Did Abraham observe the Sabbath day?

[SabbathBlessings]

He was quoting the law. If you continue reading that chapter He mentions the law concerning divorce and an eye for an eye and don’t make false vows to the Lord. These are not part of the 10 commandments so He was not only referring to the 10 commandments He was referring to the law in general.

Jesus quoted from the Ten Commandments. Jesus came to magnify the law, Isaiah 42:21 which means to make greater and showed an example of this from the Ten Commandments - murder is no longer just a physical act, but one from the heart which is what Jesus wants our hearts changed from the inside out and if we change our heart from thoughts of anger and contempt to love and compassion, thou shalt not murder will automatically be kept. This same principles applies to divorce under adultery and making false vows is bearing false witness all from this same unit of Ten.

And what did He mean “I came to fulfill it”? I believe He wasn’t saying that the law would not be changed because obviously it was changed, I believe He was saying that He came to uphold the law Himself in order that He would be the perfect sacrifice. Hence He came to fulfill the law meaning He came to obey the entire law perfectly so that He would be the perfect sacrifice, the unblemished Lamb.

No, Jesus did not come to change the law of the Ten Commandments as it is what defines sin Romans 7:7 and what we will be judged by James 2:10-12 and fulfill means to fill full, like a wedding covenant one makes- fulfilling your vows means one is honoring their wedding vows, doesn’t mean to destroy and can commit adultery. Jesus paid the penalty of sin, not so we can be free to break God’s law, but to show us the perfect way to live and Jesus kept all of the commandments of God, told us to and told us to follow Him. Jesus kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16 John 15:10 and never once said for us not to keep, but to follow His example. I place my faith in Jesus He would never lead us astray, its the “other spirit” who does that.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Deut 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Prov 30:5 Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.



Deut 5:22 “These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Sounds pretty clear to me.

Why would one think they are above God and can change His holy commandments, the ones He wrote and He spoke, these are His divine works Exodus 32:16 and the earthy version of His temple was a replica of God’s heavenly version. Heb 8:5, Rev 11:19. We are warned when we go away from God’s Word, we are going away from God. Isaiah 8:20

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. You and Bob keep accusing me of changing God’s commandments but I’m not the one who wrote Colossians 2:16. It’s the New Testament that revealed the changes to the law not the Old Testament.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. You and Bob keep accusing me of changing God’s commandments

I never accused you of changing the commandments of God or did Bob, we said they were changed, not by God Dan 7:25 Deut 4:2 Jesus tells us to obey the commandments of God over the traditions of man. Matthew 15:3-9. The weekly Sabbath is a commandment of God, there is no commandment to keep holy any other day other than the seventh day Sabbath. Gen 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11 Isaiah 58:13, Isaiah 66:23 because this is the only day God claims as His holy day, not the one assigned to God by man that God deems for work and labor. Exodus 20:9

but I’m not the one who wrote Colossians 2:16. It’s the New Testament that revealed the changes to the law not the Old Testament.

I guess you never allow context back in to understand what this means because you need to quote Col 2:13-17 KJV and have careful study to understand this scripture. There is more than one Sabbath in scripture. One Sabbath came before sin at Creation Genesis 2:1-3 the weekly Sabbath that God hallowed Exodus 20:11 and commanded us to because we are made in His image to follow Him not do our own thing. The other sabbath(s) are ordinances and came after sin.

The annual sabbath(s) ordinances is what this is referring to which is all about food, drink offerings, sacrifices, feasts days and sabbath(s) which pointed to Jesus. The weekly Sabbath commandment points us back to the God of Creation Exodus 20:10-11 same God of Judgement Rev 14:7 and is a commandment of God that is holy and blessed, which is not the definition to contrary and against. Jesus rebukes your interpretation saying the Sabbath would be kept decades after the cross Matthew 24:20, so not nailed to the cross and we see the disciples keeping every Sabbath decades after the cross because they were commanded to observe everything Jesus commanded of them and will be kept in heaven for eternity Isaiah 66:22-23. It’s a lot of scripture one must delete to make a whole doctrine out of a single verse out of context. We however have free will to believe what we want, but only the Truth sets us free. All of God’s commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151 and are meant to bless us.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Jesus quoted from the Ten Commandments. Jesus came to magnify the law, Isaiah 42:21 which means to make greater and showed an example of this from the Ten Commandments - murder is no longer just a physical act, but one from the heart which is what Jesus wants our hearts changed from the inside out and if we change our heart from thoughts of anger and contempt to love and compassion, thou shalt not murder will automatically be kept. This same principles applies to divorce under adultery and making false vows is bearing false witness all from this same unit of Ten.

