Denominations

[FaithT]

I was referring to the freedom of being able to acknowledge and embrace observations of physical reality. If you're new to old earth creationism, it will make sense with time.

I was always an old earther. Still am. Like I said, my pastor and the person (pastor, I think) he consulted to ease my mind about this are both ok with it.

 

[FaithT]

I was always an old earther. Still am. Like I said, my pastor and the person (pastor, I think) he consulted to ease my mind about this are both ok with it.

I do think it’s possible though, that the earth isn’t billions of years old, or 6,000 years old.

 

[FaithT]

More on that.

I remember many moons ago when I first started studying geology.

Sometimes just seeing is believing. And there were days where I just cried out to the Lord, or maybe it was the holy spirit groaning through me. Because creation, when you see it in full, it does not lie. It tells God's word with pure clarity.

Part of me felt betrayed. How could I have been so blind? How could the church even have made such grave mistakes. Was I lied to? We were less perfect than I could ever have imagined.

It has taken many years of continued study, continued trips, continued digging. Pondering endless questions. Freedom and peace with the understanding of billions of years of deep and rich earth history took time to come to terms with. But when it is seen in full, God is great.

You have that you’re a Christian in your profile, but what Christian denomination are you?

 

[FaithT]

These are some Catholic teachings, quite general, on origins, in case you haven't seen them:

282 Catechesis on creation is of major importance. It concerns the very foundations of human and Christian life: for it makes explicit the response of the Christian faith to the basic question that men of all times have asked themselves:120 "Where do we come from?" "Where are we going?" "What is our origin?" "What is our end?" "Where does everything that exists come from and where is it going?" The two questions, the first about the origin and the second about the end, are inseparable. They are decisive for the meaning and orientation of our life and actions.

283 The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers. With Solomon they can say: "It is he who gave me unerring knowledge of what exists, to know the structure of the world and the activity of the elements. . . for wisdom, the fashioner of all things, taught me."121

284 The great interest accorded to these studies is strongly stimulated by a question of another order, which goes beyond the proper domain of the natural sciences. It is not only a question of knowing when and how the universe arose physically, or when man appeared, but rather of discovering the meaning of such an origin: is the universe governed by chance, blind fate, anonymous necessity, or by a transcendent, intelligent and good Being called "God"? And if the world does come from God's wisdom and goodness, why is there evil? Where does it come from? Who is responsible for it? Is there any liberation from it?

285 Since the beginning the Christian faith has been challenged by responses to the question of origins that differ from its own. Ancient religions and cultures produced many myths concerning origins. Some philosophers have said that everything is God, that the world is God, or that the development of the world is the development of God (Pantheism). Others have said that the world is a necessary emanation arising from God and returning to him. Still others have affirmed the existence of two eternal principles, Good and Evil, Light and Darkness, locked, in permanent conflict (Dualism, Manichaeism). According to some of these conceptions, the world (at least the physical world) is evil, the product of a fall, and is thus to be rejected or left behind (Gnosticism). Some admit that the world was made by God, but as by a watch-maker who, once he has made a watch, abandons it to itself (Deism). Finally, others reject any transcendent origin for the world, but see it as merely the interplay of matter that has always existed (Materialism). All these attempts bear witness to the permanence and universality of the question of origins. This inquiry is distinctively human.

390 The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.


And then some relevant and more specific commentary:

For these reasons the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter - for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God. Humani Generis

According to the widely accepted scientific account, the universe erupted 15 billion years ago in an explosion called the 'Big Bang' and has been expanding and cooling ever since. Later there gradually emerged the conditions necessary for the formation of atoms, still later the condensation of galaxies and stars, and about 10 billion years later the formation of planets. In our own solar system and on earth (formed about 4.5 billion years ago), the conditions have been favorable to the emergence of life. While there is little consensus among scientists about how the origin of this first microscopic life is to be explained, there is general agreement among them that the first organism dwelt on this planet about 3.5–4 billion years ago. Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution. Pope Benedict 16

"God is not... a magician, but the Creator who brought everything to life,” Francis said. “Evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve.” Pope Francis

Yes, but I have no desire to return to the Catholic Church.

 

[Job 33:6]

You have that you’re a Christian in your profile, but what Christian denomination are you?

My Church is non denominational and I think it suits me well.

 

[fhansen]

Yes, but I have no desire to return to the Catholic Church.

I didn't suggest otherwise. My purpose was to at least present Catholic teachings accurately.

 

[FaithT]

My Church is non denominational and I think it suits me well.

I went to a ND church for awhile, just to check it out but they have their beliefs,too.

