Did Abraham observe the Sabbath day?

[ralliann]

Jesus tells us not to break the least of the commandments or to teach others to break them quoting from the Ten Commandments. Matthew 5:19-30 we should be careful of what people teach when vastly differing from what Jesus taught. It sounds nice that Jesus came to keep one of His commandments so we don’t have to because people have itching ears, but it’s not what Jesus came to do. He came to do the will of the Father John 6:38, He came to magnify the law which means make greater Isaiah 42:21 He came to save us from our sin Matthew 1:21, not save us in sin. He came to also show us the perfect way to live 1 John 2:6 and He kept His Fathers commandments John 15:10 which includes the Sabbath commandment and tells us to keep the commandments of God Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 5:19-30, Matthew 19:17-19 because He does not want us to sin, sin comes from the other spirit 1 John 3:8. Sin is the transgression of God’s law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 so teaching we can sin and break one of His commandments goes against the very reason Jesus came and His own teachings and is missing the very essence of what Hebrews is warning us about to not so and telling us what to continue doing Hebrews 4:9 NIV for God’s people.

Jew's are judged by the law. Not Gentiles. Jesus disciples were still baptizing with the baptism of repentance to escape the wrath that was coming by the law! Gentiles were not subject to that.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jew's are judged by the law. Not Gentiles. Jesus disciples were still baptizing with the baptism of repentance to escape the wrath that was coming by the law! Gentiles were not subject to that.

In scripture there is no Jew or Gentile, just those with faith in Christ. Gal 3:26-28. Those with faith uphold the law Romans 3:31

We will all be judged by Jesus based on what we do. We will all be judged by the Ten Commandments or based on our knowledge if one does not have access to scriptures.

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, (from the Ten Commandments, Jesus just quoted from saying we should keep the least of the commandments) and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’

James 2:10-12 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

James quotes directly from the Ten Commandment stating if we break one of these commandments we break them all. This is God's commandments that He wrote and He spoke Exodus 31:18 Exo 32:16 and we are told not to add or take away from His commandments. Deut 4:2 that are in heaven under His mercy seat Rev 11:19


Rev 22: 12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

 

[ralliann]

In scripture there is no Jew or Gentile, just those with faith in Christ. Gal 3:26-28. Those with faith uphold the law Romans 3:31

Here is the problem, it is not JUST scripture. Mixing covenants again... In the new covenant there is no Jew or Gentile. But, the division is in the Mosaic covenant. Which the new covenant was for an escape from the wrath coming on those under it. That is why Jesus came to the Jews....
. That is what John's baptism was all about. Christ's disciples continued that baptism to Jew's throughout his entire ministry. So once again there is no point in addressing the rest of your post because of lack of covenantal distinctions. Which is not being addressed by you all.
Please speak according to a covenant theology, as opposed to a dispensational theology as that would address my post.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Here is the problem, is not JUST scripture. Mixing covenants again... In the new covenant there is no Jew or Gentile. But, the division is in the Mosaic covenant. Which the new covenant was for an escape from the wrath coming. That is what John's baptism was all about. Christ's disciples continued that baptism to Jew's throughout his entire ministry. So once again there is no point in addressing the rest of your post because of lack of covenantal distinctions in this forum which is covenant theology. Which is not being addressed by you all.

You seem not to be following the scripture or do not want to. Is Jesus mixing covenants by quoting the Ten Commandments telling us not to break the least of the commandments? There seems to be a lot of misunderstandings about the covenants and God's eternal Ten Commandments. We are saved by our faith; this is not new just to the NC. In the OC it was faith pointing forward to Christ in the NC it is faith pointing back to the Cross. Jesus is the only way we are saved, and we are all saved by Jesus through our faith, never has one been saved by being a certain nationality. Romans 2:28-29, Romans 9:6 If we have faith in Jesus we should have enough faith to obey what He asks because we love Him. Romans 3:31 1 John 5:3 This is how saved person lives Rev 14:12

 

[ralliann]

You seem not to be following the scripture or do not want to.

I am addressing scripture in covenant style.

Is Jesus mixing covenants by quoting the Ten Commandments telling us not to break the least of the commandments?

No, again there was law which the mosaic covenant added to. Another way of putting it is...prior law was retained (not disannulled by the Sinai law). Law which the nations were judged by.

There seems to be a lot of misunderstandings about the covenants and God's eternal Ten Commandments.

