Denominations that teach that salvation is exclusive to them

[BobRyan]

No, it is the same teaching. Post VII the Church focuses more on eccumanism (that's the policy change you are talking about). But none of the teachings from Trent are put aside. The CCC doesn't focus on anathemas and such, so as a result you get people who misinterpret the CCC and arrive at strange ideas.

As I understand it - The change to "Separated brethren" is not from Trent. A lot of Catholics themselves strongly objected to the changes in Vatican II.

Trent placed dissenters under "anathema". To be placed under anathema was to be outside the Catholic church and meant that you could not have a Christian burial.

Protesting groups were excommunicated which placed them outside the Catholic Church during the protestant reformation appeared to make them suppose they were not saved any longer.

extra Ecclesiam nulla salus means "outside the Church there is no salvation". Cyprian of Carthage, a bishop of the third century. The axiom is often used as shorthand for the doctrine that the Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation prior to Vatican II.

 

[concretecamper]

As I understand it - The change to "Separated brethren" is not from Trent. A lot of Catholics themselves strongly objected to the changes in Vatican II.

I don't have a problem with the term separated. Anathema (cut off) is the same as separated, but separated sounds better

Trent placed dissenters under "anathema". To be placed under anathema was to be outside the Catholic church and meant that you could not have a Christian burial.

Vatican II hasn't changed any anathemas. What cut you off from the Church then, cuts you off from the Church now

Protesting groups were excommunicated which placed them outside the Catholic Church during the protestant reformation appeared to make them suppose they were not saved any longer.

What you were excommunicated for then, you are excommunicated now. No change.

extra Ecclesiam nulla salus means "outside the Church there is no salvation". Cyprian of Carthage, a bishop of the third century. The axiom is often used as shorthand for the doctrine that the Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation prior to Vatican II.

And the Church still teaches that.

If you would like to quote any CCC paragraphs, we can compare them with Trent

 

[splish- splash]

In Adventism, everyone else is a lost sheep unless they accept the sabbath truth. Mrs white through her writings, points out that Adventists have a duty to preach about, the sabbath truth to the world because at some point before Christ returns, His lost flock must have long joined the Adventist crew, if ever they ate going to see heaven.

Only they are yet to explain, how it is possible for one to be married to both Christ and the law together.

 

[ozso]

In Adventism, everyone else is a lost sheep unless they accept the sabbath truth. Mrs white through her writings, points out that Adventists have a duty to preach about, the sabbath truth to the world because at some point before Christ returns, His lost flock must have long joined the Adventist crew, if ever they ate going to see heaven.

Only they are yet to explain, how it is possible for one to be married to both Christ and the law together.

That's what I've ascertained in their prosthelytizing on CF. They manage to convey that pretty clearly without making a direct statement.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

In Adventism, everyone else is a lost sheep unless they accept the sabbath truth. Mrs white through her writings, points out that Adventists have a duty to preach about, the sabbath truth to the world because at some point before Christ returns, His lost flock must have long joined the Adventist crew, if ever they ate going to see heaven.

I believe God requires full obedience to Him- if we break one commandment, we break them all James 2:10-12. It’s not about one commandment, it’s about being in submission to the will of God. God‘s will is that we obey out of love- His law in our hearts and minds Psalms 40:8, Hebrews 8:10. The Sabbath is about our time, God asked us to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" Exodus 20:8 He did not start it off with thou shalt, but it still is a commandment. It's like a parent who asks their child to Remember to be home by Ten and when that child honors their parents by love, they will do what they ask. We honor God when we obey what He asks- Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy Exodus 20:8 because it is the day to honor the Lord on His holy day Exodus 20:10 Isaiah 58:13. God only asked for one day per week, the Sabbath to completely make the day about Him doing His ways Isaiah 58:13 and gives us 6 days to get all of our work and labors done Exodus 20:9

Only they are yet to explain, how it is possible for one to be married to both Christ and the law together.

The church/His bride is married to Christ, but the bride of Christ, His saints keep the law through love and faith Revelation 14:12, Romans 3:31, Exodus 20:6, John 14:15, Exodus 20:6 1 John 5:3 Revelation 22:14

