Despite Obama’s Requests, Israel Will Not Turn Over Christian Holy Sites to Radical Muslims

Paxton25

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In May 2011 Barack Obama urged Israel to hand over half of Jerusalem, the Wailing Wall, The Temple Mount, Old Jerusalem, and the tomb of Jesus Christ to the Hamas-Fatah terrorist organizations.

On Friday – Palestinian terrorists set fire to Joseph’s Tomb – a Jewish holy site.

“Israel is the only protector of the sacred sites. You know what would happen if Israel were not there in Jerusalem? Do you know what would happen to the Old City? To the Church of the Holy Sepulchre? What would happen to the Western Wall? What would even happen to Muslim holy sites? You know what would happen? Exactly what the Taliban did in Afghanistan, exactly what ISIS is doing in Iraq and Syria." Israeli Ambassador to the US, Ron Dermer
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...n-over-christian-holy-sites-to-radical-islam/
 

Calvin N

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GOD is in control. I am not devaluing these sites but the holiest sites are the hearts of people who believe in Jesus Christ.
I look at the middle eastern crisis with a neutral standpoint. My prayers are always for the innocent people caught in the cross fire. I wish that war mongers that exist in Israel and Palestine can put aside their differences and work for the people.

It is tragic when innocents die in a bomb blast in Jerusalem and when innocents perish when Palestinian residential areas are bombed indiscriminately. We cannot blindly take sides.
 
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Ted
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Hi Paxton,

I did a brief search of the official White House records of any speeches or directives regarding the president and any mention of Jerusalem and was unable to find the information that your source claims to exist. Could you help me with this?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Paxton25

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Ted
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Hi Paxton,

Thanks. I'm assuming that the reference is to the comment that Israel should return to the borders that were established in the 1948 accord. While I personally don't agree, an argument can be made that those were the boundaries under which Israel was first established. However, I honestly doubt that it will happen.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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ken777

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https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...marks-president-middle-east-and-north-africa
In the meantime, this page has been removed and is not anymore accessible.
It is still there. The relevant paragraph is:
So while the core issues of the conflict must be negotiated, the basis of those negotiations is clear: a viable Palestine, a secure Israel. The United States believes that negotiations should result in two states, with permanent Palestinian borders with Israel, Jordan, and Egypt, and permanent Israeli borders with Palestine. We believe the borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states. The Palestinian people must have the right to govern themselves, and reach their full potential, in a sovereign and contiguous state.
 
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Ted
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Hi Paxton,

I'm also not sure that it can properly be classified as a 'request'. These were, as explained in the report, transcriptions of remarks that President Obama made before a state department meeting. Whether or not the president ever sat down with any diplomat from Israel and 'requested' that they go back to the 1967 borders is not made known in this report. This seems to be just his understanding of what would lessen the violence in the middle east. Personally, I don't think that he is right in this assessment, but neither am I convinced that he ever requested that Israel adopt his ideas concerning this issue.

Admittedly, many seem to think that Israel going back to the boundaries of 1948 would lessen the violence, but then that begs the question, then why did the violence start when they were defined by those borders? I think it clear to most believers that the nations surrounding Israel just want them gone and anything short of total displacement is unacceptable. The president likely doesn't understand it this way, based on these comments.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Crowns&Laurels

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GOD is in control. I am not devaluing these sites but the holiest sites are the hearts of people who believe in Jesus Christ.

Meh. Since when did God come down Himself and get something done? He works through men.
 
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Meh. Since when did God come down Himself and get something done? He works through men.