He also quoted 3 more commandments that weren’t part of the 10 commandments. Yeah He quoted 2 of the 10 commandments then He continued and quoted 3 more commandments that were not part of the 10 commandments in the very same chapter. Why won’t you acknowledge this fact?

No, Jesus did not come to change the law of the Ten Commandments as it is what defines sin Romans 7:7 and what we will be judged by James 2:10-12 and fulfill means to fill full, like a wedding covenant one makes- fulfilling your vows means one is honoring their wedding vows, doesn’t mean to destroy and can commit adultery. Jesus paid the penalty of sin, not so we can be free to break God’s law, but to show us the perfect way to live and Jesus kept all of the commandments of God, told us to and told us to follow Him. Jesus kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16 John 15:10 and never once said for us not to keep, but to follow His example. I place my faith in Jesus He would never lead us astray, it’s the “other spirit” who does that.

This is nothing more than your opinion. It is not backed by scripture. The scriptures do not say that God did not or won’t change any of the 10 commandments. Just because you say He didn’t change them doesn’t make it a fact. Colossians 2:16 confirms that the Sabbath commandment has changed.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I never accused you of changing the commandments of God or did Bob, we said they were changed, not by God Dan 7:25 Deut 4:2 Jesus tells us to obey the commandments of God over the traditions of man. Matthew 15:3-9. The weekly Sabbath is a commandment of God, there is no commandment to keep holy any other day other than the seventh day Sabbath. Gen 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11 Isaiah 58:13, Isaiah 66:23 because this is the only day God claims as His holy day, not the one assigned to God by man that God deems for work and labor. Exodus 20:9

I guess you never allow context back in to understand what this means because you need to quote Col 2:13-17 KJV and have careful study to understand this scripture. There is more than one Sabbath in scripture. One Sabbath came before sin at Creation Genesis 2:1-3 the weekly Sabbath that God hallowed Exodus 20:11 and commanded us to because we are made in His image to follow Him not do our own thing. The other sabbath(s) are ordinances and came after sin.

The annual sabbath(s) ordinances is what this is referring to which is all about food, drink offerings, sacrifices, feasts days and sabbath(s) which pointed to Jesus. The weekly Sabbath commandment points us back to the God of Creation Exodus 20:10-11 same God of Judgement Rev 14:7 and is a commandment of God that is holy and blessed, which is not the definition to contrary and against. Jesus rebukes your interpretation saying the Sabbath would be kept decades after the cross Matthew 24:20, so not nailed to the cross and we see the disciples keeping every Sabbath decades after the cross because they were commanded to observe everything Jesus commanded of them and will be kept in heaven for eternity Isaiah 66:22-23. It’s a lot of scripture one must delete to make a whole doctrine out of a single verse out of context. We however have free will to believe what we want, but only the Truth sets us free. All of God’s commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151 and are meant to bless us.

Well I sincerely apologize if I have misrepresented you and Bob, I assure you it was not intentional. It appeared as if you and he were quoting these verses towards me.

Why would one think they are above God and can change His holy commandments, the ones He wrote and He spoke, these are His divine works Exodus 32:16 and the earthy version of His temple was a replica of God’s heavenly version. Heb 8:5, Rev 11:19. We are warned when we go away from God’s Word, we are going away from God. Isaiah 8:20

How very odd it is that when God says "He spoke these TEN commandments from the pillar of cloud... and ADDED no more" Deut 5:22 - it is right THERE that some folks propose "tweaking" the Commandments of God.

Both of these appeared to be accusing me of changing God’s commandments. I apologize if I am mistaken.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

He also quoted 3 more commandments that weren’t part of the 10 commandments. Yeah He quoted 2 of the 10 commandments then He continued and quoted 3 more commandments that were not part of the 10 commandments in the very same chapter. Why won’t you acknowledge this fact?

Already addressed- the Ten Commandments are much greater than the letter as Jesus shows in this very passage.

This is nothing more than your opinion. It is not backed by scripture. The scriptures do not say that God did not or won’t change any of the 10 commandments. Just because you say He didn’t change them doesn’t make it a fact. Colossians 2:16 confirms that the Sabbath commandment has changed.