No, we may disagree, but not misunderstand. The law of faith existed prior to Moses law (of works)

We are saved by our faith; this is not new just to the NC. In the OC it was faith pointing forward to Christ in the NC it is faith pointing back to the Cross. Jesus is the only way we are saved, and we are all saved by Jesus through our faith, never has one been saved by being a certain nationality. Romans 2:28-29, Romans 9:6 If we have faith in Jesus we should have enough faith to obey what He asks because we love Him. Romans 3:31 1 John 5:3 This is how saved person lives Rev 14:12

Again you go into the new covenant, which Israel in the Gospel was not yet under. We disagree. You are making the Sinai covenant the source of Salvation, and eternal inheritance. I vehemently disagree. The patriarchs were not given the Siani covenant.

 

[pasifika]

The Ten Commandment is what reveals sin according to scripture.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

There is only one place we find this law and that is the Ten Commandments Exodus 20, this is the law of God written personally by God and spoken by God Exodus 31:18 as these are His perfect works Exodus 32:16 that man cannot add to or take away from Deut 4:2 because man is not above God.

Can elaborate your answer So, if the 10 commandments only revealed what sin is, then how is it keeping the 7th day Sabbath commandment revealed sin? Is it when you don't keep it? Then you still haven't answer my previous question which is what if you keep the 10 commandments what is that revealed?

The law testify of God's Righteousness..Romans 3:21. Is that what the Law revealed when you keep it?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, again there was law which the mosaic covenant added to. Another way of putting it is...prior law was retained (not disannulled by the Sinai law). Law which the nations were judged by.

The law of God, the Ten Commandments, no one can add to it, no one can subtract from it God made that clear. Deut 4:2 This law was written in Sinai, but the law always existed and His people knew it, which is why it was a sin for Cain to murder Abel. Without law, there is no transgression Romans 4:15 and sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4 and Paul points right to the Ten Commandments as the law to define sin. Romans 7:7.

No, we may disagree, but not misunderstand. The law of faith existed prior to Moses law

As I stated in the post you are posting to faith has is how all people are saved. Those with faith uphold God's law. Romans 3:31

Again you go into the new covenant, which Israel in the Gospel was not yet under. We disagree. You are making the Sinai covenant the source of Salvation, and eternal inheritance. I vehemently disagree.

I never said we are saved by keeping the Ten Commandments I clearly said in my post we are all saved by Jesus through faith. Faith upholds the law Romans 3:31 and Jesus is looking for true worship which He says we do when we keep the commandments of God quoting from the Ten Commandments instead of keeping our rules over God's . Matthew 15:3-9

The patriarchs were not given the Siani covenant.

I am assuming you mean God's eternal Ten Commandments that are in heaven Rev 11:19 you claim were never given to God's people. That is not a case you can make through scripture. God defines the Ten Commandments as "My commandments" Exodus 20:6 so anytime you see "My commandments" "His commandments" "the commandments of God", it absolutely includes the Ten and this argument is really with God since He is the one who wrote and spoke the Ten Commandments and added no more Deut 5:22and no man has authority to add or subtract from it. Deut 4:2 God writes His laws in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant instead of deleting them Hebrews 8:10.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Can elaborate your answer So, if the 10 commandments only revealed what sin is, then how is it keeping the 7th day Sabbath commandment revealed sin? Is it when you don't keep it? Then you still haven't answer my previous question which is what if you keep the 10 commandments what is that revealed?

The law testify of God's Righteousness..Romans 3:21. Is that what the Law revealed when you keep it?

The law just points out sin so we know what not to do. If we are keeping the commandments in letter and Spirit we are not sinning and there is no transgression/sin, just peace Isiaah 48:18 All of God's commandments are righteous Psalms 119:172 so it will never be unrighteous to obey God and what He asks.

 

[pasifika]

The law just points out sin so we know what not to do. If we are keeping the commandments in letter and Spirit we are not sinning and there is no transgression/sin, just peace Isiaah 48:18 All of God's commandments are righteous Psalms 119:172 so it will never be unrighteous to obey God and what He asks.

Okay, so the Law point out sin, so we know what not to do..i.e. breaking any of the 10 commandments.

So my question is still unanswered..So what does the Law point to if we keep or do what it said? Does is still point out sin? i.e keep 10 commandments

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Okay, so the Law point out sin, so we know what not to do..i.e. breaking any of the 10 commandments.

So my question is still unanswered..So what does the Law point to if we keep or do what it said? Does is still point out sin? i.e keep 10 commandments

I did answer the question, sin is the transgression of the law, if we are keeping the law there is no transgression/sin.

Here are two translations of this verse, they mean the same thing...when we wash our robes it means we are clothed in His righteousness and are free of sin.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Revelation 22:14 NIV “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.

Jesus doesn't make us obey by ourselves, He provides us the Holy Spirit to do so, but notice the sequence.