Hi C&L,

So, it is your understanding that God sent men out to hold back the wall of water on both the right hand and the left hand of the Israelites as they passed through the sea? It is your understanding that God had all men jump at the same time on the earth to cause the sun to stand still in the sky and at another time back up so that the shadow of the sun went backwards? It is your understanding that God sent men with great big wrenches to open up the fire hydrants of the deep to flood the whole earth? It is your understanding that the angel of death that passed through Egypt was just some deranged man that God got to go around killing all of the first born? It is your understanding that Jesus was actually born through the sexual relations of Joseph and Mary? It is your understanding that some invisible man wrote the words on the wall in Daniel's day at the king's banquet? It is your understanding that some man that God sent actually went in to Lazarus' tomb and revived him to life? It is your understanding that Moses actually wrote the words on the tablets of stone, but for some as yet unknown reason, gave God the credit?

It seems obvious that, while God can certainly work through the hands of men, He has no problem actually doing the work Himself.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Good for Israel! Tell that traitor Muslim terrorist sympathizer NO!

How long do we have to continue to suffer that living in our White house? God help us.

Hi YMF,

Well, the answer to your last question is about one more year. However, be careful what you wish for. The Scriptures portray to us that a day is coming when all the nations of the earth will rally against God and Israel. President Obama is not the man who will be in the office of the presidency when that day comes, but I imagine it will be someone far, far more sinister that 'we the people' have voted into office in that day. Maybe it will be Mr. Trump. He certainly portrays, to me, a much greater lack of faith in God than President Obama ever has.

No, President Obama is not a muslim. I don't understand why some won't give that up, but people are what people are. We all have different ideas and understandings especially when it comes to the motives and hearts of others. Personally, I believe that President Obama has done a satisfactory job in his duties as the president. Is he the best we've ever had? No, probably not. Is he the worst we've ever had? Absolutely not! He's just a man who has taken on the mantle of head of state for our nation as many men before him have done. From where I sit, he's done a reasonably good job in fulfilling his duties of that position. But don't you worry. In about one more year you'll have someone else to throw your poisonous darts at.

I believe, that God asks His children to be respectful to the governments that are established over us. I believe that respect means that we certainly don't make wild and unfounded accusations against those in government. For me, your calling the president a traitor and a muslim terrorist sympathizer, are wild and unfounded accusations. It would seem to me that if President Obama were some muslim terrorist sympathizer he certainly would not have had a hand in orchestrating the fall of the world's greatest muslim terrorist, Osama Bin Laden. Your accusations seem to come from a mind of hate and poison. A mind that believes it is our duty to fight tooth and nail against our established government. A mind that, for whatever reason, can't seem to separate the truth from the lie. Honestly, I don't think that's what God is encouraging in His children as we sojourn on this earth.

I believe that all believers should take the example of Daniel to heart. Daniel lived under the rule of a despot king. He held himself up as a god before his people. Yet, in all of Daniel's dealings with him, as far as we are told, he always treated the king with the utmost respect for his position. We are told that God held Daniel in the highest regard. God approved of all that Daniel did. He approved so much that when he sent His angel to tell him the future plans of the Messiah, he commended Daniel for his faithfulness and uprightness. We should all strive to be like Daniel in our understanding and words regarding our governments. Never once do we hear Daniel speaking to the other Israelites in derogatory terms concerning the king. Why is that, if that is what God expects of us?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Yeshuas_My_Freedom

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Thanks for your thoughts Ted. :)

I think a Christian is challenged when they see a failure in office who is suppose to represent, per Christian doctrine, the will of the God that set them there over us.
And as I read scripture when that leader falls from the way of Christ and betrays the trust he should have in God and in his responsibilities to lead a people entrusted to them by God, then the people of God are entitled to rebel. In that they pull their support in all ways they previously afforded it to that fallen leader.

I don't think Obama has to "be" a Muslim in order to work on their behalf. I think his issues that he has with America should always be considered when we watch how he represents this nation entrusted to his leadership. And most especially scrutinize how he relates to and with our enemies. And allies.
When he appears to support terrorists overseas and loathe Israel I take that to be the like-a-duck profile. If it walks like....
He doesn't have to prostrate himself eastward five times a day to be in allegiance with the cult of Mecca. If we don't recognize our enemies ourselves, they'll open our eyes to their presence the hard way.