Where in Col 2:16 does it say the Sabbath commandment. You’re adding what is not there and seem to be ignoring Col 2:14 KJV which tells us its referring to the ordinances, not the commandments which are not the same Neh 9:13 and Deut 4:2 says we cannot add or subtract from the commandments so obviously not about one of God’s commandments that is holy and blessed and kept decades after the Cross. Context doesn’t fit or reconcile with the rest of the scriptures. There is no scripture saying we can break any of God’s commandments which includes the Sabbath commandment, which we are told after the Cross remains for the people of God. Heb 4:9 NIV and being kept for all eternity Isaiah 66:22-23

Guess we will need to agree to disagree and wish you well in seeking Truth to His Word.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Well I sincerely apologize if I have misrepresented you and Bob, I assure you it was not intentional. It appeared as if you and he were quoting these verses towards me.



Both of these appeared to be accusing me of changing God’s commandments. I apologize if I am mistaken.

This is arguing on principle, not accusing you personally. I apologize if you took it that was, it was not the intention.

 

[ralliann]

So? Was it wheat or barley? Was it a Shmitah? Was it an edge of a field? You don't know, do you...

Well, it was the second Sabbath, you figure it out.

 

[ralliann]

What I get from the context of Jesus’ words is that what they were doing was against the commandment.

Yes, exactly. They were eating from grain, that was still standing. If it had not been brought to the priest, it was violation of the law.
They want to make this about "rabbinic Error". Adding to the law. Bunk..... The Pharisees had traditions. There was no dispute concerning this between the priesthood and the Sanhedrin.

De 17:9 And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment:
De 17:10 And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:
De 17:11 According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, exactly. They were eating from grain, that was still standing. If it had not been brought to the priest, it was violation of the law.
They want to make this about "rabbinic Error". Adding to the law. Bunk..... The Pharisees had traditions. There was no dispute concerning this between the priesthood and the Sanhedrin.

De 17:9 And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment:
De 17:10 And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:
De 17:11 According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.

It wasn’t an offering, they were eating because they were hungry. Matthew 12:1.

Jesus was with them, why would they need to go to a priest for an offering when Jesus is our High Priest. This wasn’t an offering and you presented no scripture stating otherwise, its simple, they were hungry. Mat 12:1. Jesus did not condemn them for sin Matthew 12:7 why should we? It’s not a sin to eat on the Sabbath, the Sabbath is meant to be a blessing for mankind Mark 2:27 Isaiah 58:13 because God wants to spend time with us on the day He set aside to do so that is holy, blessed and sanctified, because we cannot sanctify ourselves, only God can. Eze 20:12 if we are hungry on the Sabbath and want to pick an apple from a tree to eat, it’s not a sin, what kind of God do you think we serve. He is a loving God and wants us to serve Him because we love Him and in doing so we obey His commandments. 1 John 5:3 John 14:15 Exo 20:6

 

[ralliann]

It wasn’t an offering, they were eating because they were hungry. Matthew 12:1.

Nobody is saying that. Your response has nothing to do with eating grain that before had not been offered. What they were doing was alike to what David did, when he ate bread that was to be only for the priests. That was not lawful to do. What they were doing was not lawful.

 

[pasifika]

Nobody is saying that. Your response has nothing to do with eating grain that before had not been offered. What they were doing was alike to what David did, when he ate bread that was to be only for the priests. That was not lawful to do. What they were doing was not lawful.

A Son is Not bound by any Law in His own Father's house. What belongs to the Father belongs to His Son. I think that was the message Jesus was trying to convey. laws and regulations are given to servants, slaves etc Not Son(s) of the King.

This is also for us who are destine to adoption to Sons and daughters of the Most High. we are given law (law of Faith) to train, and equip us until we are mature in the Faith to become Children of God. Also, in Galatians 4:1-7

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Nobody is saying that. Your response has nothing to do with eating grain that before had not been offered. What they were doing was alike to what David did, when he ate bread that was to be only for the priests. That was not lawful to do. What they were doing was not lawful.

Jesus said His disciples and David eating on the Sabbath were blameless Matthew 12:7 so why would one want to condemn Jesus’s followers, when Jesus did not. These were the laws of the Pharisees they broke, not God’s law. Are we above Jesus and His righteous judgement? Jesus would know how to keep the Sabbath, He Created it, meant to be a blessing for mankind. Mark 2:27 Isaiah 58:13. Eating on the Sabbath is not a sin and Jesus did not bend the rules and then condemn them for following their rules over the commandments of God, this would make Jesus a hypocrite, which He is not.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Well, it was the second Sabbath, you figure it out.

