Did a traumatic experience make you unchurched?

[lismore]

I wouldn't put the organized churches off entirely. But no matter whether you are looking for an established church (with buildings and everything) to attend or an informal gathering, I think that it is a good idea to put what they teach to the test, like testing the water before getting in. Even if you are already in, you can always get out if the water gets too cold.

Its no problem attending a church until it gets too hierarchical or they want you to get too much into the system. You can give and receive in any gathering, without becoming a part of all the treacle that goes with institutionalsim.

 

[discernomatic]

Its no problem attending a church until it gets too hierarchical or they want you to get too much into the system. You can give and receive in any gathering, without becoming a part of all the treacle that goes with institutionalsim.

Making one play along is about control. I had joined a local group to see if I could find some kind of fellowship here, the area is nearly monopolized by one denomination. But the group was Marian, and after a short while they expected me to pray the rosary out loud with them, which I just could not do. One would start the prayer, and the others would finish it with her. It was expected that one pray out loud and also help start the prayers when one's turn came. All I wanted was to make acquaintances and maybe friends in my town, and maybe find out more about local religious groups in the process, but I was not willing to pray repetitive prayers to do it. According to my beliefs it is wrong to do so, and I could not have prayed those prayers without being severely bothered by my conscience.

Forcing others to pray like that, just to be able to be there, is control and may be linked with indoctrination, which can also be a control factor. The ladies were nice, and I respected their wish to pray the rosary although it did not fit to my beliefs, but after they wanted me to pray like that, I never went back.

 

[Tiggie]

yep- was burned big time by high up pastors in the church a few years ago. been struggling to get back on track ever since...

 

[discernomatic]

yep- was burned big time by high up pastors in the church a few years ago. been struggling to get back on track ever since...

(((Tiggie))), have you found someone to help you or at least a forum where you can share feelings and stories with others?

This link might help.

http://www.jamesfive19.com/Spiritual_Abuse_Links_Resources.html

If you need more specific information about forums tell me and I'll send you a PM.

 

[Tiggie]

(((Tiggie))), have you found someone to help you or at least a forum where you can share feelings and stories with others?

nope i havent. don't trust the church anymore. it's pretty corrupt as far as i can see. am safer with it being just Jesus and i. with what hapenned before i just can't go through it again.

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Fair enuf old bean. Trust takes time to be earnt again.

 

[MalcolmD]

Hello,

Interesting theme to this thread. For me it went both ways, first churched then unchurched. A deteriorated relationship with my father and his abuse culminated in being told to leave home and never come back again and propelled me to a spiritual quest that resulted in my salvation. The reality of that was so strong that I've never doubted my salvation through subsequent abuses by spiritual leadership where I've witnessed lives torn apart, divorces and even suicide. This carried on for years until I finally found some positive steps I could take to build my life into something worth living.

The spiritual abuse I spoke about occurred in a "shepherding" church. I was later called a "walk-out" by some former members who are still recovering from their traumatic experiences there. I saw more lives screwed up there to last a lifetime. I found myself at one point driving a taxi to support myself and found that I could meet enough people of different backgrounds in non-religious context to find enough stability to be able to stay away from abusive church relationships and not feel that vacuum that kept pulling me back into the vortex. Later I found out what I really needed, which was education. I embarked on a university degree at the tender age of 34, shortly thereafter choosing engineering. That was followed by a master's degree, some time in the work force and now a Ph.D. in medical physics. It's great to have a fulfilling life outside of church and it's the only answer I can offer to those who are currently suffering the same abuses I was. I haven't lost faith in God and I'm growing but the history of the pentecostal movement shows a disproportonate portion of poor people as compared to the general population. The greatest problem poor people face today is ignorance and the apathy among them to do something about it is their ruin. Church leadership by such people only propagates poverty more and with it the increasing abuses I feel all you who read this have experienced more than you care to remember. Anyhow, my life is steadily improving and has been for the last ten years, or more like fifteen by now. If anyone here is inspired to some extent to look into higher education I would personally recommend a professional degree. "Soft" skill degrees such as arts don't pay the bills and don't take one to a social and financial infrastructure that insulates them from spiritual abuse. Go for the money and immerse yourself in your studies. Knowledge is one of the noblest and most absorbing pursuits there is and it can take up so much of your time that you will legitimately be unable to attend church functions the way those with nothing else going on in their lives can and become prey to the predators. Proverbs 4:7 will back you up on that, particularly the phrase "all your getting." If you fight fire with fire you will win. God bless you and stay strong.

 

[TheAJKMan]

You can give and receive in any gathering, without becoming a part of all the treacle that goes with institutionalsim.

Which is a rather nice polite way of saying it lismore, my choice of words would probably tend to the more colourful side.