 

[teddyv]

I grew up in, and still attend the Christian Reformed Church, from the Dutch Reformed tradition. With respect to being TE, I've never felt any pressure toward creationism, although there are more conservative elements depending on the congregation. Certainly the denominationally-supported college, Calvin College, has several noted adherents of TE. The CRC has always had a fairly strong level of academics.

 

[Buzzard3]

I joined the Lutheran LCMS two or so years ago but they don’t accept evolution

Do they accept the scientific evidence that suggests life existed on earth well before (maybe millions of years before) Adam was created?

 

[JSRG]

Do they accept the scientific evidence that suggests life existed on earth well before (maybe millions of years before) Adam was created?

From their website:

We teach that God has created heaven and earth, and that in the manner and in the space of time recorded in the Holy Scriptures, especially Gen. 1 and 2, namely, by His almighty creative word, and in six days. We reject every doctrine which denies or limits the work of creation as taught in Scripture. In our days it is denied or limited by those who assert, ostensibly in deference to science, that the world came into existence through a process of evolution; that is, that it has, in immense periods of time, developed more or less of itself. Since no man was present when it pleased God to create the world, we must look for a reliable account of creation to God's own record, found in God's own book, the Bible. We accept God's own record with full confidence and confess with Luther's Catechism: "I believe that God has made me and all creatures."

Source: Brief Statement of LCMS Doctrinal Position - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

In regards to what someone can believe about evolution while being a member of the church:

QUESTION: A person, because of his study of science, does not believe that the universe was created in six literal 24-hour periods. Does this fact, by itself, render this person ineligible for membership in the LCMS?

ANSWER: A person’s private views regarding this question do not automatically disqualify a person from becoming a member of the congregation.

It is possible, of course, that someone holding to a given theory about the “six days” of the creation accounts also holds to views about the Bible that would be troublesome and perhaps in some cases detrimental to saving faith.

But judgments in this regard belong in the realm of individual pastoral care, and are not a matter of hard and fast rules so that someone’s personal opinions in this area would become in effect a kind of litmus test for membership.

It has generally been taught in our church that unless there is a compelling reason, on the basis of the biblical texts themselves, to understand the six days of the Genesis accounts as anything other than normal 24-hour days, we are to believe that God created the world in six 24-hour days (see Luther’s Small Catechism with Explanation, Question 97 [Concordia Publishing House, 1986, p. 106]).

Official members of the LCMS (congregations, pastors, rostered church workers), of course, pledge to honor and uphold the official position of the Synod on doctrinal issues, including its official position on creation.

Source: The Bible - Frequently Asked Questions - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

 

[FaithT]

Update: I’m still going to the LCMS and now love it.

 

[setst777]

Update: I’m still going to the LCMS and now love it.

The Lutheran Church, Missouri or Wisconsin synod, have quality services without a lot of fluff. Just God's Word being preached. While I do believe the Scriptures clearly teach baptism after one believes, I see nothing wrong with baptizing infants with the intent that, by this gesture, the parents are dedicating their lives to raising their child to know God and the Gospel. But the choice is still the child's to either believe or not to believe, and so be saved. And that commitment of faith to Lord Jesus is what Baptism represents - the dying to the old life serving our own passions, and now dedicating our lives to be disciples of Lord Jesus in righteousness and love.

John 3:14:18 (WEB) 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes (continuous believing) in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes (continuous believing) in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes (continuous believing) in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Romans 6:1-6 (WEB) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will also be part of his resurrection; 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be in bondage to sin.

 

[Buzzard3]

The Lutheran Church, Missouri or Wisconsin synod, have quality services without a lot of fluff. Just God's Word being preached. While I do believe the Scriptures clearly teach baptism after one believes, I see nothing wrong with baptizing infants with the intent that, by this gesture, the parents are dedicating their lives to raising their child to know God and the Gospel. But the choice is still the child's to either believe or not to believe, and so be saved. And that commitment of faith to Lord Jesus is what Baptism represents - the dying to the old life serving our own passions, and now dedicating our lives to be disciples of Lord Jesus in righteousness and love.

John 3:14:18 (WEB) 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes (continuous believing) in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes (continuous believing) in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes (continuous believing) in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Romans 6:1-6 (WEB) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will also be part of his resurrection; 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be in bondage to sin.

No need to debate it - all you have to know is that the Catholic Church practises infant baptism, so it must be okay.

 

[setst777]

No need to debate it - all you have to know is that the Catholic Church practises infant baptism, so it must be okay.

It's okay if your faith is in the Catholic Church. That is your choice.

True, the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth, and that Truth is Lord Jesus and His Words in writing by the Command of the Eternal God.

Romans 16:25-27 (NIV) 25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith — 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

My faith is in Lord Jesus and all he revealed to us in the Gospels, Epistles, and Revelations. Only His words lead to eternal life.

Romans 4:6 (NIV) I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.