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Did all the laws end at the cross- Part 2

SabbathBlessings

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Before the cross, Jesus taught his disciples to keep all of the laws, didn't he?

It's what happened after the the cross that this thread is about imo.

Do you believe the hollering Unclean unclean commandment ended at the cross?

The only laws that ended at the cross are the ordinances Colossians 2:14, Eph 2:15 in the law of Moses that have to do with the sanctuary laws/sacrificial food/drink offerings for the remission of sins that all pointed to Jesus because He became our Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sins when one repents are turns from sin (breaking God’s law) 1 John 3:4

The Ten Commandments is what points out sin and God’s people will continue to keep the commandments of God right until Jesus comes.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 and breaking all of the commandments see 1 John 2:4).

I am going to leave this once again as we will have to agree to disagree. It’s really not complicated, but people believe what they want. This will all get sorted out soon enough.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Fascinating! If none of the commandments ended at the cross, then those offerings are still in place.
Yes, no scripture stating tithes and offerings have ended like I have said a dozen times.
 
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Leaf473

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Okay... then those who keep the commandments in Revelation 22 would endorse keeping the Commandment to holler out Unclean, if what you say is correct.

The group that you fellowship with, do they practice this?
 
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Leaf473

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Yes, no scripture stating tithes and offerings have ended like I have said a dozen times.
Cool! And the tithes belong to the Levites as that scripture reference indicates, yes? How do you keep that commandment to the letter?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Okay... then those who keep the commandments in Revelation 22 would endorse keeping the Commandment to holler out Unclean, if what you say is correct.

The group that you fellowship with, do they practice this?

Do I separate myself from people who have contagious diseases, yes. Not sure what that has to do with the post you’re responding to.

Revelation 22:14-15 is very specifically referring to the Ten Commandments as outlined in my post.

Do I search scriptures to try to disprove undisputed scripture over and over. No, but if that works for you, I will leave that between you and God.
 
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Leaf473

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Do I separate myself from people who have contagious diseases, yes.

Do I search scriptures to try to disprove undisputed scripture over and over. No, but if that works for you, I will leave that between you and God.
The interpretations of the scriptures are disputed, that is why we have the possibility of an interesting discussion.

That's great that you separate yourself. Now, about the hollering Unclean. The group that you fellowship with, do they keep that to the letter?
 
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Leaf473

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We can cut to the chase here if you wish, SB.

Loma Linda is a world-class hospital, thanks be to God for that!

It is essentially run by the SDA Church, thanks be to God for all the wonderful work SDA's do around the world.

Do they keep the hollering commandment in the dermatology ward there? If they did, it would be common knowledge, just like it's common knowledge that Jehovah's Witnesses refuse blood transfusions.

But I'm sure they keep the principle of the Commandment, isolating contagious diseases.

Nobody knows where the Levites are today, so nobody is giving their tithe to the Levites. But a lot of people keep the principle of the Commandment, put 10% of your paycheck in the offering plate.

So we keep the principles of the commandments, Amen to that. Of course, if I misrepresented your position, please correct me.

And may the peace of the Lord Jesus be with you all!
 
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SabbathBlessings

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We are no longer under the Levitical priesthood as Jesus is our High Priest administering on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary. If you don’t feel you need to keep the Ten Commandments or only in principle in the way you define and not the way God defined as He has personally written and in His heavenly sanctuary Revelation 11:19, I’m not the one you need to convince. We all have to answer to a much greater Authority one day soon and we can’t hide anything from Him or outsmart Him. Take care Leaf as usual we will have to agree to disagree.
 
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Cornelius8L

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I trust your meaning of commandments includes the greatest and the second commandments in Matthew 22:36-40. We know these TWO commandments are beyond the TEN because the TEN are just part of the TWO. The TWO summarized more commandments and laws besides the TEN. Some examples include the criteria for entering the kingdom of heaven mentioned by Jesus in the Gospel books.

We agreed Jesus magnified the commandments from TEN regarding murder and adultery previously. Then, we would also agree,
  • Adultery also refers to unfaithfulness to God (Hosea 1:2)
  • Rebellion [towards the words of God] is like divination (1 Samuel 15:23)
  • Arrogance is like Idolatry (1 Samuel 15:23) – Therefore, we need to be humble like a child to enter KOH (Matthew 18:3-4)
  • Liar also refers to those who add to God’s words (Proverbs 30:6)
  • Murder also refers to anger/hatred toward a brother (Matthew 5:22) – “my brothers are those who are hearing and doing the word of God. (Luke 8:21)"
These examples are just to demonstrate that “Your commandment is exceedingly broad (Psalms 119:96)”

In short, I’m trying to say keeping the commandments is more than just keeping the letters from the TEN but the spirit of the TWO. One cannot enter KOH if he keeps the TEN but be like the Goats in the parable of Sheep and Goats (Matthew 25:31-46), thus breaking the TWO.

