Destroying Religion

[GrowingSmaller]

Probably the worlds leading organised crime rings cut across cultures, faiths, ethnicity etc and are international in nature.

For example heroin trade can start off with the Taliban in Afgnenistan and end up with the English Defense League in England. These people hate one another, but they are potentially part of the same crime phenomeonon (although I am not wanting to impute anything about specific individuals or to stereotype the groups).

 

[Eudaimonist]

So they just assume people are religious because they don't think?

To be fair, no. You are being very uncharitable there. I think that their position is that many people (and not just religious people) haven't considered the right arguments and given them their proper due. No one can be expected to know all of those arguments without being told what they are.

Christians are also more likely to get married than atheists and agnostics, and obviously you can't get divorced if you never get married. Atheists and agnostics also make up a much smaller percentage of the population that Christians in the USA. In terms of the actual number of people divorced, Christians are actually fairly low.

That would only be the case if the divorce rate was measured against both married and unmarried people in one's group (or in the entire society), instead of against the married members of one's group. Are you suggesting that Barna had forgotten about this? I would be surprised if they had made a mistake that elementary. That is Statistics 101.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[KCfromNC]

It's not really religion unless we're worshiping a mortal authority structure, yeah?

Funny hats are also a requirement. Otherwise, anarchy.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

To be fair, no. You are being very uncharitable there. I think that their position is that many people (and not just religious people) haven't considered the right arguments and given them their proper due. No one can be expected to know all of those arguments without being told what they are.

That's the problem. What are the "right arguments"? If they don't automatically convert me am I irrational?
In fairness however, the original quote was from Wikipedia.

That would only be the case if the divorce rate was measured against both married and unmarried people in one's group (or in the entire society), instead of against the married members of one's group. Are you suggesting that Barna had forgotten about this? I would be surprised if they had made a mistake that elementary. That is Statistics 101.

(I couldn't post the whole data so here's the source: LINK)

Divorce Among Adults Who Have Been Married

Evangelical Christians: 26%
Born-again non-evangelical Christians: 33%
Notional Christians: 33%*
Associated with non-christian faith: 38%
Atheist of Agnostic: 30%
All born-again Christans: 32%
All non-born-again Christians: 33%
Protestant: 34%
Catholic: 28%

* This group call themselves Christians but claim to have no personal relationship with Jesus. They could be described s "Cultural Christians".

Atheists and agnostics only have a slightly lower divorce rate that most Christians. Certain group (Catholics and Evangelicals) actually had a slightly lower rate than atheists and agnostics. Christians as a whole have a lower divorce rate than non-Christian theists.


As I said earlier, atheists are less likely to get married than Christians anyway:

Among Agnostics and “no religion” adults, about 30 percent are singles never married and about 50 percent are married. Once again, the Agnostic and “no religion” are similar to one another while the Atheists’ marital status is more distinct.

- Who are America's Atheists and Agnostics?​

​

 

[Eudaimonist]

If they don't automatically convert me am I irrational?

I do not see how that is implied in the Wikipedia quote. I think that you are trying to interpret the quote uncharitably.

As I said earlier, atheists are less likely to get married than Christians anyway

So what? The statistics are based on adults who have been married. It doesn't include unmarried adults. So, the statistics do not lie.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

So what? The statistics are based on adults who have been married. It doesn't include unmarried adults. So, the statistics do not lie.

True, you can't measure the divorce rates of people who aren't married. If however the statistics are an indicator of how important marriage is to atheists and Christians, then obvious which group is more likely to get married in the first place is important too.

 

[quatona]

True, you can't measure the divorce rates of people who aren't married. If however the statistics are an indicator of how important marriage is to atheists and Christians, then obvious which group is more likely to get married in the first place is important too.

Does "isn´t married -> marriage isn´t important to him/her" really follow? I don´t think so.

 

[muslimsoldier4life]

I don't think Atheists (or New Atheists) are destroying religion. It's an individual effort to worship God. If you wanna see something funny, look at the pregnancy rates amongst teens from Atheists family and those from Conservative Christian families. Now that's some stats for your ass.

 

[Theofane]

It's not really religion unless we're worshiping a mortal authority structure, yeah?

Yeah.

That's why religion is ultimately profane. It's the finger pointing to the moon receiving more attention than the moon itself.

 

[Forum Cruiser]

Destroying most religions would be a great thing in my opinion. I'm a Christian by faith but dislike most of what I see from the world religions.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

Yeah.

That's why religion is ultimately profane. It's the finger pointing to the moon receiving more attention than the moon itself.

Yet you follow a religion. Why is that, if it is "profane"?

 

[muslimsoldier4life]

Destroying most religions would be a great thing in my opinion. I'm a Christian by faith but dislike most of what I see from the world religions.

SMH

 

[BeOfGoodCheer]

[QUOTE=" It's the finger pointing to the moon receiving more attention than the moon itself.[/QUOTE]

Food for thought. Thanks

 

[Eudaimonist]

If however the statistics are an indicator of how important marriage is to atheists and Christians, then obvious which group is more likely to get married in the first place is important too.

If atheists are getting married less often, that may mean that they take marriage much more seriously than theists do -- seriously enough to think twice before getting married. This may be an indication of prudence.

Alternatively, it could simply indicate that it is more difficult for atheists to find spouses in regions that are dominated by Christians.

There are many possible explanations. And you are gravitating towards the most uncharitable possibility.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

If atheists are getting married less often, that may mean that they take marriage much more seriously than theists do -- seriously enough to think twice before getting married. This may be an indication of prudence.

If that was the case then their divorce rate would be significantly lower than Christians. At best, it's only slightly lower.
Besides, a different study showed that atheists attitudes towards marriage was either no different from Christians:

The purpose of this study is to gather information about single men's perception on marriage. The researcher would like to find out if ethnicity, social status, religious beliefs, or having divorced parents have any effect on their perception of marriage ... The participants' ethnic or cultural or religious background did not influence their perception of marriage.

- Perceptions of marriage among single heterosexual men of Generation X ​

Or that Christians (and possibly other theists) had a better attitude towards marriage than average:

In this study (N = 239), Christian religious affiliation, low attachment avoidance, and intrinsic religious motivation contributed uniquely to positive marital attitudes; more serious relational status, low attachment avoidance, and intrinsic religious motivation contributed uniquely to marital readiness. Implications for family counseling practice and research are discussed.

- Sage Journals​

Alternatively, it could simply indicate that it is more difficult for atheists to find spouses in regions that are dominated by Christians.

According to one source I mentioned earlier ("Who are America's Atheists and Agnostics?") 50% of people who called themselves atheists were under 35. It could be simply that many of them haven't had the chance to get married yet.