declare: "If pagans call [the Lord's Day] [...] the 'day of the sun,' we willingly agree, for today the light of the world is raised, today is revealed the sun of justice with healing in his rays."[7]

    A similar consideration may have influenced the choice of the Christmas date on the day of the winter solstice, whose celebration was part of the Roman cult of the Sun.[dubious – discuss][8] In the same vein, Christian churches have been built and are still being built (as far as possible) with an orientation so that the congregation faced toward the sunrise in the East. Much later, St. Francis would sing in his famous canticle: "Be praised, my Lord, through all your creatures, especially through my lord Brother Sun, who brings the day; and you give light through him. And he is beautiful and radiant in all his splendor! Of you, Most High, he bears the likeness."
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  18. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Well-Known Member

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  19. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's the quote you say came from volume 4 page 153 of the Catholic Encyclopedia that is the real issue. And the question is what actual article is on page 153. I've never seen a Catholic Encyclopedia at Goodwill and my local library does not have one either. BUT it is online for anyone to read. Organized alphabetically by article. Not by volume and page. So the question goes back to you, because you posted these presumed quotes, as to what article or articles they came from. I just want to see if it is so. And without you knowing which article you are quoting from I don't think you really can be sure you have quoted correctly.
     
  20. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Well-Known Member

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    Well I posted a link to the Catechism of the Catholic
    Church, that shows everything I said in question.
    Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Ten Commandments

    Looking at the ten commandments there,

    They deleted the second Commandment
    and changed God's Sabbath to Sunday,
    now referred to as the Lords day. They split
    the tenth Commandment into two
    to get back to Ten Commandments.

    So is this true above or not? If not Is the
    Catechism of the Catholic Church false then?
    Are you saying you do not believe they
    changed the ten commandments ?
    You now need to prove they are wrong not me.
    -

    You where the one who said you could buy
    it for a dollar. The quote says it came from
    the Catholic Encyclopaedia Vol. 4, p. 153,
    I believe that to be true, just look at there
    ten commandments change says it all.

    -
    http://www.godssabbathtruth.com/SabbathStatementsByTheCatholicChurch.pdf

    If you do not believe the quotes listed in above link,
    referenced where it was said, I can not help you
    by having a hard copy. Or do I have to prove
    every quote in question there to be true also ?

    Never the less, the Catechism of the Catholic
    Church link shows the same thing I have said.
    Do you think the Catholic Encyclopedia conflicts
    with the Catholic Catechism ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
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