TheAJKMan

 

[TheAJKMan]

nope i havent. don't trust the church anymore. it's pretty corrupt as far as i can see. am safer with it being just Jesus and i. with what hapenned before i just can't go through it again.

Tiggie, a valid point, albeit I feel only a partial truth. Flandid makes a good point, trust takes time to come back, but only if you are open to it and to Gods move in that direction. You shouldn't shut yourself from fellowship with other believers and from developing a relationship with them. Trust will be a part of that process. I am not by any means suggesting that you just jump in feet first at the first opportunity. No, be open to God pointing you in that direction AND as the scriptures command, talk to God about it and use your discernment.

Just a thought from me, take it or leave it.

TheAJKMan

 

[Tiggie]

Tiggie, a valid point, albeit I feel only a partial truth. Flandid makes a good point, trust takes time to come back, but only if you are open to it and to Gods move in that direction. You shouldn't shut yourself from fellowship with other believers and from developing a relationship with them. Trust will be a part of that process. I am not by any means suggesting that you just jump in feet first at the first opportunity. No, be open to God pointing you in that direction AND as the scriptures command, talk to God about it and use your discernment.

Just a thought from me, take it or leave it.

TheAJKMan

thanks to you and flanders! yep- i will trust in Him with this. thing is i'm not in a great church right now- there are more holes in it than a sieve. i don't want to judge, because it's not my place, but by the same token i have to be cautious not to open myself to stuff that's not from God. I read a "secret worshipper" report on my church which laid bare exactly how I've been feeling about the place. it causes great disillusionment in who to trust in church leadership and who is worthy of trust.

 

[faithpilgrim]

I haven't been to church in over 20 years. I did have some very hurtful, manipulative, controling experiences in ICs. I was even stalked by some. However, that is not why I choose not to seek a church to attend. Ya see, I looked for a couple of years and could never find a place to go. I attended several and did much research on others.

One day I was walking in a field of tall grass. I had been praying where is your church Lord? I looked around me and say a few scattered bunches of golden grass admid the green field. The Lord impressed that the gold grass with 2 or 3 here, 5 or 10 over there and maybe 25 or 50 there were representive of the church scattered among the worlds religions, including false churches. I realized that we don't have to belong to a big group but each of us is a part of his church. We may be scattered but we are different from the rest of the world.

During the winter months, I noticed those gold grasses still standing in the sunny days while the green grass had withered and died.

I never searched for a church again. Rather I enjoyed fellowship where the Lord placed me and with who he placed in my path.

 

[strikerchris0411]

I haven't been to church in over 20 years. I did have some very hurtful, manipulative, controling experiences in ICs. I was even stalked by some. However, that is not why I choose not to seek a church to attend. Ya see, I looked for a couple of years and could never find a place to go. I attended several and did much research on others.

One day I was walking in a field of tall grass. I had been praying where is your church Lord? I looked around me and say a few scattered bunches of golden grass admid the green field. The Lord impressed that the gold grass with 2 or 3 here, 5 or 10 over there and maybe 25 or 50 there were representive of the church scattered among the worlds religions, including false churches. I realized that we don't have to belong to a big group but each of us is a part of his church. We may be scattered but we are different from the rest of the world.

During the winter months, I noticed those gold grasses still standing in the sunny days while the green grass had withered and died.

I never searched for a church again. Rather I enjoyed fellowship where the Lord placed me and with who he placed in my path.

Yeah thats kind of what happened to me. I went to church for a long time. Then I moved to the States and couldn't really find a church. Then soon realized I didn't need to find one

 

[discernomatic]

Hi faithpilgrim,

After years of not knowing any Christians, I met some like you, ironically just before we were going to move out of that area. I was looking for some way to donate lots of stuff since we were moving to another country and needed to get rid of ballast. Someone referred me to a Christian couple. They were more experienced and taught me much about God the few times we saw each other. I was able to bless them at that time with goods and money that they were sorely in need of. They spent a good deal of what they had on shipping needed things to East European countries. Our time together was so concentrated and so blessed. Each had what the other needed. I have not seen them in over five years, but still thank God that we were able to meet. "..where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." (Mt. 18:20) was never so clearly evident to me as then. I am generally not a sentimental person, but deeply cherish the short and sweet time we had together, it meant so much to me.

That couple meets with a few others every so often to fellowship and discuss scripture, but they don't call it church.

Good wishes to you.

 

[habeas]

I am dealing with recently becoming "unchurched," due to controlling leadership. A bishop in a small congregation seeking unbiblical (extra) tithing, attempting to control my husband's and my time and other aspects of our lives.

I've been praying about the situation. It occurred to me Jesus went into the Temple or synogogues with all the hypocrites and Pharisees and scribes. Jesus did not rebuke the widow for giving all she had, but honored her. You would think he would be castigating her as being a hoodwinked fleeced flock member.

