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Did Constantine change the Sabbath to Sunday?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by FEZZILLA, May 25, 2019.

  1. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    It was legislated by the church and not from Scripture, because if you did an exegesis of any passages that mentioned "the first day of the week" you will not find any evidence that Sunday was a compulsory day for Christian worship.

    The instruction, "You should not lie" is a transcultural instruction, and would apply equally to our Christian culture as it would to the religious culture in which it was first given. But observing a Saturday or Sunday "sabbath" is not transcultural and a correct exegesis of reference to the Sabbath in the New Testament will show that it is not an absolute requirement for Christians in any culture. But in some denominational church cultures it has been made a requirement for those belonging to that denomination.
     
  2. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    "Sunday 'sabbath'"? I don't think there is such a concept...unless you are speaking of Shavout (Once a year). Where do you get this idea of His law being either cultural/transcultural? Can you present a rundown of that "correct exegesis"?
     
  3. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    Just today my congregation discussed some interesting things about Shavout. Specifically,what is known as "pentecost" parallels the account in Exodus 32 when Moses breaks the tablets given at Mount Sinai and 3000 people were slain by the sword due to being "intent on evil", "out of control" and "run[ning] wild". In Acts 2:41 we read "41Those who embraced his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to the believers that day." So we have this great contrast between those who turn to their own paths (golden calf worship) leading to death, and those who keep to the paths of Yah and are there observing the Holy Day (Moedim)--they had to be there, observing the Appointed Times in order to take part of the miracle and fulfillment of prophecy.

    Acts 2
    "16No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out My Spirit on all people; your sons and daughters will prophesy,your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. 18Even on My menservants and maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy."
     
  4. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    There were and are Protestant churches that refer to Sunday Worship as the Sunday 'sabbath'.

    The skill of exegesis of Scripture is to be able to determine the true meaning of passages of Scripture as understood by the people of the time, the author's intention, and who it was being directed to. If this exegesis is not done correctly, there is no way to prove whether a Scripture can be applied to us as 21st Century believers or not.

    For instance, the condemnation of the prophets of Baal can't be applied to 21st Century people, because we don't have prophets of Baal today. Therefore the references as written would be meaningless to us today. But there are general principles about God's attitude to false prophets that can be learned by us in these days, and a proper exegesis of the Scriptural references can give us clues as to what attributes of those false prophets can be compared to modern false prophets. But we can't directly apply the penalty of stoning to false prophets as instructed by the original references, because stoning as a death penalty is not practiced in western societies.

    Similarly if a woman is caught in adultery today, the instruction of Jesus for the person who has not sinned cast the first stone would be meaningless because adulterous women are not stoned today in western societies. But, with accurate exegesis, we can find out Jesus' intention in what He said, and then hermeneutically apply the meaning of what He said to us in the 21st Century.

    So, stoning people to death for adultery or false prophecy is culture-limited to those ancient cultures and Muslim countries where stoning is still practices. But it is not transcultural because it does not apply to all cultures in the 21st Century.
     
  5. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    That is an error...unless they are referring to Shavout; and this is not a weekly thing. I see no correct exegesis that would differentiate a weekly "Sunday sabbath" from...let's say...indulgences. Why protest some things, but not others?

    You addressed the penalty of the law, which was not under discussion.
     
  6. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    If observing the Sabbath is right for you, well and good, but you have no authority to teach others that they should too. This is developing into a two horse race going nowhere, so I'm gone!
     
  7. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    The Bible is the authority.

    *Shalom.
     
  8. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Er, um, Constantine only made Christianity legal. As opposed to it previously being illegal. He did not make it the official religion of the Empire. Please get your history straight.
     
  9. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    I didn't say that he made it "the official religion of the empire"...only that it became "recognized".
     
  10. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Yes, the Sabbath is the Sabbath.

    The 7th day Sabbath was created by the Lord and He is Lord of it (because He created it).

    Matthew 12

    8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.

    Jesus kept the Sabbath and we are to follow in His footsteps.

    1 Peter 2:21-25

    Christ Is Our Example

    21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps

    Our purpose ... follow in HIS footsteps.
     
  11. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    OK. Recognized. As in no longer illegal.
     
  12. SAAN

    SAAN Newbie

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    The Apostles NEVER kept Sunday as a day of worship and there is no proof of that other than a few verse of a meeting late on the Sabbath in Acts 20 which spilled over to the 1st day of the week and Paul spoke til midnight and an example in 1 Cor 16 in which Paul was there to take up an offering, no there for a church service, The offering was due to a famine in Jerusalem at the time.

