• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Denominations

Discussion in 'Theistic Evolution' started by Hope1960, Apr 2, 2021.

  1. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

    +8,561
    Presbyterian
    Single
    The mainline / liberal denominations generally have a broader range of beliefs. I'm not aware of any that specifically denies Christ's bodily resurrection, but some members and even a some pastors may. (It's very unusual to deny his resurrection. But some don't think that implies the empty tomb.) The real presence differs among theological tradition. The mainline and conservative versions of each tradition typically take the same position. Eschatology also varies a lot among Christians, even conservative ones.

    It's similar with gender and sexual issues. Nobody is going to force these on members, and there is a range of views, particularly on abortion. However you may be expected to accept gay and transgender people as fellow Christians and even leaders.

    I agree that this often goes along with acceptance of evolution. While there are ways to interpret Genesis as consistent with evolution, I think generally churches that accept it don't believe in Biblical inerrancy, and thus accept physical and social science, as well as modern Biblical study. There are plenty of people in CF who accept some of these things and not others, but the tendency is that once a church moves away from inerrancy, they are open to the whole range of modern views.
     
  2. Ayenew

    Ayenew New Member

    76
    +42
    Ethiopia
    Oriental Orthodox
    Single
    I don't think there is a sound reason for a church to believe in evolution. And to be liberal on this either. The bottom line is I don't think this should be a major issue to change denominations. Focusing on God and our relationship with Him is important.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  3. CaliforniaJosiah

    CaliforniaJosiah Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,253
    Lutheran
    Private
    US-Republican

    Yup.

    Exactly.

    True, there has been a Convention Resolution in the LCMS that denounces classic evolution. However, there is NOTHING in the Lutheran Confessions about this.... and LCMS folks are not required to agree. Indeed, as an LCMS person myself, I can assure you LOTS of LCMS hold to some form of evolution (and some don't).

    I think it would be ... unfortunate.... to leave the LCMS church over a non-binding Convention resolution to go to a church that has wrong views of Justification, of the Sacraments and so much more... that supports abortion, etc.

    I suspect.... no matter which denomination a parish belongs to.... there's probably going to be SOMETHING it as somehow said that you'll disagree with. Heck, I disagree with myself all the time.



    .
     
  4. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

    +2,065
    Catholic
    Married
    These are some Catholic teachings, quite general, on origins, in case you haven't seen them:

    282 Catechesis on creation is of major importance. It concerns the very foundations of human and Christian life: for it makes explicit the response of the Christian faith to the basic question that men of all times have asked themselves:120 "Where do we come from?" "Where are we going?" "What is our origin?" "What is our end?" "Where does everything that exists come from and where is it going?" The two questions, the first about the origin and the second about the end, are inseparable. They are decisive for the meaning and orientation of our life and actions.

    283 The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers. With Solomon they can say: "It is he who gave me unerring knowledge of what exists, to know the structure of the world and the activity of the elements. . . for wisdom, the fashioner of all things, taught me."121

    284 The great interest accorded to these studies is strongly stimulated by a question of another order, which goes beyond the proper domain of the natural sciences. It is not only a question of knowing when and how the universe arose physically, or when man appeared, but rather of discovering the meaning of such an origin: is the universe governed by chance, blind fate, anonymous necessity, or by a transcendent, intelligent and good Being called "God"? And if the world does come from God's wisdom and goodness, why is there evil? Where does it come from? Who is responsible for it? Is there any liberation from it?

    285 Since the beginning the Christian faith has been challenged by responses to the question of origins that differ from its own. Ancient religions and cultures produced many myths concerning origins. Some philosophers have said that everything is God, that the world is God, or that the development of the world is the development of God (Pantheism). Others have said that the world is a necessary emanation arising from God and returning to him. Still others have affirmed the existence of two eternal principles, Good and Evil, Light and Darkness, locked, in permanent conflict (Dualism, Manichaeism). According to some of these conceptions, the world (at least the physical world) is evil, the product of a fall, and is thus to be rejected or left behind (Gnosticism). Some admit that the world was made by God, but as by a watch-maker who, once he has made a watch, abandons it to itself (Deism). Finally, others reject any transcendent origin for the world, but see it as merely the interplay of matter that has always existed (Materialism). All these attempts bear witness to the permanence and universality of the question of origins. This inquiry is distinctively human.

    390 The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.


    And then some relevant and more specific commentary:

    For these reasons the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter - for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God.
    Humani Generis

    According to the widely accepted scientific account, the universe erupted 15 billion years ago in an explosion called the 'Big Bang' and has been expanding and cooling ever since. Later there gradually emerged the conditions necessary for the formation of atoms, still later the condensation of galaxies and stars, and about 10 billion years later the formation of planets. In our own solar system and on earth (formed about 4.5 billion years ago), the conditions have been favorable to the emergence of life. While there is little consensus among scientists about how the origin of this first microscopic life is to be explained, there is general agreement among them that the first organism dwelt on this planet about 3.5–4 billion years ago. Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution. Pope Benedict 16

    "God is not... a magician, but the Creator who brought everything to life,” Francis said. “Evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve.” Pope Francis
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  5. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Well-Known Member

    902
    +206
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    When I left the RCC I checked out quite a few churches and for awhile I was going to both my LCMS church and the ND nearby. The ND church gave me sensory overload with the lights, music fog machine (yes they had a fog machine), etc.
     
  6. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Well-Known Member

    902
    +206
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    Thanks for your reply. I was reading up on some of the stuff I’d read here that bothered me, on an unnamed Christian site (not willing to incite a debate about the site I was on, but it’s one of three I read) and the scientists there have an entirely different perspective. So it’s all good. I’m fine and going to stay put. In fact, later this afternoon I’m going to church to help decorate for Easter, which I’ve really been looking forward to.
    Decorating for Easter will be fun and will give me an opportunity to meet more people.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  7. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

    885
    +299
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Greetings.

    There may be better reasons for choosing a church than their stance on evolution. Plus, you cannot be sure that evolution is true or not. If the Bible clearly states that God created everything after its own kind, and then you disagree, does that mean you think the Bible is wrong? If so, what other things in the Bible will you dismiss?

    Regarding six days of creation, Genesis 1::1-31, God created everything after its own kind. So many different variations of canines, with the ability to adapt to their situations, but all from the same kind. The same with all creatures.

    A book I found helpful on this subject is:

    "The Genesis Flood: The Biblical Record and its Scientific Implications" by John C. Whitcomb and Henry M. Morris.

    Another good book to consider is:

    "in six days" by John F. Ashton PhD

    Blessings
     
  8. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Well-Known Member

    902
    +206
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    Thanks!
     
  9. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

    +1,136
    Catholic
    Married
    Catholic.
     
  10. PaulCyp1

    PaulCyp1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +818
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    So basically you are saying that you don't want to accept objective truth, but just want a church that will accept and teach what you want to hear, whether true or untrue? Jesus Christ clearly demonstrated that He was God, by constantly doing things only God could do. He, God, founded one Church, said it was to remain one, and promised that one Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". That one Church has taught the fullness of His truth consistently for 2,000 years. You had the privilege of being raised in that one Church, yet decided to reject God's truth for one of the thousands of conflicting manmade churches that have abandoned much of His truth, one that preaches what you want to hear. Sad.
     
  11. Silverback

    Silverback Well-Known Member

    +685
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    That's a bit unfair don't you think, the Catholic church is not without controversy, and has had a few splits and divisions of it's own over the centuries...just say'n.
     
  12. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +29,451
    Anglican
    Married
    And the RCC itself changed its mind on Evolution, just as it did with Abortion, Divorce and Remarriage, Papal Infallibility, Women serving in the liturgy, and Purgatory.
     
  13. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

    +42,473
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    Hello @Hope1960, my denomination, the Evangelical Free Church of America, is a very conservative Christian denomination, and we used to be exclusively YEC, but now we hold to a position "of silence" concerning the age of the universe. IOW, you can find conservative Christian denominations that are YEC and/or TE (as I'm sure others have told you above, though I have not read through this thread).

    While I am YEC, and in many ways wish that we had not changed our denominational position on that, we did the same thing concerning Calvinism and Arminianism (which resulted in more productive discussions and far less heated debates between our congregants .. and elders ;) .. who hold opposing views, which, so far at least, seems to be a very positive thing overall).

    If you'd care to read our position on YEC/TE, go here and click on, "Does the EFCA have a position on the age of the universe, either young-earth or old-earth?"

    God bless you!

    --David
     
  14. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,552
    Sweden
    Christian
    Private
    I don't think this should be a dividing point. If they accept your view on creation and you accept theirs, then I see no problem.

    I'm protestant of no speific denomination.
     
  15. Bruce Leiter

    Bruce Leiter A sinner saved by God's astounding grace and love

    626
    +445
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    My advice is that you not judge the church on that issue, which allows Christians some latitude. The one I use to determine whether to join a church is whether their doctrines are biblical or not. The interpretation of Genesis 1-2 has some freedom of interpretation depending on which elements you emphasize.
     
  16. lsume

    lsume Well-Known Member Supporter

    +538
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I’m not sure of your educational background but there is a book named “The Science of God” written by a physics professor who got his degrees from MIT. Perhaps you might find it informative.
     
  17. JSRG

    JSRG Active Member

    382
    +186
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Depends somewhat on the church. Some are more interesting than others.

    If we're sticking with Lutheranism, I know the LCMS and WELS reject evolution, while the ELCA accepts it. I believe the largest after those three groups is the NALC (North American Lutheran Church) which falls between the ELCA and LCMS in the conservative/liberal "line"; actually, the NALC was founded about a decade ago out of some ELCA churches dissatisfied with the more liberal positions the ELCA was taking, especially on homosexuality. Not sure what their position is on evolution, though; their silence on it indicates they don't have one, i.e. they're neutral. They're also a lot smaller than those four, but I suppose you could see if there's any near you...
     
  18. Anthony2019

    Anthony2019 Pax et bonum! CF Ambassadors Supporter

    +8,911
    United Kingdom
    Anglican
    Single
    Church of England (Anglican) and I would say that the majority of people I know in the church believe in theistic evolution.
     
  19. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Well-Known Member

    902
    +206
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    We decorated two large crosses with flowers. One goes up on the stage, the other wiil be outside where congregants can add their own flowers to memorialize a loved one or just for themselves.
     
  20. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Well-Known Member

    902
    +206
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    MIT? Probably over my head. Unless he has the ability to talk to us regular folk.
     
Loading...