The next one in will just take up the gauntlet left by their predecessor. Everything Hillary did was with the approval of Obama when she was SoS. And I'll say that she will be the next one in our White house.
Classist to the gills!
What a change that'll be. The lesser of two evils. Every voting period that's what's on the ballot. What a party.


Hi YMF,

Well, the answer to your last question is about one more year. However, be careful what you wish for. The Scriptures portray to us that a day is coming when all the nations of the earth will rally against God and Israel. President Obama is not the man who will be in the office of the presidency when that day comes, but I imagine it will be someone far, far more sinister that 'we the people' have voted into office in that day. Maybe it will be Mr. Trump. He certainly portrays, to me, a much greater lack of faith in God than President Obama ever has.

No, President Obama is not a muslim. I don't understand why some won't give that up, but people are what people are. We all have different ideas and understandings especially when it comes to the motives and hearts of others. Personally, I believe that President Obama has done a satisfactory job in his duties as the president. Is he the best we've ever had? No, probably not. Is he the worst we've ever had? Absolutely not! He's just a man who has taken on the mantle of head of state for our nation as many men before him have done. From where I sit, he's done a reasonably good job in fulfilling his duties of that position. But don't you worry. In about one more year you'll have someone else to throw your poisonous darts at.

I believe, that God asks His children to be respectful to the governments that are established over us. I believe that respect means that we certainly don't make wild and unfounded accusations against those in government. For me, your calling the president a traitor and a muslim terrorist sympathizer, are wild and unfounded accusations. It would seem to me that if President Obama were some muslim terrorist sympathizer he certainly would not have had a hand in orchestrating the fall of the world's greatest muslim terrorist, Osama Bin Laden. Your accusations seem to come from a mind of hate and poison. A mind that believes it is our duty to fight tooth and nail against our established government. A mind that, for whatever reason, can't seem to separate the truth from the lie. Honestly, I don't think that's what God is encouraging in His children as we sojourn on this earth.

I believe that all believers should take the example of Daniel to heart. Daniel lived under the rule of a despot king. He held himself up as a god before his people. Yet, in all of Daniel's dealings with him, as far as we are told, he always treated the king with the utmost respect for his position. We are told that God held Daniel in the highest regard. God approved of all that Daniel did. He approved so much that when he sent His angel to tell him the future plans of the Messiah, he commended Daniel for his faithfulness and uprightness. We should all strive to be like Daniel in our understanding and words regarding our governments. Never once do we hear Daniel speaking to the other Israelites in derogatory terms concerning the king. Why is that, if that is what God expects of us?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Hi YMF,

Yes, but...

There have now been some 40 presidents that have been elected to office in our nation. and while I certainly agree that God has established the governments of all the nations, I don't then carry that over to mean that He necessarily has approved or disapproved of any one sitting leader. If that were the case, then God sure made a huge mistake in setting Sadam Hussein and Adolf Hitler and Mohammar Ghaddafi and Idi Amin (I probably didn't spell any of those names right) in their places of leadership. I can look over the past presidents of our nation and find a few that probably didn't have God's agenda as their agenda. The president presiding when Roe v. Wade was being handled in the Supreme court comes to mind.

Personally, and again this is just my understanding, I don't think that President Obama has done anything necessarily against God's will. He is merely the leader of a nation and I think it quite clear that the majority of the populous of that nation are not born again believers. Got a lot of 'christians' but not so many born again believers. No president has ever stood before the people and said, "Look, we're not going to do this evil thing (whatever might be on the agenda in that time) because it is against God's law". Unfortunately, this president and all of those past have understood that their job is to run the nation and that they are subservient to some degree to the will of the people. If most of the people think abortion is OK, then obviously, based on Roe v. Wade abortions will be legal. If most of the people think that we should execute criminals, then criminals will be executed. You seem to hold the president as somehow always having to rule according to God's law and I honestly can't think of a one who seemed to have made that a point of leadership.