It's like being married to a spouse- there are wedding vows one takes in order to be married- do we have the vow of being faithful to our spouse in our heart? God's people are in a covenant vow with God- He writes His laws in our hearts and minds. Hebrews 8:10, Hebrews 10:16- He is our God, we are His people.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I believe God requires full obedience to Him- if we break one commandment, we break them all James 2:10-12. It’s not about one commandment, it’s about being in submission to the will of God. God‘s will is that we obey out of love- His law in our hearts and minds Psalms 40:8, Hebrews 8:10. The Sabbath is about our time, God asked us to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" Exodus 20:8 He did not start it off with thou shalt, but it still is a commandment. It's like a parent who asks their child to Remember to be home by Ten and when that child honors their parents by love, they will do what they ask. We honor God when we obey what He asks- Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy Exodus 20:8 because it is the day to honor the Lord on His holy day Exodus 20:10 Isaiah 58:13. God only asked for one day per week, the Sabbath to completely make the day about Him doing His ways Isaiah 58:13 and gives us 6 days to get all of our work and labors done Exodus 20:9


The church/His bride is married to Christ, but the bride of Christ, His saints keep the law through love and faith Revelation 14:12, Romans 3:31, Exodus 20:6, John 14:15, Exodus 20:6 1 John 5:3 Revelation 22:14

It's like being married to a spouse- there are wedding vows one takes in order to be married- do we have the vow of being faithful to our spouse in our heart? God's people are in a covenant vow with God- He writes His laws in our hearts and minds. Hebrews 8:10, Hebrews 10:16- He is our God, we are His people.

That is really heartwrenching. Heaven will be quite an empty place with the lake of fire overflowing with the billions of people, all of whom are guilty of breaking God's commandments. That includes yourself and all of your denomination simply because you have willfully determined to substitute nineteenth-century Protestant American religious practices in place of the God-specified Sabbath ordinances.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That is really heartwrenching. Heaven will be quite an empty place with the lake of fire overflowing with the billions of people, all of whom are guilty of breaking God's commandments. That includes yourself and all of your denomination simply because you have willfully determined to substitute nineteenth-century Protestant American religious practices in place of the God-specified Sabbath ordinances.

These are not anyone else's Words but God and according to God it is a commandment and they are written by His own finger. Exodus 31:18, Exodus 32:16, Exodus 20 and we cannot add or subtract from His commandments Deut 4:2 so your argument does not appear to be with anyone in the nineteenth century but what is written by God's own finger.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

I do not think heaven will be empty, there are millions and millions of people who uphold His commandments, and the invitation is open to all. While we are not saved by law-keeping, we are saved by grace through our faith- those who have faith in God keep His commandments. Romans 3:31, Revelation 22:14, Revelation 14:12 and the Sabbath is not something that will ever end Isaiah 66:23 Exodus 31:16

 

[boughtwithaprice]

1. The Bible - that is authored by the Holy Spirit according to 1 Peter 1:19-20 (Peter is a good one to listen to on this point)
2. And the Holy Spirit that "Guides into all truth" as John 16 states such that "you need for no one to teach you" 1 John 2 as the Apostle John states. Funny thing is - that is also what the New Covenant states - Jer 31:31-34

And the fact that some folks have hardened their heart to the point of the unpardonable sin - does not negate that part of the Word of God - you cannot dismiss scripture and the Holy Spirit so easily.

You keep saying that it is the Bible and the Holy Spirit that you rely on, but that is not completely true. Many people pray and read the Bible, but do not come to the same conclusions that you do, yet your denomination claims teaching authority. Where does that authority come from, and how do we know that it is true? I know that the Bible is true. How do I know your teaching on it is true?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You keep saying that it is the Bible and the Holy Spirit that you rely on, but that is not completely true. Many people pray and read the Bible, but do not come to the same conclusions that you do, yet your denomination claims teaching authority. Where does that authority come from, and how do we know that it is true? I know that the Bible is true. How do I know your teaching on it is true?

The SDA's claim the authority comes from the Word of God. Yes, there are many people who believe many things, but there is only one Truth from scripture, and we know it's true because God says so. John 17:17.

For example, God said we cannot add or subtract to His commandments Deut 4:2 yet many people do and still think they are following God's Word- but God's Word says something different. We either believe God's Word is True or we don't and that's where the problem lies....there is no need to edit any of God's commandments because every Word of God is pure and a shield. Proverbs 30:5-6 and His commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151 but yet people don't follow God's written Word or do in an edited version.

 

[bbbbbbb]

These are not anyone else's Words but God and according to God it is a commandment and they are written by His own finger. Exodus 31:18, Exodus 32:16, Exodus 20 and we cannot add or subtract from His commandments Deut 4:2 so your argument does not appear to be with anyone in the nineteenth century but what is written by God's own finger.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

I do not think heaven will be empty, there are millions and millions of people who uphold His commandments, and the invitation is open to all. While we are not saved by law-keeping, we are saved by grace through our faith- those who have faith in God keep His commandments. Romans 3:31, Revelation 22:14, Revelation 14:12 and the Sabbath is not something that will ever end Isaiah 66:23 Exodus 31:16

Therein lies the great pity. You and the other members of your denomination willfully and flagrantly have chosen to substitute nineteenth-century American Protestant religious activities for the actual, biblical Sabbath. Therefore, you stand condemned before a holy and righteous God.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You keep saying that it is the Bible and the Holy Spirit that you rely on, but that is not completely true. Many people pray and read the Bible, but do not come to the same conclusions that you do, yet your denomination claims teaching authority. Where does that authority come from, and how do we know that it is true? I know that the Bible is true. How do I know your teaching on it is true?

Ummm, because Ellen White said so. It is not much different than the RCC where what the Pope says (ex cathedra) is complete and infallible truth.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Therein lies the great pity. You and the other members of your denomination willfully and flagrantly have chosen to substitute nineteenth-century American Protestant religious activities for the actual, biblical Sabbath.

God in His own Words tells us when is the biblical Sabbath in concise written and spoken Words….

Exodus 20:10 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

And then reminds us we cannot edit His commandments Deut 4:2

 

[bbbbbbb]

God in His own Words tells us the biblical Sabbath in concise written and spoken Words….

Exodus 20:10 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

And then reminds us we cannot edit His commandments Deut 4:2


Well to be fair so far I have only posted God’s Word Exodus 20:8-11 Deut 4:2 John 17:17, Psalms 119:151 Isaiah 58:13, Isaiah 66:23 Luke 4:16, Mark 2:27 Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 5:19-30 Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14-15, Romans 7:12 1 John 5:3, 1 John 2:3-5 and so far you have only posted your own words. Only God can condemn. I’ll leave it as we will have to agree to disagree.

There really is no point in further discussion. The SDA has conveniently and willfully chosen to ignore all but ten of God's commandments in the Old Testament and then has proceeded to substitute a form of religious observance for the blessing of resting from all work, whether on the seventh day of the week, the seventh year of the Sabbatical cycle or the Year of Jubilee.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There really is no point in further discussion. The SDA has conveniently and willfully chosen to ignore all but ten of God's commandments in the Old Testament and then has proceeded to substitute a form of religious observance for the blessing of resting from all work, whether on the seventh day of the week, the seventh year of the Sabbatical cycle or the Year of Jubilee.

God knows the truth and that is what matters.

God bless.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Ummm, because Ellen White said so. It is not much different than the RCC where what the Pope says (ex cathedra) is complete and infallible truth.

Its very different. The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ Himself, and His authority is passed down to each generation through apostolic succession. Ellen White was not ordained. All the other denominations think that they know the Bible better than anyone else, but that just means that they claim authority to themselves and try to say it is from God, but it is only human reasoning. Peter was given the keys to the kingdom of Heaven and the authority of binding and loosing. Ellen White was not given that authority, but she claimed it for herself, as do all others that rebel against apostolic authority.
Jesus said that if you love Him, you would obey His commandments, not make up those of your own. The Sabbath is part or the Old covenant given to the nation of Israel. You never see Jesus preaching, "obey the Sabbath". He says that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. He also says that He is Lord of the Sabbath. This makes worship of Jesus more important than gathering on Saturday. The commandments of the New Covenant are contained in Matthew chapter 5-7, and they are more strict than the original ten commandments. Observance of the sabbath is not mentioned in those chapters, yet sexual morality is. Jesus says that if one even looks at a woman with lust, he has committed adultery, and that we are commanded not to do
SDA says don't worry about adultery, contraception is ok, even though it desecrates the marital act and reduces it to animal lust. We don't need to worry, because we worship on Saturday. Wrong. One cannot go against the authority given the apostles to over emphasize one rule and ignore the rest. Jesus never taught that.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the most Biblically well thought out presentation of Christian morality ever written. I have yet to see a protestant teaching even comes close

 

[concretecamper]

Many people pray and read the Bible, but do not come to the same conclusions that you do

That's because Jesus tells us to listen to the Church. All who follow Christ's command are united in One Body, His Body.

Listening only to the Bible is a man made idea. And it is a fatal idea resulting in 10s of thousands of protestant sects.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Its very different. The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ Himself,

Do you have scripture that says Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church? We are known by our fruits, and the Church Christ found is a remnant according to the scripture which is a small remainder of the original that keep God’s commandments. Revelation 12:17, Revelation 14:12

and His authority is passed down to each generation through apostolic succession. Ellen White was not ordained. All the other denominations think that they know the Bible better than anyone else, but that just means that they claim authority to themselves and try to say it is from God, but it is only human reasoning. Peter was given the keys to the kingdom of Heaven and the authority of binding and loosing.