John:14:15 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

 

[pasifika]

I did answer the question, sin is the transgression of the law, if we are keeping the law there is no transgression/sin.

Here are two translations of this verse, they mean the same thing...when we wash our robes it means we are clothed in His righteousness and are free of sin.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Revelation 22:14 NIV “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.

Jesus doesn't make us obey by ourselves, He provides us the Holy Spirit to do so, but notice the sequence.

John:14:15 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Yes I've got that sin is transgression of the Law. So keeping the Law is Righteousness right?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes I've got that sin is transgression of the Law. So keeping the Law is Righteousness right?

Is it right to obey God and keep His commandments, yes of course. Are we justified by keeping the law- no we are justified by God. We keep the law through faith and love. Romans 3:31 1 John 5:3

Keeping the commandments leads to righteousness, but only God can make someone righteous.

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

 

[pasifika]

Is it right to obey God and keep His commandments, yes of course. Are we justified by keeping the law- no we are justified by God. We keep the law through faith and love. Romans 3:31 1 John 5:3

Keeping the commandments leads to righteousness, but only God can make someone righteous.

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

So keeping the Law leads to Righteousness. And Christ is our Righteousness 1 Corinthians 1:30. Right?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I have no problem with this concept. The issue I have is that we don't know what differences there are between what Abraham considered as laws, and what is explicitly in the Mosaic law code. The argument by some here seems to be that the Mosaic law code existed explicitly or implicitly back to Noah, but this can demonstrably be proven false by scripture.

There are obviously basic things that would seem to be obvious to us, like the 10 commandments. But even these were not obvious to the nations. Polytheism breaks the first 2 for instance. Only Israel kept the sabbath. How do you prove 10 if you aren't God? The only relatively universal laws repeated by Moses are that you must not murder or steal. And if you were a king or nobility in one of these other countries, you probably could get away with that too.



No argument here.



But not in its current form until Moses time, though Moses likely had access to historical writings of some kind or oral history. (Clearly Egyptian history, but also possibly from Abraham, Noah, Eber via his 40 years in Midian, ancestors of Abraham, or perhaps saved by members of the Israelites or even Joseph's tomb, etc.)



True, but Cain was pardoned even though his action was premeditated (Genesis 4:15). According to the Mosaic law code he would have been executed.



Noah knew about the unclean animal distinctions, but before the flood it is implied that Noah didn't eat animals, and after the flood, particularly in Genesis 9:3, there is unrestricted access to what animals could be eaten. Only the Mosaic law code restricted the eating of unclean animals.



For at least 80 years, the Israelites could not observe the sabbath, as they were oppressed slaves in Egypt. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah and others may have observed the sabbath, but the arguments for this are speculative and not explicitly in the Bible. Neither are laws that Noah and Abraham had to abide by. They obviously had laws, but we cannot prove what they are and how similar they are to the Mosaic law code.

Again, either Yeshua lied when He said the Sabbath was made for ADAM (who was not a Jew) or what He said was true. Which is it?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Jew's are judged by the law. Not Gentiles.

Sodom was a gentile city and was judged...many other examples

 

[ralliann]

Sodom was a gentile city and was judged...many other examples

Yes they were which shows that Mosaic law came later. The sabbath rest we enter in Crist is eternal. That is what was created for Adam. Not just a twenty four hour temporal period. Read scripture, it talks about it.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yes they were which shows that Mosaic law came later. The sabbath rest we enter in Crist is eternal. That is what was created for Adam. Not just a twenty four hour temporal period. Read scripture, it talks about it.

well that was my point! The laws were in effect BEFORE Sinai AND did affect gentiles...the sabbath was the 7th day.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The laws were in effect BEFORE Sinai AND did affect gentiles...the sabbath was the 7th day.

Agree but I would change was to "is".

 

[ralliann]

well that was my point! The laws were in effect BEFORE Sinai AND did affect gentiles...the sabbath was the 7th day.

I really don't think that was your point. What I said is not what you are saying, so "your point" was not expressed. The "laws" you are promoting are of a covenant made many many years later to one nation to set them apart from the rest.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I really don't think that was your point. What I said is not what you are saying, so "your point" was not expressed. The "laws" you are promoting are of a covenant made many many years later to one nation to set them apart from the rest.

Yes, God sets His people apart from all others. Israel was just a name God gave to represent His people. God never made a covenant with the Gentiles it has always been through Israel and its not those who are born of Israel that are grafted into God's covenant promise, we are grafted in through our faith, like it always has been from the beginning. The story Ruth and Naomi is a good example of this.