Denominations

fhansen · Apr 5, 2021

Hope1960 said:
This is OT but there’s the issue that the RCC won’t marry a couple if the man is wheelchair-bound and unable to consummate the marriage. Unless I’m mistaken, but that’s what I’ve always heard.

The church considers marriages to be valid only if they can be consummated. Otherwise the definition of a sacramental marriage isn't met and the couple are living essentially as friends anyway. And such a relationship would be dissolvable without recourse to the church.

fhansen · Apr 5, 2021

Albion said:
In short, the church changed its position on a moral issue.

That's what was said in the first place and brought the wave of denials that followed in response.

No, your position is that the indissolubility of marriage has been compromised by streamlining policies. And that doesn't necessarily follow.

If Francis's streamlining changed the criteria by which a marriage is judged to be valid or invalid, and therefore whether or not an annulment should be granted, that would be significant. If, OTOH, his purpose is simply to make the annulment process quicker so people don't have to wait the year or more which had been typical, that's a different beast.

FaithT · Apr 5, 2021

fhansen said:
The church considers marriages to be valid only if they can be consummated. Otherwise the definition of a sacramental marriage isn't met and the couple are living essentially as friends anyway. And such a relationship would be dissolvable without recourse to the church.

I totally disagree with that teaching.

Albion · Apr 5, 2021

fhansen said:
No, your position is that the indissolubility of marriage has been compromised by streamlining policies. And that doesn't necessarily follow.

The policy has been changed and this is a moral issue. So the church has indeed changed its teachings as was said originally. But it was just one example.

If Francis's streamlining changed the criteria by which a marriage is judged to be valid or invalid, and therefore whether or not an annulment should be granted, that would be significant.

And so it is.

fhansen · Apr 5, 2021

Albion said:
The policy has been changed and this is a moral issue. So the church has indeed changed its teachings as was said originally. But it was just one example.

And so it is.

And that has not been demonstrated in any way.

Jaxxi · Apr 5, 2021

Albion said:
"They" are all still Christians, but it's clear that serious Christians, Bible-believing Christians, can still hold serious and intelligent differences of opinion about important matters of faith.

What's clear? They can all hold whatever differences they want to. It shouldn't divide the church. Here is my point. Ready for this?
According to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity (CSGC) at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, there are approximately 41,000 Christian denominations and organizations in the world today.

41,000. Tell me that is necessary.

Albion · Apr 6, 2021

Jaxxi said:
What's clear? They can all hold whatever differences they want to. It shouldn't divide the church. Here is my point. Ready for this?
According to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity (CSGC) at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, there are approximately 41,000 Christian denominations and organizations in the world today.

41,000. Tell me that is necessary.

Yeh, different statisticians come up with different totals, but that's only a minor criticism. There are thousands of denominations, it's certain.

Still, that's not the issue here. The issue is whether one of them that we can agree on is 100% right and all the others are wrong--in a significant way--and also that being wrong makes those people not be fellow Christians.

I think you are of the opinion that being a Christian transcends denominational lines and affiliations, so there really shouldn't be any argument on that account that I can see.

East of Eden · Apr 6, 2021

Hope1960 said:
The closest ELCS to me is farther than I’m willing to drive. There aren’t any Anglican nearby either (is that the same as Episcopalian)?

Check out the Anglican Communion of North America if you like a conservative liturgical church.

The Anglican Church in North America

East of Eden · Apr 6, 2021

Jaxxi said:
What's clear? They can all hold whatever differences they want to. It shouldn't divide the church. Here is my point. Ready for this?
According to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity (CSGC) at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, there are approximately 41,000 Christian denominations and organizations in the world today.

41,000. Tell me that is necessary.

I thought diversity was good?

FaithT · Apr 6, 2021

East of Eden said:
Check out the Anglican Communion of North America if you like a conservative liturgical church.

The Anglican Church in North America

I had an email conversation with my pastor and I feel much better now. It’s all good. Besides I don’t think I’d like a conservative liturgical church, but even if I did, there’s no ACNA churches around here.

FaithT · Apr 6, 2021

Silverback said:
As you may expect, I'm not a fan...creationist all the way, but I would be open to an older earth view than the 6000 years being thrown around today. I don't have a problem with science, but I think it needs to be viewed as supporting creation, not opposing it.

Additionally, those politicians who claim to support the view that science is always correct...like AOC, Pelosi, and Sanders...tells me a lot.

Evolution is not a view I can really get behind.

My pastor is ok with me disagreeing with the 6000 year age of the earth theory.

Albion · Apr 6, 2021

East of Eden said:
Check out the Anglican Communion of North America if you like a conservative liturgical church.