Of all the issues and things that have gone on in our nation from its inception that we may hold up as not following God's laws and commands, no president ever stood up and said that such a thing shouldn't be done because it is against God's laws and commands. Goodness, slavery, the subjugation of another human being by fear of death and beating to work for basically nothing to enrich some landowner or person of means was legal and applauded in this nation for many, many years under various presidents. We are a democratic nation with three branches of government and sometimes the legislature makes laws that don't seem to necessarily be in line with God's commands. Sometimes the Supreme court adjudicates laws in a manner that we don't see as being in line with God's commands (the now long running issue of gay rights and marriage comes to mind). Sometimes the president doesn't handle things the way we think they should be handled in light of God's laws and commands. But, it never has been that way. Yes, the mores and values of the people change over time and the presidency and the Supreme court and the legislature all have to roll with the will of the people.

Then you say that the way you read the Scriptures that when a government acts outside of the will of God, that the people have the entitlement to rebel. Really? Could you post that piece, or places of Scripture for me?

However, the issue I have with your post isn't that you don't seem to have a clue about, not only our government, but the governments of the world at large and their purpose in God's plan, but that you use lies to support your position. Now, you have made the statement, "Well, I don't think the president has to be a muslim to support Islamic terrorism." Fine! So, how has President Obama supported Islamic terrorism in your mind? Why in the world would you say that he loathes Israel? We give Israel tons of money and support and, while he has brought up issues that he thinks, like you, can be handled differently, which is absolutely his right as the president, he has never once come out against our continued support of Israel and I believe that he does understand Israel's place as the chosen people of God. But, he has the right to say to them things that he thinks might alleviate the immediate problems they are having without being labeled as 'loathsome' towards them. As I mentioned above, he continued and was successful in the hunt and execution of Osama Bin Laden. How can anyone think that he supports Islamic terrorism and yet we daily bomb muslim nations and we daily spend millions of dollars with ramped up security to prevent such terrorist acts, not only in our nation but also in others.

Where do you find all this fodder that you spew claiming that President Obama somehow supports Islamic or muslim terrorism? He's just a man, just like you, doing what he thinks is the best thing to accomplish his job responsibilities. He's not a god and he is not a defacto iron fist ruler who can just say to the nation, "This is how it's going to be because I say so and I have God's support in that". However, you're in for a rather startling surprise if you somehow think that any elected president is going to act that way.

To me, your rants seem like those of a disenfranchised citizen who feels that God has called him to rebel and protest against the government. For me, God has told me how I am to live my life under authority on this earth and I'm sticking with that. Maybe you should try some of the other practices that God says His children should hold to. There's the one about your being forgiven in the same way that you forgive others. If you feel that President Obama has somehow committed some great sin against God in the way that he is running the country, perhaps your being able to forgive him his sin might come into play at some later time in your life. I'd sure hate to think that the day would come when God would say to you, "You were awfully harsh on people and so I'm going to be pretty harsh with you". Remember friend, the Lord has said that the meek shall inherit the earth. I'm pretty sure he isn't talking about during this life, as it's painfully obvious that the meek haven't inherited the earth in this life. God asks you to be forgiving, meek, subservient to the authorities. It's the life I strive to live and I can tell you, it saves a lot of ulcer medication.

Try to understand that the president, the legislators, the justices, the local authorities below them, are, on the whole just people who are trying to do the best that they know to do. Are they perfect? No. Are there some among them who are just downright wicked? Yes. But I don't find President Obama to be in that lot. I believe that he has done an admirable job in steering our nation and no, I didn't vote for him. But, he is the duly elected person that the nation chose to set in that place and now it's may job to live under his authority with all the respect that his office deserves.