So you don't know do you...so any of your points are moot

 

[ralliann]

So you don't know do you...so any of your points are moot

We know what they were doing was against the law. We know it because it says so. We know it was the second Sabbath after the first.
I don't need to look for a loop hole to make what was being done "legal" anyway.
Such as gleaning from the edges of a harvested field on any Sabbath, or gleaning on a sabbath year. Nor the jubilee. Neither of which which has no second after the first. These are not illegal. We know what they were doing was likened to what David did. Not like eating with unwashed hands.

 

[ralliann]

A Son is Not bound by any Law in His own Father's house. What belongs to the Father belongs to His Son. I think that was the message Jesus was trying to convey. laws and regulations are given to servants, slaves etc Not Son(s) of the King.

Mt 17:25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

This is also for us who are destine to adoption to Sons and daughters of the Most High. we are given law (law of Faith) to train, and equip us until we are mature in the Faith to become Children of God. Also, in Galatians 4:1-7

We might keep in mind, it was John the baptists ( a son of Aaron) Ministry of baptism that was being conducted by Christs disciples the whole time. Clearly an association was known between Christ and John here in the continuation of his ministry. The entire time of Christs ministry. I think we often loose sight of this....
Joh 4: 1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

Decree of king Cyrus........
23 Whatsoever is commanded by the God of heaven, let it be diligently done for the house of the God of heaven: for why should there be wrath against the realm of the king and his sons?
24 Also we certify you, that touching any of the priests and Levites, singers, porters, Nethinims, or ministers of this house of God, it shall not be lawful to impose toll, tribute, or custom, upon them.

Prophetic utterance
Is. 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

We know what they were doing was against the law. We know it because it says so. We know it was the second Sabbath after the first.
I don't need to look for a loop hole to make what was being done "legal" anyway.
Such as gleaning from the edges of a harvested field on any Sabbath, or gleaning on a sabbath year. Nor the jubilee. Neither of which which has no second after the first. These are not illegal. We know what they were doing was likened to what David did. Not like eating with unwashed hands.

No, only the Perushim say it was illegal. So you agree with them and not Yeshua. "On the Sabbath, a man may crush it and eat, provided that he does not crush a large quantity with a tool". Rabbi Judah. But the Sages say: He may crush it with the tips of his fingers and eat, provided, however, that he does not crush a large quantity with his hands in the same way as he does on weekdays (Babylonian Talmud Shabbat 128a).

 

[BNR32FAN]

Already addressed- the Ten Commandments are much greater than the letter as Jesus shows in this very passage.

Where in Col 2:16 does it say the Sabbath commandment. You’re adding what is not there and seem to be ignoring Col 2:14 KJV which tells us its referring to the ordinances, not the commandments which are not the same Neh 9:13 and Deut 4:2 says we cannot add or subtract from the commandments so obviously not about one of God’s commandments that is holy and blessed and kept decades after the Cross. Context doesn’t fit or reconcile with the rest of the scriptures. There is no scripture saying we can break any of God’s commandments which includes the Sabbath commandment, which we are told after the Cross remains for the people of God. Heb 4:9 NIV and being kept for all eternity Isaiah 66:22-23

Guess we will need to agree to disagree and wish you well in seeking Truth to His Word.

The term used is “handwritten dogma”. The KJV chose to use the word ordinances but it really means rules and regulations which is precisely what the 10 commandments are. So that’s basically just playing word games as if the 10 commandments are not dogma or rules & regulations. They’re the same thing.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Already addressed- the Ten Commandments are much greater than the letter as Jesus shows in this very passage.

No you didn’t address it you’re just dismissing the facts. You can’t sit there and say He was quoting the 10 commandments when He quoted 2 of the 10 commandments and 3 other commandments that were not part of the 10. He was quoting the law not exclusively the 10 commandments.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, exactly. They were eating from grain, that was still standing. If it had not been brought to the priest, it was violation of the law.
They want to make this about "rabbinic Error". Adding to the law. Bunk..... The Pharisees had traditions. There was no dispute concerning this between the priesthood and the Sanhedrin.

De 17:9 And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment:
De 17:10 And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:
De 17:11 According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.

I agree that the priests did add to the law in some cases like for example they had to determine what was considered to be work. Obviously since God had specifically commanded that they do not work on the Sabbath even during the harvest season that explicitly meant do not harvest on the sabbath. Anyone with open eyes can see that.