• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Despite boastful claims, Falluja fighting rages on

Sycophant

My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard
Mar 11, 2004
4,022
272
45
Auckland
✟28,070.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Zoot said:
Good plan, Syco. I look forward to it.

Indeed, expect it to arrive in 5 - 9 business days (or so Amazon says, I am betting on 4)

Here, incidentally for those people who are unable to come to my place to watch DVDs, are a few comments from some of the reviews of this film at Amazon.

"Control Room" is a revealing look behind the scenes of Al-Jazeera Satellite Channels' coverage of the war in Iraq, from the American buildup to invasion in March 2003 until shortly after Baghdad was captured. Al-Jazeera was founded in 1996 as the first independent television news network in the Arab world. It's Western style coverage quickly made the Al-Jazeera persona non grata is several Arab nations for covering viewpoints critical of government policies. Al-Jazeera takes the view that objectivity is impossible to achieve in news coverage, and it is dangerously naive to think otherwise. At least in theory, the network attempts to give voice to all sides of the issue, encompassing all biases. If everybody hates them, Al-Jazeera believes it's doing it's job. If only one side hates them, their coverage must be inexcusably biased. I should mention that this is a typical Arab perspective on the news media. And it's certainly how things worked out with the United States. President Bush has accused Al-Jazeera of being "the mouthpiece of Osama Bin Laden", while Iraq banned Al-Jazeera for broadcasting "American propaganda".

The different audio commentary tracks also promote more food for thought from the sometimes very different perspectives of the various commentators. When was the last time you saw a movie with audio commentary from a U.S. Marine Captain and another audio commentary with Al Jazeera producers?

This one might be a bit more agreeable for some posters here:
Jehane Noujaim's Control Room follows the very secular and anti-American Al-Jazeera journalists as they travel with our military forces during the invasion of Iraq. These non-religious Arabs paradoxically enjoy the benefits of Western Civilization while holding it in utter contempt. Islamic fundamentalism doesn't even slightly interest them. The vast majority attended school in the despised occidental countries. They are the intellectual disciples of ultra-leftists Noam Chomsky and Edward Said. Truth does not exist and everything is relative. The very concept of objectivity is a supposed fiction employed to deceive the dispossessed of the earth. Saddam Hussein may have been a monster who enslaved and tortured his people---but he is still an Arab leader. The reporters of Al-Jazeera have a difficult time cheering on the coalition soldiers who are about to liberate Iraq. One woman even blurts out that she doesn't know who to favor in the conflict. Bitterness and envy best explains their attitude. The Arab world is today a third rate power. Little remains of its dominance of some five hundred years ago. Existential anguish and self pity underpins the mindset of Al-Jazeera's editorial policy and news reporting.

I used to wonder why Al Jazeera gave airtime to Osama bin Laden and terrorists threatening hostages with beheading. I thought tensions in the region would probably be considerably reduced if such hate mongers couldn't get heard.

After viewing the DVD however I have a different perspective. Al Jazeera may be one of the only "pure" news organizations on the planet. They apparently do not feel a responsibility to 'spin' the news or filter what they show in order to support any viewpoint, even if the content is disturbing. With them all information is news, regardless of viewpoint or origin. They have invited American commanders to speak on the air, as well as Iraqi defense ministers. Madmen as well as the reasonable. To them it's all news.

I haven't seen it yet, but it sounds good. So I'll let you know in 5 - 9 business days what I think of it.
 
Upvote 0

admtaylor

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2003
1,171
83
52
Overland Park, Kansas
Visit site
✟1,768.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Although I still hold that Al Jazeera is a propeganda machine, I believe the point that I was trying to make is that no claims of full control of the city were made by the military. In fact the opposite was stated. Therefore I think that fact and the fact that it didn't make it into Al Jazeera's report further supports their propeganda motive.
 
Upvote 0

Sycophant

My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard
Mar 11, 2004
4,022
272
45
Auckland
✟28,070.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
admtaylor said:
Although I still hold that Al Jazeera is a propeganda machine, I believe the point that I was trying to make is that no claims of full control of the city were made by the military. In fact the opposite was stated. Therefore I think that fact and the fact that it didn't make it into Al Jazeera's report further supports their propeganda motive.

I've certainly seen and heard claims about the US's full control. Not specifically from the military, but I am certain I saw the guys on Fox talking about it the other night.

"The US military says it has taken full control of Falluja" (stuff.co.nz via Reuters)

"The U.S. military says it has taken control of Falluja" (International Herald Tribune)

"U.S. forces have said that those bridges remain unsafe, even though the military has said it has taken almost full control of Falluja." (CNN/Reuters)
 
Upvote 0

Zoot

Omnis Obstat
Sep 7, 2003
10,797
548
45
State Highway One
Visit site
✟36,210.00
Faith
Buddhist
Well, it also depends on what you mean by "full control". I mean, the US also has full control of Boston, but there are still crimes being committed there. The US declared the invasion finished over a year ago; current activities are defined as cleaning up, rebuilding, stabilising, etc.
 
Upvote 0

BobbieDog

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2004
2,221
0
✟2,373.00
Faith
Other Religion
The ongoing argument about the meaning of ongoing resistance in Iraq, has to do with the fostered vision of American invulnerability.
All imperial power foster this mythology: it multiplies their hit strength on the ground; it enables the threat of force to stand for actual deployment.
The US wants to foster images of die-hard, foriegn, terroristic fanatics: who when they come up against the trained soldiery of the US, just cannot compete.
Well, not so. These largely local nationalists, posture and deploy professionally. They move fluidly and flexibly. Even only with small arms and light ordinance, they hold their own with all that the armoured backed US troops can throw at them: only air power brings US advantage.
The final myth they have to destroy in Fallujah, before firepower inevitably sees them over-run: has to do with re-supply; have they been able to re-supply during the siege.
It's all a matter of definition and media perception. The US has failed to show it can quickly crush insurrgency. The resistance has shown, that if they can get answer to US air power, then they can hold their own against US ground forces, in urban setting.
The lessons being learned in Fallujah, may be applied beyond Iraq. If the US spreads the conflict to neighbouring countries, as it did in Vietnam1: then US forces may well have to be met in the field in other cities.
It leaves it all dirty of course. Fighting the overwhelming military force of an Imperial power, is always a human tragedy.
 
Upvote 0

Cowboy_VCIA

Active Member
Nov 6, 2004
43
2
44
Memphis, TN
✟30,168.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Actually Fallujah is in the control of the US and Iraqis. Not the terrorist. Get some real information people. It's not that hard to find. Hell ask the Military personnel they can actually to a certain amount tell you what is going on.
 
Upvote 0

arnegrim

...still not convinced it was the wrong one.
Jun 2, 2004
4,852
140
California
✟28,223.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
BobbieDog said:
For we believe that the Arab and the Muslim are entitled to their own voices, and we choose to listen to them with respect, open mind, and warm heart.
This is absolutely irrelevant to my point.
 
Upvote 0

arnegrim

...still not convinced it was the wrong one.
Jun 2, 2004
4,852
140
California
✟28,223.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
BobbieDog said:
Well, not so. These largely local nationalists, posture and deploy professionally. They move fluidly and flexibly. Even only with small arms and light ordinance, they hold their own with all that the armoured backed US troops can throw at them:
Considering the US is concerned about any unnecessary and/or civilian casualties and the insurgents are not...
 
Upvote 0

Megachihuahua

Ex-Christian
Jul 30, 2003
1,963
65
26
World heroin capital(Baltimore), Maryland
Visit site
✟32,439.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
BobbieDog said:
The ongoing argument about the meaning of ongoing resistance in Iraq, has to do with the fostered vision of American invulnerability.
All imperial power foster this mythology: it multiplies their hit strength on the ground; it enables the threat of force to stand for actual deployment.
The US wants to foster images of die-hard, foriegn, terroristic fanatics: who when they come up against the trained soldiery of the US, just cannot compete.
Well, not so. These largely local nationalists, posture and deploy professionally. They move fluidly and flexibly. Even only with small arms and light ordinance, they hold their own with all that the armoured backed US troops can throw at them: only air power brings US advantage.
The final myth they have to destroy in Fallujah, before firepower inevitably sees them over-run: has to do with re-supply; have they been able to re-supply during the siege.
It's all a matter of definition and media perception. The US has failed to show it can quickly crush insurrgency. The resistance has shown, that if they can get answer to US air power, then they can hold their own against US ground forces, in urban setting.
The lessons being learned in Fallujah, may be applied beyond Iraq. If the US spreads the conflict to neighbouring countries, as it did in Vietnam1: then US forces may well have to be met in the field in other cities.
It leaves it all dirty of course. Fighting the overwhelming military force of an Imperial power, is always a human tragedy.
Well, considering 30-something US deaths to 1000 terrorists, I'd say you just like to be cynical.

No matter how much you hope to the contrary, a few thousand nuts with AK-47s aren't going to be able to shoot down a B-52. The rebels are simply to crazy, to stupid, and to disorganized to win even a partial victory. Note my siggy picture: you can't stop the U.S.:p
 
Upvote 0

arnegrim

...still not convinced it was the wrong one.
Jun 2, 2004
4,852
140
California
✟28,223.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
  • Like
Reactions: Megachihuahua
Upvote 0
D

dumb american

Guest
Cowboy_VCIA said:
Actually Fallujah is in the control of the US and Iraqis. Not the terrorist. Get some real information people. It's not that hard to find. Hell ask the Military personnel they can actually to a certain amount tell you what is going on.
Actually Satan is there, a marine told us so. The question is as to weither God on judgement day will except the propaganda you espouse, as an excuse for the destruction and exploitation of numerous people caught in the crossfire of those dancing with the devil. Jesus loves you no matter how much you color the truth about insurgency with blanket terms like "terrorist".
 
Upvote 0

admtaylor

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2003
1,171
83
52
Overland Park, Kansas
Visit site
✟1,768.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Ovbiously no matter how much reports say that fighting still continues and will for several days. And no matter how many officials and troops on the ground agree with that. And no matter how many times that's pointed out here in this thread to counter the insinuation that the opposite is being stated. This empty argument is still going to continue. See ya. :wave:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Megachihuahua
Upvote 0

Megachihuahua

Ex-Christian
Jul 30, 2003
1,963
65
26
World heroin capital(Baltimore), Maryland
Visit site
✟32,439.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
^exactly, admtaylor. It doesn't really matter at all that the fighting is continuing. What matters is that the coalition will win, not the terrorists. But that is hardly an argument as the opposite is untenable.
 
Upvote 0

admtaylor

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2003
1,171
83
52
Overland Park, Kansas
Visit site
✟1,768.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Megachihuahua said:
^exactly, admtaylor. It doesn't really matter at all that the fighting is continuing. What matters is that the coalition will win, not the terrorists. But that is hardly an argument as the opposite is untenable.


removed post because I misread quoted post and because it wasn't very nice.... :o :blush:
 
Upvote 0