    Alot of those 1st-century church leaders were very anti Semitic too, so anything Jewish like the Sabbath, they would have been fully against.

    For if we are still practicing Judaism, we admit that we have not received God’s favor...it is wrong to talk about Jesus Christ and live like Jews. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity.
    -- Ignatius Bishop of Antioch (98-117A.D.) – Epistle to the Magnesians

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    Take heed to yourselves and be not like some piling up you sins and saying that the covenant is theirs as well as ours. It is ours, but they lost it completely just after Moses received it.
    -- "Epistle of Barnabas" Chapter 4vs 6-7 (between 130A.D. and 138 A.D.)

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    We too, would observe your circumcision of the flesh, your Sabbath days, and in a word, all you festivals, if we were not aware of the reason why they were imposed upon you, namely, because of your sins and the hardness of heart.

    The custom of circumcising the flesh, handed down from Abraham, was given to you as a distinguishing mark, to set you off from other nations and from us Christians. The purpose of this was that you and only you might suffer the afflictions that are now justly yours; that only your land be desolated, and you cities ruined by fire, that the fruits of you land be eaten by strangers before your very eyes; that not one of you be permitted to enter your city of Jerusalem. Your circumcision of the flesh is the only mark by which you can certainly be distinguished from other men…as I stated before it was by reason of your sins and the sins of your fathers that, among other precepts, God imposed upon you the observence of the sabbath as a mark.
    -- Justin Martyr - Dialogue with Trypho (Between 138A.D. and 161 A.D.)

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    The synagogue is worse than a brothel…it is the den of scoundrels and the repair of wild beasts…the temple of demons devoted to idolatrous cults…the refuge of brigands and dabauchees, and the cavern of devils. It is a criminal assembly of Jews…a place of meeting for the assassins of Christ… a house worse than a drinking shop…a den of thieves, a house of ill fame, a dwelling of iniquity, the refuge of devils, a gulf and a abyss of perdition."…"I would say the same things about their souls… As for me, I hate the synagogue…I hate the Jews for the same reason.
    -- John Chrysostom (344-407 A.D.) – One of the "greatest" of church fathers; known as "The Golden Mouthed."

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    Yes, you Jews. I say, do I address you; you, who till this very day, deny the Son of God. How long, poor wretches, will ye not believe the truth? Truly I doubt whether a Jew can be really human… I lead out from its den a monstrous animal, and show it as a laughing stock in the amphitheater of the world, in the sight of all the people. I bring thee forward, thou Jew, thou brute beast, in the sight of all men.
    -- Peter the Venerable – known as "the meekest of men, a model of Christian charity"


    I do agree many of the SDA arguments of Sun God worship o Mark of the Beast in regards to Sunday worship is insane.

    I ran across this page and its 10 years old and the Roman Church pretty much straight out admits why we do Sunday.

    http://pdf.amazingdiscoveries.org/Section PDFs/Changing the Sabbath.pdf
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
  13. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You do know, I hope, that days in the New Testament are reckoned as beginning at sunset and not as beginning at midnight?
     
  14. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    I've heard it said that it was on a Shabbat ,which would have ended at sundown, but they all hung out and Paul preached until early Sunday morning. So, it would have already been a few hours into the first day of the week.
     
  15. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The day started at approximately 6 PM. So it would have been a long long long sermon.
     
  16. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    Didn't someone fall out the window...ha ha.

    *Eutychus - Wikipedia
     
  17. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    People fall asleep at all times of the day or night.
     
  18. SAAN

    SAAN Newbie

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    Acts 20:7
    7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

    Yeah that why Acts 20 makes more sense. He came to them right after the Sabbath had just ended which would have been right after sunset 6-8pm ish and spoke with them and stayed with them until midnight, which makes way more sense of him being there for 5-6hrs, vs Paul speaking to them for 14+hrs, considering mainstream makes this verse as Paul coming to them Sunday morning and staying with them until midnight. Either way, Acts 20:7 cant really be used to justify Sunday morning church origins.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
  19. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It does support Saturday evening though. But then Saturday evening is no longer the Sabbath. The Sabbath starts Friday evening at sunset and goes to Saturday evening at sunset. After sunset on Saturday evening is the beginning of the first day of the week.

    Catholic (and Orthodox) liturgical practice preserves this way of understanding time by having vigil masses on Saturday evenings count as Sunday masses. This is even more pronounced in the case of Christmas and Easter where the main celebrations are in the evening and not on the day of.
     
  20. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    Correct. So,in answer to the OP...Constantine didn't, nor couldn't even if he tried, change it...right?
     
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