But what Jesus did, is he did not run away, but went in and teached, confronted and corrected the religious authorities. He stood His ground when challenged, healed the sick, disobeyed the rules and regulations. He threw the money changers out of the temple. Of course, Jesus preached outside the temple and his entire life was a ministry and a sacrifice, but he never said, "don't go in there and listen to those hypocrites and pay tithes."

He said to do as they say and not as they do, to be as "righteous as the Pharisees." So, I feel that the Lord is dealing with me not to run this time, but to go in and confront, stand my ground. Stand on the rock, the four square corners of the truth, in His spirit and let them know I will not be bullied or pressured.

Then, if I am in Him and He in me, and I speak the truth in love (that's the challenging part ), and they still run me out of the church, then its not my problem. God will deal with them as he is dealing with me. I know the Lord will open another door. I have other churches lined up.

I think when we can change from within, even if we feel weak and intimidated, we should see if the Lord requiring this of us. Sometimes, its time to run, sometimes its not.

 

[faithpilgrim]

Hi dichromatic and strikercris,

Glad to meet you scattered here and there. My husband and I have had actually regular bible studies together with our son at times in the past. Now it is whenever. We also have had other family, neighbors, widows, etc. whom we would discuss scripture with on at different times. We never call it church. Sometimes we call it study and is more structured, other times it’s just sharing with another in an very unstructured way. Like the couple of years my hubby mowed for a widow down the street. She’d invite him in for a cool drink and they’d talk scripture. It became a regular habit for them. She told me she learned more during those discussions than in all her 60 years at church. She actually heard the gospel. Our whole family got involved with her but she has sense passed . What is so sad is that her own church forgot her during those years of being home bound.

I really think our lives should be like that, similar to the good Samaritain. We don’t look for good deeds to do; but rather stumble upon the opportunities as the Lord places them in our path. So we no longer look for meeting but enjoy them as the Lord provides. Sometimes for years and other times for just a few minutes. They are all precious regardless.

Habeas,
I also remember that if the disciples spoke the truth and they heard it not; they were to leave and shake the dust off their feet. I’ve done much dusting in the past and have been looking forward for over 20 years. The Lord has provided many opportunities to serve and fellowship here and there; but never in a church setting again.

God bless each of you.

 

[discernomatic]

Hi Faithpilgrim, I agree with your way of doing "church", I think that looks like faith in praxis. It reminds me a lot of Jesus Christ.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

............. Of course, Jesus preached outside the temple and his entire life was a ministry and a sacrifice, but he never said, "don't go in there and listen to those hypocrites and pay tithes."
He said to do as they say and not as they do, to be as "righteous as the Pharisees." .............

[more than]
"unless you are more righteous than the pastors, you will not see the kingdom of heaven."

and 'do as they say' => WHEN they are reading MOSES (as was their rule every Shabot,as directed by Yahweh and referred to by Yahshua and the apostles).

if you 'do as they say' today in most meetings, your righteousness will be non-existant, like as the scribes and pastors.
(found out the hard way, 20 years plus searching for a church that obeys G_d's Instructions, plain and simple; score: 1 or 2 that don't blatently and openly set aside G_d's Word out of 200 to 300 .)

 

[discernomatic]

But what Jesus did, is he did not run away, but went in and teached, confronted and corrected the religious authorities. He stood His ground when challenged, healed the sick, disobeyed the rules and regulations. He threw the money changers out of the temple.......I think when we can change from within, even if we feel weak and intimidated, we should see if the Lord requiring this of us. Sometimes, its time to run, sometimes its not.

I agree. But doing this can intensify their mistreatment of you. They will probably try to diminish you and what you say by discrediting you. It depends on whether you think you can take that kind of pressure. I know some that tried to send letters and tell friends about what happened. Their letters (polite and civil) were turned against them and their friends told not to listen, that they were gossipers. A couple was even badmouthed where they worked, the pastor and his wife tried to destroy their entire reputation and life.

After getting thrown out though, some said it was the best thing that ever happened to them, that they were finally free.

 

[ascribe2thelord]

Cool graphics, artist!

You guys seem to have a really off-the-wall, er, no-walls church. Is it really part of the Emergent Church Movement or were you just joking?

I'd prefer if you'd PM me to answer. Or start a new thread and give me the link. The theme doesn't really belong here.

discernomatic

There is really no "emergent church movement" because it's more of a restoration / primitivist Christianity than anything else. No one is emerging, but rather converging.

 

[Johnnz]

It' s not always best or successful to directly challenge the organisation. Paul preached in synagogues until he was no longer welcome, then he left and went elsewhere. Organisations are incredibly resistant to change. Few individuals can ever make much of a difference in a local congregation.