Also, since there was not much instruction on how to keep the fourth commandment today from the TEN, we shouldn’t break the TWO by enforcing/teaching human rules (Matthew 15:9) even if they were with good intentions. It is by the law of freedom (James 1:25) and the guidance of the Holy Spirit we know how to sacrifice our hearts and seek to know God (Psalms 51:17, 1 Samuel 15:22, Mark 12:33, Hosea 6:6, Romans 12:1, Jeremiah 17:10). Going to the church(building) on a designated day is a good practice (I must say), but I don’t think it should become a rule/checkbox to salvation.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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There is no argument that the Ten Commandments have a spiritual aspect to them that is greater than the letter. Jesus came to magnify the commandments Isaiah 42:21 Matthew 5:19-30 not change. If one is truly keeping the Spirit of the commandments the letter will automatically be kept. If you find yourself breaking the letter, you can’t be in the Spirit. The Spirit is given to help keep the commandments John 14:15-18 and to those who obey. Acts 5:32. His Spirit is what enables us to keep His law in our hearts and minds. We keep His commandments through love and faith.

In regards to your last sentences, our thoughts and feelings don’t really matter, only God’s Word does. I don’t think we should underestimate the scripture where we are told to follow the example of Jesus 1 John 2:6, so if going to church on the Sabbath was what Jesus did the majority of the time Luke 4:16, Mark 1:21 , Mark 6:2 and how He kept His Father’s commandments as our example John 15:10 I think we should believe the scriptures to follow His example. I think a lot of people look for the least they have to do to get into heaven, what Jesus wants is us to be changed through His Spirit and in doing so we will want to follow the Lamb and His example and worshipping the Lord on His holy Sabbath will continue for eternity Isaiah 66:22-23, God will is not different in heaven as it is on this earth.
 
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Cornelius8L

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“Custom” discussion aside, we know Jesus always went to the temple and synagogues intending to teach [the same thing He did every day everywhere] and ultimately got Himself into trouble. It was with an act of loving God and man (1 John 2:5) with the cost of His life on the cross. “I always taught in the synagogues and at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret (John 18:20).”

(Matthew 21:23) When Jesus returned to the temple courts and began to teach, the chief priests and elders of the people came up to Him. “By what authority are You doing these things?” they asked. “And who gave You this authority?”

Is anyone courageous enough to oppose the leaders like Jesus did if they found wrong teachings in the church? If yes, that is definitely commendable. No doubt.

Walking the way Jesus walked (1 John 2:6) can mean commands such as (Matthew 16:24-25) “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.” Etc
 
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Leaf473

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We are no longer under the Levitical priesthood as Jesus is our High Priest administering on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary.
That's true, that we are no longer under the levitical priesthood. But the commandments say to give the tithe to the Levites, do they not? Isn't that what Numbers 18 is about?
 
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Leaf473

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Leviticus 13 also contains commandments of God. I brought them up to show that the partial law keeping theology that you endorse unravels when applied to the whole Bible.
 
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Leaf473

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We all have to answer to a much greater Authority one day soon and we can’t hide anything from Him or outsmart Him. Take care Leaf as usual we will have to agree to disagree.
Right! We don't want to try to outsmart God.

But we do want to use the scriptures to test theologies.

If you don't want to talk anymore, that's okay. Peace be with you.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Leviticus 13 also contains commandments of God. I brought them up to show that the partial law keeping theology that you endorse unravels when applied to the whole Bible.
As I have stated a few times, if you don’t understand the role of the Ten Commandments compared to all other laws i.e. statues, ordinances, judgements etc, I can see why one misunderstands some of these scriptures and James 2:10-12 who is directly quoting from the Ten Commandments when stating if you break one of these commandments you break them all. The part that really unravels is when we start disregarding the Ten Commandments, when Jesus clearly speaks of keeping these commandments versus not keeping them or changing them.
 
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Leaf473

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...I can see why one misunderstands some of these scriptures...
Good! Then we have something to discuss.

What is it you feel I don't understand about Leviticus 13?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Good! Then we have something to discuss.

What is it you feel I don't understand about Leviticus 13?
Not sure if you read my post but I am referring to the role of the Ten Commandments. Perhaps you can quote where Lev 13 is part of the Ten Commandments.

I think we have discussed this long enough to know where we stand on this position (Ten Commandments) and neither of us appears to be changing out opinion, so doesn't make sense to continue on. I'll end it with wishing you the best in seeking God's Word.
 
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Leaf473

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I don't think Leviticus 13 is part of the ten commandments.

But my impression was that you thought that Leviticus 13 contained some of the eternal commandments of God, yes?

James 2 says that if we break one part of the law, we break it all. So if one is not keeping the commandments in Leviticus 13, one is also breaking the ten commandments. I think that's how it would relate.

But if you don't want to talk about it anymore, that's fine. May the peace of the Lord be always with you.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Well lets quote James:

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

Which law is James referring to? The Ten Commandments, what we will be judged by. Like I have stated a few times if one is truly keeping the Ten Commandments is both truth and spirit one is more than likely keeping all of the other laws that pertain to today. What I'm not interested in debating about which most of your posts end up in this direction, is searching for scripture just to find one Mosaic law that we don't keep today as a way to say, hey look we don't keep this law, so therefore we don't need to keep the Ten Commandments despite Jesus telling us we do. Unless you're coming from some sort of absolute about the Ten Commandments and building on that, instead of trying to constantly disprove them, you can't reason with this mindset and going down this path again is not something that makes sense to continue pursing since nothing has changed in over two years of discussions.
 
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Leaf473

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James says what law he is referring to, "the whole law". And he quotes from the ten commandments as well as the second greatest commandment, which is from the book of Leviticus.

Does Leviticus 13 not contain some of the commandments of God? I thought you had said earlier that commandments about clean and unclean were some of the commandments of God? Yes?
 
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