The apostles were commanded to teach everything Jesus commanded and observed. Matthew 28:20. Jesus taught on the Ten Commandments John 15:10 John 15:1, Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 5:19-30 and kept the commandments that of course included the Sabbath commandment Luke 4:16 and Jesus is our example to follow 1 John 2:6 which is why the apostles kept the Sabbath decades after Jesus ascended back to heaven Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44, Acts 18:4 and taught on the commandments of God all throughout the NT- just a few example 1 Cor 7:19, James 2:10-12, John 14:15 1 John 2:3-6 Eph 6:2, Romans 7:12

Ellen White was not given that authority, but she claimed it for herself, as do all others that rebel against apostolic authority.
Jesus said that if you love Him, you would obey His commandments, not make up those of your own. The Sabbath is part or the Old covenant given to the nation of Israel.

Your own church doesn’t teach this so not sure why you are teaching something different than the church you belong to. The Sabbath is part of God’s Ten Commandments that are eternal. God said not to add or subtract from His commandments Deut 4:2, but the RCC takes credit for changing the commandments not on biblical authority but their own authority which is not above God.

Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174

Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God... The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.'
—Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.

You never see Jesus preaching, "obey the Sabbath". He says that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Yes, the Sabbath was made for mankind. Man was created on the 6th day Genesis 1:26 right before the first Sabbath Genesis 2:1-3 celebrated in the presence of God before sin entered. Once sin and sinners are destroyed once and for all, man will once again worship before the Lord every Sabbath Isaiah 66:23 becuase God promised His Sabbath would never end. Exodus 31:16

He also says that He is Lord of the Sabbath. This makes worship of Jesus more important than gathering on Saturday. The commandments of the New Covenant are contained in Matthew chapter 5-7, and they are more strict than the original ten commandments. Observance of the sabbath is not mentioned in those chapters, yet sexual morality is. Jesus says that if one even looks at a woman with lust, he has committed adultery, and that we are commanded not to do

Jesus said you break the least of these commandments quoting directly from the Ten and teach others to break these commandments, one will be least in heaven. Matthew 5:19-30. The Ten Commandments came in a unit of Ten written by God’s own finger Exodus 31:18, Exodus 34:28 , Exodus 32:16 and if we break one of these commandments we break them all James 2:10-12

SDA says don't worry about adultery, contraception is ok, even though it desecrates the marital act and reduces it to animal lust. We don't need to worry, because we worship on Saturday. Wrong. One cannot go against the authority given the apostles to over emphasize one rule and ignore the rest. Jesus never taught that.

The SDA church teaches on all of God’s Ten Commandments.

What Is the Law of God According to the Bible?

God’s law reflects His character, just, loving, and eternal. The Bible shows how His commandments bring freedom and life.

www.adventist.org

 

[ozso]

That's because Jesus tells us to listen to the Church. All who follow Christ's command are united in One Body, His Body.

Listening only to the Bible is a man made idea. And it is a fatal idea resulting in 10s of thousands of protestant sects.

The Church was pretty consistently Biblical for four centuries. Then extrabiblical things started to be added. Reading the Epistles especially is pretty much the same as listening to the Church as they are written to the Church by the Apostles to give the Church proper instruction and understanding.

 

[Valletta]

The Church was pretty consistently Biblical for four centuries. Then extrabiblical things started to be added. Reading the Epistles especially is pretty much the same as listening to the Church as they are written to the Church by the Apostles to give the Church proper instruction and understanding.

The source and summit of the Church, the Holy Mass and Holy Eucharist predated the Bible and have remained very much the same from the first century to today. The Church was present before the Bible--it was the Bible that was an addition to the Church. The Catholic Church chose the 73 books of the Bible and gave the Bible to the world in the late 300s. We certainly have obtained a greater understanding of God's Word over time, it has been so since the beginning of the Church.

 

[ozso]

The source and summit of the Church, the Holy Mass and Holy Eucharist predated the Bible and have remained very much the same from the first century to today. The Church was present before the Bible--it was the Bible that was an addition to the Church. The Catholic Church chose the 73 books of the Bible and gave the Bible to the world in the late 300s. We certainly have obtained a greater understanding of God's Word over time, it has been so since the beginning of the Church.

I should have said for the first four centuries the Chuch operated within the teachings and instructions given by the Lord Jesus Christ, through the writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, James, Jude and Paul.

Centuries later, after those writings, and after those writings were compiled into a single bound volume called "the Bible", the Church started coming up with new rules, ordinances, practices, rituals, traditions and doctrines that either did not exist or barely existed for several centuries, well beyond the time it would have taken the Church to have established a firm understanding of what their Lord Jesus Christ wanted of them and all that He wanted them to do.