And smile and rejoice that in the span of about one year you'll have someone else to shoot your poisonous arrows into. You know, if man could establish a godly government, then Jesus wouldn't have to come back and reign for a thousand years to show us what that will be like.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Hi YMF,

Since you seem to want to hold President Obama responsible for everything the government does and also claim that he sees Israel as 'loathsome', perhaps a good hard look at this graphic might show you something of the truth:


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/he...n-in-aid-last-year-2015-10-30?dist=beforebell

If you bother to read the article you'll see that the nation of Israel received more aid than any other nation in the whole of the earth from the U.S. Predominantly for military aid. That has been the case throughout President Obama's presidency. How in the world one understands a president to hold a nation of people as 'loathsome' and yet approves the giving of some 3.1 billion in mostly military aid, more than any other nation on the earth to which we give aid, is absolutely beyond my ability to comprehend. Personally, I believe that you have a widely skewed idea of all that our president has done and is doing to support Israel. You fill your mind with all the conspiracy theories and half truths of some blabbering Christian hate monger and then go out and do likewise. Friend, if you'll just love God, the rest will fall naturally into place. One cannot love God and yet hate others. And yes, I equate what I've read from you up to this point as reflective of a heart that has a strong sense of hate harbored within. You seem to have made it your cause to defame and denigrate a man who doesn't see things as you do. However, your defamation and denigration are supported by half truths and just outright lies regarding the man's character and accomplishments.

Sadly, there are a lot of 'christians' like you, but as I've said, I don't think that's the kind of children that God is seeking. I share with a lot of people on these threads that seem to have some driving cause to belittle and defame and denigrate our president. However, whenever I look back at things they've posted when other presidents have been at the helm, they've most likely done the same thing regarding previous presidents. They are just totally disillusioned with the political process and the people within that process. Being a 'christian' isn't the goal. Being born again is the goal. Once someone reaches that goal then they have the Spirit of the living God within them to convict of sin and righteousness. Because those who are born again love God, then they naturally love others. Hateful or spiteful and damaging claims, innuendos or manifestos become a thing of the past. Follow God's instructions for your life. Learn to be honest in your assessments of people and their motives.

You're not happy with the way President Obama has handled the terrorist activity throughout the world? Fine, but don't claim that because he isn't doing things the way you would do them that he is then some supporter of their terrorism. Trust me, oh well that's probably a bad choice for you to accept, President Obama is neither a supporter of muslim terrorists or one who holds Israel up as loathsome. He's merely the man chosen to guide our nation for a few years and while he may have some differing ideas about how the Israeli/Palestinian conflict might be handled, that doesn't make him either of those claims that you have made against him.

As I posted before, I believe this thread is misleading. It takes some comment that President Obama made at a state department gathering and then claims that he 'requested' this action of Israel. There is no proof whatsoever that he ever laid his statements out as a request to the leaders of Israel. If he were to bring the subject up with them, I'm confident that it wouldn't be a request, but merely a suggestion to them that such a move might lessen the conflict. I'm just as confident that Israel would reply to him, "Thanks for your suggestions, but no thanks."

It's tiresome to me that there are so many who put every word the man says under some microscope of deceit and see every blink of an eye or twitch of a finger as holding some secret meaning as to his thoughts and motives. He's just a man doing the job that he was elected to do. He isn't the epitome of evil or the devil in prada. I believe him to be a loving family man who is honestly giving his best to his job. Is he handling every issue the way I would? Nope! But I hold no ill will towards the man for anything that I'm aware of that he's done. No! I didn't vote for him. But I'm assured that even though I didn't support his campaign, he's a decent guy. But I understand that being president is one of those jobs where a good part of the people you govern aren't going to like you and good part of the people are. It comes with the territory as has been well exampled over the last 50 years, at least. But, I don't think that born again believers should be a part of the diatribe. Let's support him and when he's gone, let's support the next guy. Just think, there are probably people at your job that don't like you much and the way you handle things either. Do you think they should go around telling your co-workers lies and half-truths about you? Now, they may, but I'm asking if you think it's the right thing to do?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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