The Anglican Church in North America

For any other readers who might care, the only members of the Anglican Communion in North America are The Episcopal Church and the Anglican Church of Canada.

For a Moderate alternative, see the "Anglican Church in North America."

For a list of the Conservative/Traditionalist Anglican bodies, see "Continuing Anglican movement" on Wikipedia.

Jaxxi · Apr 6, 2021

Albion said:
Yeh, different statisticians come up with different totals, but that's only a minor criticism. There are thousands of denominations, it's certain.

Still, that's not the issue here. The issue is whether one of them that we can agree on is 100% right and all the others are wrong--in a significant way--and also that being wrong makes those people not be fellow Christians.

I think you are of the opinion that being a Christian transcends denominational lines and affiliations, so there really shouldn't be any argument on that account that I can see.

Right! Well I think since there are thousands some of them believe the same things, they just call themselves something different. Since the living word of God is a double-edged sword, it is easy to misinterpret what it means. For example, the Bible is the one book we have that covers the physical and the spiritual world. So what a "scholar" might call a contradiction in the Bible is just a truth relating to one of the two worlds but the "scholar" in his " science" cannot discern the two worlds seeing that if he is an Atheist, he does not believe in one of them. So, since none of us are God, and it would be audacious to say we know exactly what He means, we cannot say who has it 100% right because we are merely humans falling short of the glory of God.

Jaxxi · Apr 6, 2021

East of Eden said:
I thought diversity was good?

Diversity is overrated. Would the world not be free of racism and sexism if we all saw ourselves as " the human race" and " One people" under God? If we were mature and civilized enough to see ourselves as a one nation world without the government, no one would go hungry. Even the US motto is United we stand, divided we fall so is diversity good?

Astroqualia · Apr 6, 2021

Hope1960 said:
For those of you who are theistic evolutionists, what denomination are you? I was raised Catholic but long story short, it didn’t stick. I joined the Lutheran LCMS two or so years ago but they don’t accept evolution and while I thought I didn’t believe in macro evolution, either, now I’m not so sure. Maybe I’d be happier in a more theologically liberal church. But I really like the people I’ve met.
Suggestions would be helpful.

Why not just believe what the Bible says? Too many attempt to mix the satanic teachings of man with scripture in our modern era. Next, people will be claiming to be Christian yet worship the aliens that atheists are now starting to say are the gods who created man.

Jaxxi · Apr 7, 2021

Astroqualia said:
Why not just believe what the Bible says? Too many attempt to mix the satanic teachings of man with scripture in our modern era. Next, people will be claiming to be Christian yet worship the aliens that atheists are now starting to say are the gods who created man.

See and that is such a joke. That has red flags all over it. Some things are so frustrating for me because I can see them plain as day where others cannot. Does that ever frustrate you? Like they may honestly think they have proof and it makes sense and blah blah. The Bible says something about a chariot or something but God is not an alien! Wow it is really going to come to that. How sad. You could be right.

Job 33:6 · Apr 18, 2021

Hope1960 said:
My pastor is ok with me disagreeing with the 6000 year age of the earth theory.

If you have any questions about geology, I am a geologist. Feel free to ask.

Otherwise enjoy the intellectual freedom.

FaithT · Apr 18, 2021

KomatiiteBIF said:
If you have any questions about geology, I am a geologist. Feel free to ask.

Otherwise enjoy the intellectual freedom.

What does your last sentence mean? Sorry in advance.

Job 33:6 · Apr 18, 2021

Hope1960 said:
What does your last sentence mean? Sorry in advance.

I was referring to the freedom of being able to acknowledge and embrace observations of physical reality. If you're new to old earth creationism, it will make sense with time.

Job 33:6 · Apr 19, 2021

Hope1960 said:
What does your last sentence mean? Sorry in advance.

More on that.

I remember many moons ago when I first started studying geology.

Sometimes just seeing is believing. And there were days where I just cried out to the Lord, or maybe it was the holy spirit groaning through me. Because creation, when you see it in full, it does not lie. It tells God's word with pure clarity.

Part of me felt betrayed. How could I have been so blind? How could the church even have made such grave mistakes. Was I lied to? We were less perfect than I could ever have imagined.

It has taken many years of continued study, continued trips, continued digging. Pondering endless questions. Freedom and peace with the understanding of billions of years of deep and rich earth history took time to come to terms with. But when it is seen in full, God is great.

Denominations

Oldbie

Oldbie

Well-Known Member

Facilitator

Oldbie

Half-ready for Anything.....

Facilitator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Facilitator

Half-ready for Anything.....

Half-ready for Anything.....

Born-again Truthseeker

Half-ready for Anything.....

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency