Descending Upon the Mt. of Olives?

[ewq1938]

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Also, Christ returns when the 7th trump sounds and here the resurrection happens after that

 

[DamianWarS]

That is usually how the good teachers I like teach it. I just don't see it saying Jesus will descend to the Mt. of Olives, but do see in Isa 63:1 that he will be coming from Edom, and in Zec 14:4 that he will set his feet upon the Mt. of Olives. To dogmatically say that he will descend to the Mt. of Olives isn't supported by the exact wording of Scripture.

I don't think we can dogmatically say anything. in terms of prophetic stuff we have broad strokes but not the fine detail which seems to be where this is heading. There's nothing wrong with trying to figure this stuff out but we need to hang on these dogmas of the fine detail loosely.

 

[Ken Rank]

Actually failure to accept what is plainly written will lead one astray. No third coming is written in the scriptures. If Jesus returns and leaves and returns again let's see the verses showing that.

You're right... you go through all the prophets and NT and weigh them together and you don't get 3 comings. There is a reason why ancient Jewish sages saw two messiah's.... Messiah ben Joseph the Suffering Servant and Messiah ben David the Conquering King. They didn't know it would be one who comes twice, but they saw a "twice" in the same "Scriptures" that Paul tells us we can use for instruction in righteousness.

 

[Ken Rank]

I don't think we can dogmatically say anything. in terms of prophetic stuff we have broad strokes but not the fine detail which seems to be where this is heading. There's nothing wrong with trying to figure this stuff out but we need to hang on these dogmas of the fine detail loosely.

Amen... and I would go a step further... why does it matter so much to people? Yes we should know the times in which we live... but we have been called to do a WORK which involves reflecting the Lord we serve to the world around us... teaching those who want to learn. That is where the weight should be placed...not on a event we have no control over and can't know with 100% certainty when it will happen anyway.

The only PURE prophecy experts.... are the ones who study events after they have come to pass. Fun to talk about... not something to divide over!!!

 

[Greg Merrill]

Jesus didn't leave on a horse...literal or symbolism. Acts say's Jesus will return the same way.

Acts 1:11 "...this same Jesus, ...shall so come in LIKE manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." "LIKE" manner, not exactly the same way.

 

[ewq1938]

Barnes:

In like manner ... - In clouds, as he ascended. See the Act_1:9 note; 1Th_4:16

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Luk_21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

[PanDeVida]

I see it this way...Jesus returns twice. The first time in the clouds when He raptures His believers then a second time when He comes to the Mt. of Olives.

57, where in Scripture does it say that Jesus Christ will RETURN TWICE?

We know that there will be a second coming of Christ. What you are saying is that Jesus Christ is coming three times, surely this is a false Doctrine.

 

[Greg Merrill]

57, where in Scripture does it say that Jesus Christ will RETURN TWICE?

We know that there will be a second coming of Christ. What you are saying is that Jesus Christ is coming three times, surely this is a false Doctrine.

Your logic/reasoning reminds me of the denials of Peter. A couple of scriptures "say" Peter would deny the Lord 3 times. Study all the verses out and you will find that Peter denied the Lord 6 times, though there is not a verse that says that. Luke says Peter ran to the tomb of Jesus. That is true, but when the movie based solely on Luke portrays only Peter running to the tomb, those that know the other scriptures know that is not the way it happened. Peter AND JOHN ran to the tomb.

 

[-57]

Rev 19 isn't the second coming but something that happens after Jesus has returned.

It's Christ returning for Armageddon.

 

[-57]

Its in those two verses.

If you say so.

 

[ewq1938]

It's Christ returning for Armageddon.

Not returning. He already had returned when the rapture happened. This is him showing up for Armageddon after his second coming had occurred.

 

[-57]

57, where in Scripture does it say that Jesus Christ will RETURN TWICE?

We know that there will be a second coming of Christ. What you are saying is that Jesus Christ is coming three times, surely this is a false Doctrine.

yes, you disagree so it must be false doctrine.

Re-read post 13.

 

[-57]

Acts 1:11 "...this same Jesus, ...shall so come in LIKE manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." "LIKE" manner, not exactly the same way.

They would have to argue Jesus ascended on a horse.

 

[-57]

Not returning. He already had returned when the rapture happened. This is him showing up for Armageddon after his second coming had occurred.

Jesus shows up at the rapture in the clouds...then again on a horse for Armageddon.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus shows up at the rapture in the clouds...then again on a horse for Armageddon.

Still isn't two returns. He returns, meets with the saints then at some point travels to
Armageddon for that battle. That's one return.

 

[-57]

Still isn't two returns. He returns, meets with the saints then at some point travels to
Armageddon for that battle. That's one return.

Rev 19:17 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.

Heaven opens up....would not be possible if christ had already returned.

 

[ewq1938]

Rev 19:17 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.

Heaven opens up....would not be possible if christ had already returned.

There are three heavens. One is merely the sky. All is happening is Christ is arriving to this place from another place he was on the Earth. I believe he goes to Mt Zion and the Mt of Olives, not sure is first, then at some point travels to Armageddon.

 

[-57]

There are three heavens. One is merely the sky. All is happening is Christ is arriving to this place from another place he was on the Earth. I believe he goes to Mt Zion and the Mt of Olives, not sure is first, then at some point travels to Armageddon.

Nice try.

 

[ewq1938]

Nice try.

As I said, it can mean many things including the sky. I know this I have studied this Greek word. Please try to make your responses more substantive so they help the discussion rather than be hollow and petty.

G3772
οὐρανός
ouranos
Thayer Definition:
1) the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it
1a) the universe, the world
1b) the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced
1c) the sidereal or starry heavens
2) the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: perhaps from the same as G3735 (through the idea of elevation); the sky
Citing in TDNT: 5:497, 736

 

[Greg Merrill]

Rev 19:17 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.

Heaven opens up....would not be possible if christ had already returned.

I don't see why not, seeing He first returns for the saints in the air, and then 7 yrs later He returns with the saints all the way to the ground to set up his millennial kingdom after the Tribulation is over.